NNE Cold Season Thread 2022/2023

[tamarack]

Had 2.2" of 7:1 snow in 3.5 hours before the change to rain about 8:15.  Sometime later (maybe at the end?) there was a tenth of IP.  Storm total 0.69" with 2.3" total with 0.36" LE.  Currently near 40 with the sun trying to break thru.

[wxeyeNH]

46F winds gusting to 36mph.  Nice snow melt day but still no grass showing even on South slopes.

[J.Spin]

6 hours ago, borderwx said:

Curious to see what tonight brings for the Mts

 

4 hours ago, bwt3650 said:

So if I’m reading this right….almost a half inch of liquid, good flow for the northern greens and a decent burst between midnight and dawn…6” would fix a lot of damage and make for a good weekend. Wind probably dumps most of that into the trees.

Since the snow surfaces will certainly tighten up with the way temperatures recently went above freezing, it seemed like this would be a weekend off the slopes, but the models suggest the Northern Greens have the potential to do their thing, so that could make a difference.  I’m getting questions from students about the mountain forecasts they’re seeing from the resorts, so it prompted me to look.  The BTV NWS isn’t seeing anything outrageous, although the discussion does mention how they flirted with the idea of a Winter Weather Advisory, but felt it wasn’t needed because the more substantial accumulations would be above 1,500’.

…some spots could pick up over 4 inches, but given the 4 inch coverage is mainly confined to above 1500 ft and over a 12 to 24 hour period, opted against issuing a Winter Weather Advisory.

 I’m seeing 4-8” for some of the mountain point forecasts and a quick run through the models shows liquid equivalents from about 0.3” to as much as 1.0” on the CMC.  It looks like the location of where that modeled streamer sets up will dictate who gets into the higher tier liquid. Even a third to half an inch of L.E. would set things up fine for low and moderate angle terrain, so it should be fun to see what the snow reports say.  It’s intriguing enough that I’ll probably get the gear ready.

[borderwx]

Digging into the gear pile to find the skate skis, should be a good weekend to scare myself on skinnies


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[powderfreak]

1 hour ago, J.Spin said:

 

Since the snow surfaces will certainly tighten up with the way temperatures recently went above freezing, it seemed like this would be a weekend off the slopes, but the models suggest the Northern Greens have the potential to do their thing, so that could make a difference.  I’m getting questions from students about the mountain forecasts they’re seeing from the resorts, so it prompted me to look.  The BTV NWS isn’t seeing anything outrageous, although the discussion does mention how they flirted with the idea of a Winter Weather Advisory, but felt it wasn’t needed because the more substantial accumulations would be above 1,500’.

…some spots could pick up over 4 inches, but given the 4 inch coverage is mainly confined to above 1500 ft and over a 12 to 24 hour period, opted against issuing a Winter Weather Advisory.

 I’m seeing 4-8” for some of the mountain point forecasts and a quick run through the models shows liquid equivalents from about 0.3” to as much as 1.0” on the CMC.  It looks like the location of where that modeled streamer sets up will dictate who gets into the higher tier liquid. Even a third to half an inch of L.E. would set things up fine for low and moderate angle terrain, so it should be fun to see what the snow reports say.  It’s intriguing enough that I’ll probably get the gear ready.

Yeah there’s a Front sagging south with some energy riding in and where that front intersects the terrain should do the best.

I like 2-4”.  I don’t think ratios will be anything to write home about but it’s not snowfall that matters but frozen QPF on top of the newly forming crust.  Whether 0.30” brings 2” or 6”, it’s that heft or water that’ll keep us off the surface layer.

[mreaves]

There was 5-6” when we left Limestone around 9:30 this morning. Snow let up fora while and started again around 2:00. Snowed at a decent clip all the way back to the hotel. Maybe 8” not real sure. Still snowing when we went to dinner. 

[powderfreak]

52 minutes ago, mreaves said:

There was 5-6” when we left Limestone around 9:30 this morning. Snow let up fora while and started again around 2:00. Snowed at a decent clip all the way back to the hotel. Maybe 8” not real sure. Still snowing when we went to dinner. 

Winter. The latitude matters…northern Maine is a different area.

[Patriot21]

1 hour ago, mreaves said:

There was 5-6” when we left Limestone around 9:30 this morning. Snow let up fora while and started again around 2:00. Snowed at a decent clip all the way back to the hotel. Maybe 8” not real sure. Still snowing when we went to dinner. 

I've never been that way before, does it still feel "New Englandy"?  Village  churches, stone walls, that type of stuff? 

In my mind I break down VT, NH and southern half of Maine as Northern New England, and above that is Northern Maine. It just appears to be its own world, but I've never been there, all speculation. Either that or VT, NH and southern half of Maine is Central New England, and Northern Maine gets the sole title of Northern New England. Of course this is all breaking it down from the common VT, NH and ME making up Northern New England. 

[mreaves]

1 hour ago, Patriot21 said:

I've never been that way before, does it still feel "New Englandy"?  Village  churches, stone walls, that type of stuff? 

In my mind I break down VT, NH and southern half of Maine as Northern New England, and above that is Northern Maine. It just appears to be its own world, but I've never been there, all speculation. Either that or VT, NH and southern half of Maine is Central New England, and Northern Maine gets the sole title of Northern New England. Of course this is all breaking it down from the common VT, NH and ME making up Northern New England. 

I would say there are those similarities. The biggest difference is the landscape. It’s really open. It’s not flat but there aren’t the steep hills and deep valleys like VT and NH. There are gigantic fields like you don’t see anywhere in VT anywhere else in NE that I know of.  It is definitely worth visiting, especially if you like outdoor recreation. 

[bwt3650]

3 plus down so far…after a lull, it has picked up again. Hopefully, we should pull 6 out of this. It’s heavy, wet, slop right now. With the temp expected to drop another 5 by morning, would be nice if we could get the last 2 to lighten up. Should be decent tomorrow. Nice save by the fake snow.


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[Patriot21]

7 hours ago, mreaves said:

I would say there are those similarities. The biggest difference is the landscape. It’s really open. It’s not flat but there aren’t the steep hills and deep valleys like VT and NH. There are gigantic fields like you don’t see anywhere in VT anywhere else in NE that I know of.  It is definitely worth visiting, especially if you like outdoor recreation. 

I will have to get up there one day to see that. I love the geography here but always good to see something new. 

[bwt3650]

Finished with just about 5.5” at 1900’. Safe to assume there’s 7 up top. It thumped pretty good from 1-3am. Pack is strong…for now.






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[tamarack]

13 hours ago, Patriot21 said:

I've never been that way before, does it still feel "New Englandy"?  Village  churches, stone walls, that type of stuff? 

In my mind I break down VT, NH and southern half of Maine as Northern New England, and above that is Northern Maine. It just appears to be its own world, but I've never been there, all speculation. Either that or VT, NH and southern half of Maine is Central New England, and Northern Maine gets the sole title of Northern New England. Of course this is all breaking it down from the common VT, NH and ME making up Northern New England. 

Eastern Aroostook looks like the Midwest but with more hills, and the Downeast accent is rarely heard there.  The St. John Valley is surrounded by decent size hills, but the major difference is culture, as 90%+ of the people have French ancestry, some from Acadia and some from Quebec.  One frequently hears French spoken, though it's significantly different from that spoken in Paris.  West of Route 11 is mostly commercial forest land with paved roads becoming gravel logging roads a few miles west of that highway.  There are significant hills in that area, with Deboullie probably the most rugged area - elevation tops out near 2000' so far less than Greens/Whites but also far more remote.

Winter. The latitude matters…northern Maine is a different area.

Our 1973 move from NNJ to BGR, 390 straight-line miles and nearly 4° latitude, meant a significant change in climate.  Three years later we moved to Fort Kent, 170 miles and 2.5°, and that climate change was at least twice as much as from the earlier move.

[mreaves]

Left Maine today. Had a great time. Taking the northern route home through Canada because I’ve never been through that part of NB and PQ. Lots of snow where we were staying. Big banks. 

[tombo82685]

Had .7 over night from some lake enhancement. Snow pack got obliterated Thursday with mid 40s and dews in mid 30s and an inch of rain. About 3” left on the ground, down from 20” last weekend 

[DavisStraight]

5 hours ago, tamarack said:

Eastern Aroostook looks like the Midwest but with more hills, and the Downeast accent is rarely heard there.  The St. John Valley is surrounded by decent size hills, but the major difference is culture, as 90%+ of the people have French ancestry, some from Acadia and some from Quebec.  One frequently hears French spoken, though it's significantly different from that spoken in Paris.  West of Route 11 is mostly commercial forest land with paved roads becoming gravel logging roads a few miles west of that highway.  There are significant hills in that area, with Deboullie probably the most rugged area - elevation tops out near 2000' so far less than Greens/Whites but also far more remote.

Winter. The latitude matters…northern Maine is a different area.

Our 1973 move from NNJ to BGR, 390 straight-line miles and nearly 4° latitude, meant a significant change in climate.  Three years later we moved to Fort Kent, 170 miles and 2.5°, and that climate change was at least twice as much as from the earlier move.

My father's side of the family is from Quebec and the whole family always spoke French at home growing up. My father was in France when he was in the Air Force and said he couldn't understand them, and they couldn't understand him. He got by but he said it was like a different language.

[mcglups]

Driving from the shoreline in Rhode Island up to Coös County in New Hampshire it feels like many zones of weather, too many to count! After passing Concord and entering the lakes and mountain region is where I get the sense that NNE starts to begin. However, the northern part of Coös where not too many people live, is definitely in its own rugged definition of NNE. It is pretty amazing to cruise up that way in the continuous hills and mountains and then enter Canada and it is flat as a lake (after going downhill!).

[mreaves]

Ice floes on St. Lawrence north of Quebec City. Not a great pic but I was going 100 kph. 

[Patriot21]

19 hours ago, tamarack said:

Eastern Aroostook looks like the Midwest but with more hills, and the Downeast accent is rarely heard there.  The St. John Valley is surrounded by decent size hills, but the major difference is culture, as 90%+ of the people have French ancestry, some from Acadia and some from Quebec.  One frequently hears French spoken, though it's significantly different from that spoken in Paris.  West of Route 11 is mostly commercial forest land with paved roads becoming gravel logging roads a few miles west of that highway.  There are significant hills in that area, with Deboullie probably the most rugged area - elevation tops out near 2000' so far less than Greens/Whites but also far more remote.

Winter. The latitude matters…northern Maine is a different area.

Our 1973 move from NNJ to BGR, 390 straight-line miles and nearly 4° latitude, meant a significant change in climate.  Three years later we moved to Fort Kent, 170 miles and 2.5°, and that climate change was at least twice as much as from the earlier.

Thank you for the information. The language difference is most interesting to me. I wonder if speaking that version/dialect of French is going to continue with the younger generations or if it will get lost anytime soon. Seem like such a unique area.

[tamarack]

48 minutes ago, Patriot21 said:

Thank you for the information. The language difference is most interesting to me. I wonder if speaking that version/dialect of French is going to continue with the younger generations or if it will get lost anytime soon. Seem like such a unique area.

In the mid 20th century there were efforts to have the kids speak only English at school, and the French were often subject to discrimination outside of the St. John Valley.  In recent decades, the French (especially the Acadians) have been celebrated.

[J.Spin]

The back side of this most recent storm cycle seemed to show some promising potential for upslope snow in the Northern Greens, so yesterday morning I made a quick survey of the snow reports from the resorts along the northern spine to see how things had worked out.  With the Jay Peak snow report indicating 4 to 7 inches of new snow, and bwt’s measurement of 5.5 inches at 1,900’ from his place at Jay Peak, things were looking good there.  Bolton, Smugg’s, and Stowe were reporting totals in the 2 to 4-inch range, so the Jay Peak area really seemed to be a cut above the other resorts.  Temperatures rose above freezing in some areas during the middle of that storm though, so maximizing that resurfacing snow/liquid equivalent could make a substantial difference in the quality of the ski surfaces.

My wife was heading up to Morrisville to deliver some food to a colleague and do some snowshoeing, so I decided to pop up to the Jay Peak area for a bit of touring, and we coordinated our trip.  New accumulations of snow were present everywhere from Waterbury on northward, but they really started to pick up once I got to Eden and points father north.  You could tell that the storm had hit harder up there.  With road maintenance and some sun, I was generally dealing with slushy accumulations on road surfaces, but those usual spots on Route 118 along Belvidere Pond and through the notch areas into Montgomery were wall-to-wall winter snow and required some extra caution.

My tour was in the Big Jay Basin area that I’ve visited various times before, since it’s got convenient parking and some decent lower to moderate angle slopes along with its steeper lines.  It’s also got that leeward exposure from Jay Peak, Big Jay, and Little Jay, so it absolutely reels in the snow.  The past couple of times we’ve visited the basin, we’ve toured the terrain more toward the north side below Big Jay, but for this tour I decided to favor a bit more toward Little Jay to the south.  I’d heard good things from some of my students about the terrain there, so as skin tracks diverged on my ascent, I generally opted for those heading more southward toward Little Jay.  As I approached Little Jay, I could see that the terrain was getting steeper than I was looking for with the most recent accumulations, and slightly less pitched terrain was more prevalent off to the north, so I followed a skin track that was heading right through the terrain that looked the best for my plans.  That skin track brought me into that drainage below the col between Big Jay, and Little Jay, and the lower sections there do have some nice pitches that avoid the really steep stuff.  My goal was to get in a moderate tour’s worth of skiing and exercise with about 1,000’ of vertical, so with the trailhead elevation a bit shy of 1,600’, I was shooting to stop my ascent around 2,500-2,600’.  Once I’d hit that level, I contoured back toward the south a bit along the side of Little Jay to get into more untouched snow, and dropped in from there.

In terms of the snow quality, it far exceeded my expectations.  Accumulations of new snow were very much as expected – I measured about 5 inches of new snow around 1,600’ at the trailhead, and that matched up perfectly with what the resort and bwt had reported in the morning.  Accumulations probably increased by another inch about 1,000’ higher, but this didn’t appear to be one of those storms with heavy snow accumulation gains as elevation increased.  What impressed me most was when I encountered at least a couple feet of bottomless powder in the drainage below the col.  In that area, there were no signs that there had been any sort of significant warmth or rain.  It was great to watch all the skiers and riders out there taking advantage of the great snow, and their whoops and hollers could be all over the place throughout the basin, just as you’d expect with great conditions.  Aspect mattered in terms of snow quality though.  The farther I wrapped around Little Jay toward southern exposure, the more I was skiing on just the new snow, and there was actually a detectable layer atop the old snowpack.  Seeing this, I moved back toward the north as I descended in order to get into the best snow.  I just found it surprising that it was really only southern aspects where the snowpack had consolidated, because that would represent more effects from sun vs. general warmth.  Whatever the case, non-southerly aspects held some excellent bottomless powder out there. 

Temperatures on the day were perfect, with mid to upper 20s F keeping the snowpack wintry.  Skies were clear and sunny though, and you could tell that the mid-February sun was trying to work on that powder on southern exposures.  Temperatures seemed just cold enough, and/or the air was just dry enough, to keep that from happening.

It looks like we might have a system coming through the area tomorrow night that could do something similar to what the back side of this system did, so we’ll see if that adds another few inches to freshen things up again.

[powderfreak]

Another fun day out there.  Lots of hikers heading to the Chin for backcountry (side-country) laps.

[borderwx]

Pretty hard to hang your head to low this weekend. Good winter fun.


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[powderfreak]

23 minutes ago, borderwx said:

Pretty hard to hang your head to low this weekend. Good winter fun.


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What a view/scene.

[wxeyeNH]

I heard that in Vermont 3 people died this weekend falling through  ice.  Here in NH as far as I know Newfound Lake has only once not frozen over completely. That was fairly recently.  It looks like that may happen again.  We got close after the last cold wave but the lake has opened up since.  Time is running out even if we turn cold again.  The increasing sun angle  really works against lake ice growth.  Getting to that time of the year that even if it stays below freezing all day the sun starts eating into the snow banks and getting in the car is nice and warm. 

Snowcover wise I am still at near 100% but the first grass patches are opening up under my apple trees and on my steep facing south lawn.  My snow stake shows about 4" remaining.  

[STILL N OF PIKE]

Thought  central NH elevations were at a peak pack 10 days ago 

[powderfreak]

Weak system moving through tonight.

I think hills get 2-4”.

[wxeyeNH]

1 hour ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

Thought  central NH elevations were at a peak pack 10 days ago 

Yup,  I think right after my Jan 25th event

[DavisStraight]

1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

Weak system moving through tonight.

I think hills get 2-4”.

Trying to talk my wife into a weekend up north, might be only way to experience winter this year. She loves Stowe but its a 4 hour ride from our house.

[tombo82685]

1” new tonight. Came in generally about an hour