The 2022 - 2023 Ski Season Thread

[SJonesWX]

19 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

So I did hear a rumor their snowmaking pond temp is really high or was as of a week or two ago.  Because they had to refill it late and it was so warm in Oct/Nov, the pond temp was still in the 50s when it should be 30s now.  Not sure but that would jive with what you said.  My snowmaking vendor source said it was requiring more compressed air to make snow than normal because if the water temp.  It has to drop fast though and that might’ve only been for a week or two.

they should go to the local ice rink and get a couple of dump trucks of "snow" and dump it in the pond.

[PowderBeard]

1 hour ago, bwt3650 said:

While I think Jay wins the east if you are speaking strictly about glades and number of powder days, there is an argument to be made that Sugarbush has the best overall terrain in the East. 

I would agree on both of those points. There are several places where most of the unmarked wooded terrain has been cleared/maintained (e.g., Magic, Stratton, Pico, MRG, Stowe, Sugarloaf) but a lot more powder days to be had at Jay...if the lifts are not a wind-hold lol.  

[powderfreak]

3 hours ago, bwt3650 said:

While I think Jay wins the east if you are speaking strictly about glades and number of powder days, there is an argument to be made that Sugarbush has the best overall terrain in the East. 

If Sugarbush had a top-to-bottom lift at North and South, they probably win. I’ve always thought it would change the whole experience.  It might always be on wind hold though… but man the vertical available on one single lift ride would be sweet.

[Angus]

I don't ski there at all anymore but with the exception of castlerock area, I remember preferring Mt. Ellen especially that lift to the summit. Might be the lines were shorter and trails less crowded. Be kind of interesting to go back now and ski - probably 10 years or so since I was there.

I remember being a kid in my school's library - gosh, creeping up on 50 years! - reading the profiles of mountains and glen ellen sounded awesome with it's high base elevation! I just browsed the new england ski history site and read this...

In early 1967, Glen Ellen was named as a possible downhill skiing venue for a potential Waterbury 1976 Olympics bid, thanks to its large continuous vertical drop.

[GCWarrior]

5 hours ago, PowderBeard said:

I would agree on both of those points. There are several places where most of the unmarked wooded terrain has been cleared/maintained (e.g., Magic, Stratton, Pico, MRG, Stowe, Sugarloaf) but a lot more powder days to be had at Jay...if the lifts are not a wind-hold lol.  

My day April 21st.  15” of powder but the lifts were on hold per usual.  Still an awesome day of human powered turns. 

[GCWarrior]

6 hours ago, bwt3650 said:

While I think Jay wins the east if you are speaking strictly about glades and number of powder days, there is an argument to be made that Sugarbush has the best overall terrain in the East. 

Smuggs has the best terrain in the east.  Stowe is pretty good too.  The terrain off the four runner quad is pretty much on par with the best terrain pods I’ve skied anywhere.  The side country at both places is amazing as well.  Then there is MRG which has a special place in my heart.  Big time rowdy terrain by both east and west standards. MRG is one of remaining pure classic places to ski in the USA(Alta, Taos)

[HIPPYVALLEY]

2 hours ago, GCWarrior said:

Smuggs has the best terrain in the east.  Stowe is pretty good too.  The terrain off the four runner quad is pretty much on par with the best terrain pods I’ve skied anywhere.  The side country at both places is amazing as well.  Then there is MRG which has a special place in my heart.  Big time rowdy terrain by both east and west standards. MRG is one of remaining pure classic places to ski in the USA(Alta, Taos)

I haven't skied it yet but my brother says that new Bracket Basin area of Sugarloaf is pretty amazing terrain. 

[Hitman]

6 hours ago, powderfreak said:

If Sugarbush had a top-to-bottom lift at North and South, they probably win. I’ve always thought it would change the whole experience.  It might always be on wind hold though… but man the vertical available on one single lift ride would be sweet.

I prefer the hub and spoke lift system as a regular but can see how it would be frustrating to those new to the mountain.  Usually, I would only use one of the base quads twice a day, in the morning and after lunch.  The rest of the day, laps off the upper mountain lifts.  Avoid the crowds and the beginner skiers (no offense).  

[powderfreak]

3 hours ago, GCWarrior said:

Smuggs has the best terrain in the east.  Stowe is pretty good too.  The terrain off the four runner quad is pretty much on par with the best terrain pods I’ve skied anywhere.  The side country at both places is amazing as well.  Then there is MRG which has a special place in my heart.  Big time rowdy terrain by both east and west standards. MRG is one of remaining pure classic places to ski in the USA(Alta, Taos)

A few thoughts on the local market... memories and current:

1) I need to get to Smuggs on a lift serviced day.  I've skinned there out-of-season but haven't gotten the full feel of a "ski day" there.  I don't think it's ever really "clicked" for me at Smuggs, but skinning a run here or there is no where close to actually seeing the lift serviced terrain.  Enough people I highly respect love the terrain that I trust it's awesome.

2) Sugarbush has a soft spot to me as my dad and I used to take a trip up from Albany, NY when I was growing up, spend a night at some cheap lodge in the Killington to Warren zone (just a room to sleep in) and then we'd hit Sugarbush for a day before driving home that evening.  Me usually passed out in the passenger seat as a kid after skiing a "big mountain", and my dad listening to Pink Floyd.  Sugarbush had a much different vibe, terrain, environment, weather, than Killington did (which was our northernmost day trip location).  It felt like N.VT.  Which is why I think when forecasting I think of Sugarbush on northward as a different climate zone.  In college, my roommate and I got somewhere between 5th and 10th chair on Castlerock after two feet in December 2003.  We were tracks 3 and 4 on Middle Earth.  Top to bottom, sun poking through, knee deep dense nor'easter snow with no bottom (only sinking in a foot or so of the 2 feet of snow).  I don't remember most of my 1,000+ ski days but I remember that one single run. 

3) Jay Peak gets the most snow.  Sometimes I think the actual snow report is on the optimistic side, but on average my weather knowledge and Green Mtn climo visualization puts Jay as the highest snowfall average.  The base areas are also high up.  It snows, it's a different world parking at 1500-2,000ft in N.VT... and going up from there.  The glades are high-end.  They really developed that during the 1990s and a family trip up there sealed the deal for me back then.  We stayed in a condo up there, ate at the Belfry, and it was very deep winter from a kid from ALB.  Driving up there, it was grass with snow showers in Montgomery... and pounding snow at the Jay Peak base area with 8-10" when we arrived.  I remember my mom was very flustered, ha.  The weather of heavy snow and high wind was stressful for whatever reason; I found it intoxicating.  These experiences guided me later in life, ha.

4) Stowe's FourRunner Quad is the lift that I would ride for the rest of my life if I could only ride one life.  Yes, I'm a Mansfield homer, but I have yet to find one lift that accesses that variety of terrain, that 2,100 vertical foot drop, and that snowfall/snowpack combo in the East.  It is the flagship lift.  Ride time of 7 minutes, it goes straight up.  There's a brief runout at the bottom below Crossover, but it is a fast lift with a direct liftline to some amazingly sustained pitch and terrain.  Add in the fact that it rises up the steep Mansfield E/NE slope that retains snowpack as good as any aspect in the Green Mtns (there's a reason the Mansfield stake holds depth for so long, and better than anywhere else), it accesses the best sustained terrain, on the most reliable natural snowpack, in the fastest time.  The Mansfield Gondola is solid, with the same vertical and some of the best side-country in the East (into the Notch), but it does not offer the variety and options of the Quad.  The Gondola side snow preservation is not as good as the Quad side.  The FourRunner Quad is the crown jewel.

5) The MRG Single is up there with the FourRunner Quad, and is in the same category of awesomeness among people who argue fixed grip vs. high-speed.  One brings a skier to some McSkiing trails of snowmaking mixed with classic New England sustained steeps, and another accesses classic New England terrain sustained top-to-bottom.  The snowmaking off one of those lifts makes the ski season much longer than the other, but when the natural snow is in, the two lifts are probably the ones I'd choose to ride over everything else.  Both of those lifts (Stowe FourRunner and MRG Single) are the premiere lifts in the East IMO.  They are different but yet occupy a similar place in East Coast ski lore... maybe because the Mansfield Single chair used to be *the lift* along with the MRG Single.  There is no extended run out, no boring spots from top to bottom, nothing but sustained pitch for 2,000+ vertical feet on both of those lifts.  One just moves much faster than the other, uphill capacity changes the downhill experience too.

 

[bwt3650]

A few thoughts on the local market... memories and current:
1) I need to get to Smuggs on a lift serviced day.  I've skinned there out-of-season but haven't gotten the full feel of a "ski day" there.  I don't think it's ever really "clicked" for me at Smuggs, but skinning a run here or there is no where close to actually seeing the lift serviced terrain.  Enough people I highly respect love the terrain that I trust it's awesome.
2) Sugarbush has a soft spot to me as my dad and I used to take a trip up from Albany, NY when I was growing up, spend a night at some cheap lodge in the Killington to Warren zone (just a room to sleep in) and then we'd hit Sugarbush for a day before driving home that evening.  Me usually passed out in the passenger seat as a kid after skiing a "big mountain", and my dad listening to Pink Floyd.  Sugarbush had a much different vibe, terrain, environment, weather, than Killington did (which was our northernmost day trip location).  It felt like N.VT.  Which is why I think when forecasting I think of Sugarbush on northward as a different climate zone.  In college, my roommate and I got somewhere between 5th and 10th chair on Castlerock after two feet in December 2003.  We were tracks 3 and 4 on Middle Earth.  Top to bottom, sun poking through, knee deep dense nor'easter snow with no bottom (only sinking in a foot or so of the 2 feet of snow).  I don't remember most of my 1,000+ ski days but I remember that one single run. 
3) Jay Peak gets the most snow.  Sometimes I think the actual snow report is on the optimistic side, but on average my weather knowledge and Green Mtn climo visualization puts Jay as the highest snowfall average.  The base areas are also high up.  It snows, it's a different world parking at 1500-2,000ft in N.VT... and going up from there.  The glades are high-end.  They really developed that during the 1990s and a family trip up there sealed the deal for me back then.  We stayed in a condo up there, ate at the Belfry, and it was very deep winter from a kid from ALB.  Driving up there, it was grass with snow showers in Montgomery... and pounding snow at the Jay Peak base area with 8-10" when we arrived.  I remember my mom was very flustered, ha.  The weather of heavy snow and high wind was stressful for whatever reason; I found it intoxicating.  These experiences guided me later in life, ha.
4) Stowe's FourRunner Quad is the lift that I would ride for the rest of my life if I could only ride one life.  Yes, I'm a Mansfield homer, but I have yet to find one lift that accesses that variety of terrain, that 2,100 vertical foot drop, and that snowfall/snowpack combo in the East.  It is the flagship lift.  Ride time of 7 minutes, it goes straight up.  There's a brief runout at the bottom below Crossover, but it is a fast lift with a direct liftline to some amazingly sustained pitch and terrain.  Add in the fact that it rises up the steep Mansfield E/NE slope that retains snowpack as good as any aspect in the Green Mtns (there's a reason the Mansfield stake holds depth for so long, and better than anywhere else), it accesses the best sustained terrain, on the most reliable natural snowpack, in the fastest time.  The Mansfield Gondola is solid, with the same vertical and some of the best side-country in the East (into the Notch), but it does not offer the variety and options of the Quad.  The Gondola side snow preservation is not as good as the Quad side.  The FourRunner Quad is the crown jewel.
5) The MRG Single is up there with the FourRunner Quad, and is in the same category of awesomeness among people who argue fixed grip vs. high-speed.  One brings a skier to some McSkiing trails of snowmaking mixed with classic New England sustained steeps, and another accesses classic New England terrain sustained top-to-bottom.  The snowmaking off one of those lifts makes the ski season much longer than the other, but when the natural snow is in, the two lifts are probably the ones I'd choose to ride over everything else.  Both of those lifts (Stowe FourRunner and MRG Single) are the premiere lifts in the East IMO.  They are different but yet occupy a similar place in East Coast ski lore... maybe because the Mansfield Single chair used to be *the lift* along with the MRG Single.  There is no extended run out, no boring spots from top to bottom, nothing but sustained pitch for 2,000+ vertical feet on both of those lifts.  One just moves much faster than the other, uphill capacity changes the downhill experience too.
 

There is no arguing any of that…jay needs to replace the Bonnie and extend it higher so when the flyer is on hold, you can access the tram side stuff. There’s areas there that hold powder for days. It would be a game changer.

The four runner has a special place for me too. About 3-4 seasons ago, there was a late feb, early March storm that caught some lake enhancement and went from about two feet, to nearly 3. The day was windy with the back end and started with only the triple. The quad chairs weren’t even on and I went in to eat. I came out just as it was loading and couldn’t believe it was running. I was one of the first down and it was some of the best I have ever skied. I think I did starr, liftline, then nosedive. Incredible stuff.

I haven’t been to Maine and that’s on the list, so I wonder if there’s any stuff there that would make my list. It’s interesting you left off Killington. It’s like they are a Jack of all trades and master of none. The glades are good, not great…the steeps are probably their best part, but it’s not like that incredible memory (at least for me)..I love that place though. Just hard to single out something, besides their snowmaking.


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[tamarack]

16 hours ago, Angus said:

I don't ski there at all anymore but with the exception of castlerock area, I remember preferring Mt. Ellen especially that lift to the summit. Might be the lines were shorter and trails less crowded. Be kind of interesting to go back now and ski - probably 10 years or so since I was there.

I remember being a kid in my school's library - gosh, creeping up on 50 years! - reading the profiles of mountains and glen ellen sounded awesome with it's high base elevation! I just browsed the new england ski history site and read this...

In early 1967, Glen Ellen was named as a possible downhill skiing venue for a potential Waterbury 1976 Olympics bid, thanks to its large continuous vertical drop.

My arthritic knees are long past skiing, but you've brought back memories of Glen Ellen, the only big mountain I've skied.  Learned parallel there during a ridiculously cheap ski week package in Jan 1971 - lifts and daily lessons for 5 days, for 22.50, half their usual ski week price.   Stayed at the "Bagatelle" in Waitsfield, bunks with mattress, bring your own bag, $3/night.  Probably spent <$75 including gas from NNJ.  I'd borrowed dad's camera and ran 2 rolls, only to find that the shutter had broken 7 pics into roll #1, so I "had" to go back in Jan '72 to get the pics.  I still kick myself, gently, for not trying Upper FIS on the last run - steep, mogul-y but really wide with good snow and nobody else on it so I could've picked a back-and-forth line and counted coup at the bottom.  The one trail I would never have tried was Scotch Mist, under the upper mountain lift - just as steep as FIS but about 1/5 the width and those steel obstacles down the middle.  I don't think more than 2-3 skiers had run it during my 2nd visit, a Sat/Sun.

[SJonesWX]

back in the day, Smuggs had a great deal for college students for the winter break. Lodging Sun-Friday in a trailside condo and 4 daily lift tickets per person for under $300. a group of us (maybe 8-10 ppl) went up 2 years in a row, can’t say I remember much about it (thanks alcohol!) other than it being a ridiculously good time.

[MRVexpat]

2 hours ago, bwt3650 said:

There is no arguing any of that…jay needs to replace the Bonnie and extend it higher so when the flyer is on hold, you can access the tram side stuff. There’s areas there that hold powder for days. It would be a game changer.
 

To each their own but I love it as is. Just a quick couple minute skate/hike to access 90% of what you can get off of the Flyer and its top shack location below the windiest part of that ridge means its open more often on the windiest days. 

[Lava Rock]

Looks pretty dismal today at SR.

[powderfreak]

5 hours ago, bwt3650 said:

There is no arguing any of that…jay needs to replace the Bonnie and extend it higher so when the flyer is on hold, you can access the tram side stuff. There’s areas there that hold powder for days. It would be a game changer.

The four runner has a special place for me too. About 3-4 seasons ago, there was a late feb, early March storm that caught some lake enhancement and went from about two feet, to nearly 3. The day was windy with the back end and started with only the triple. The quad chairs weren’t even on and I went in to eat. I came out just as it was loading and couldn’t believe it was running. I was one of the first down and it was some of the best I have ever skied. I think I did starr, liftline, then nosedive. Incredible stuff.

I haven’t been to Maine and that’s on the list, so I wonder if there’s any stuff there that would make my list. It’s interesting you left off Killington. It’s like they are a Jack of all trades and master of none. The glades are good, not great…the steeps are probably their best part, but it’s not like that incredible memory (at least for me)..I love that place though. Just hard to single out something, besides their snowmaking.


.

I want to go to Sugarloaf the most of any other NE ski area.  The mountain size, vertical, weather, etc is all intriguing to me. Aesthetically pleasing mountain to me.

For Jay, if I was in charge of any capital improvement projects I would 100% be heavily in on high-speed Quad at Bonnie.  I’ve skied there a few times but if that lift was fast and could get to a point where you could drop off the other side (Everglades or something like that?) to the Flyer area… that changes how the hill skis.

I get the reasoning for fixed grip lifts but Jay doesn’t see enough traffic IMO for a high speed to really change anything but make for a better experience for those on the hill.  I’m a big fan of quick laps for the many NE ski days when things aren’t off-the-charts good.  Riding slow lifts to ski fast down groomers is a sure ticket to boredom.  Slow lifts to deep powder is ok, but let’s be real, there are a lot of NE ski days where it’s scratchy and the day is better not spent on a slow ride for mediocre skiing.

[powderfreak]

3 hours ago, MRVexpat said:

To each their own but I love it as is. Just a quick couple minute skate/hike to access 90% of what you can get off of the Flyer and its top shack location below the windiest part of that ridge means its open more often on the windiest days. 

Ah is it that easy to get to that side?  It’s been a while for me up there.

[MRVexpat]

28 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Ah is it that easy to get to that side?  It’s been a while for me up there.

Yeah its not a heavy effort if you're in OK shape. Of course this doesn't lead to quick laps as you're then forced to take a beginner area quad over at tramside and then traverse over to stateside that way. Worth it if everything else is skied out! 

[bwt3650]

Yeah its not a heavy effort if you're in OK shape. Of course this doesn't lead to quick laps as you're then forced to take a beginner area quad over at tramside and then traverse over to stateside that way. Worth it if everything else is skied out! 

Yeah, that’s the issue. I’ll do it on good windy powder days, though usually I cut to goat and duck in from there. If you’re going all the way over to ullrs to hit those far glades and it’s windy, that can be a bitch of a walk with the wind screaming in your face. I’m good for one run down my favorite in powder, jfk, then one in the woods, but as you said, taking the metro and the crossover trails to get back plus the hike from the top of the bonnie is a good 30 minutes process each time.

I’ve also been one and done on that trek when it’s below zero and the wind is screaming.


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[bwt3650]

I want to go to Sugarloaf the most of any other NE ski area.  The mountain size, vertical, weather, etc is all intriguing to me. Aesthetically pleasing mountain to me.
For Jay, if I was in charge of any capital improvement projects I would 100% be heavily in on high-speed Quad at Bonnie.  I’ve skied there a few times but if that lift was fast and could get to a point where you could drop off the other side (Everglades or something like that?) to the Flyer area… that changes how the hill skis.
I get the reasoning for fixed grip lifts but Jay doesn’t see enough traffic IMO for a high speed to really change anything but make for a better experience for those on the hill.  I’m a big fan of quick laps for the many NE ski days when things aren’t off-the-charts good.  Riding slow lifts to ski fast down groomers is a sure ticket to boredom.  Slow lifts to deep powder is ok, but let’s be real, there are a lot of NE ski days where it’s scratchy and the day is better not spent on a slow ride for mediocre skiing.

I’m with you..there’s just too many brutally cold, windy days to sit on a long lift. I know true back country, die hard would sacrifice to get to that untracked stuff, but honestly, you don’t need to hunt to find powder in the woods at jay and they are not the southern resorts with thousands of people skiing it out in an hour. I’ll trade the better lift access to avoid the hike…

But that’s just me. I see the other side.

Steve Wright (pre the purchase closing) has said bonnie was top on the list after spending on the “back of the house” stuff that’s been neglected and that a quad is likely over a six pack.


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[HoarfrostHubb]

Too bad that Sugarloaf never got a gondola again to replace the old one.  That was a great way to get up a good sized hill. 

[NW_of_GYX]

8 hours ago, powderfreak said:

I want to go to Sugarloaf the most of any other NE ski area. 

March and April is the time for loaf. It’s a cold, windswept outpost the rest of the season. But to be honest most of Mainers who know a few things just go to Northern Vt that time of year instead lol. Now that saddleback is open it’s worth taking a trip and hitting both- stay in rangeley which is one the most beautiful mountain towns in the east and don’t miss the bumpy but spectacular ride over the height of land from rumford/ Mexico. Skiing is not as interesting as the loaf but the vibe is 1000x better, especially if you’re an industry guy you will appreciate how it’s just a bunch of Mainers having a good time. Which is also why it will never make any money, so go ski it while you can cause it may not last. I know you didn’t ask for advice but it was fun to give it

[HIPPYVALLEY]

3 hours ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Too bad that Sugarloaf never got a gondola again to replace the old one.  That was a great way to get up a good sized hill. 

It's a fantastic mountain with mediocre lift capacity.  It can be brutally cold in W Maine and that gondola was key in late Dec and Jan.  There used to be a T-bar running from mid-mountain that was great because nobody used it and it was out of the wind.

[HIPPYVALLEY]

2 minutes ago, NW_of_GYX said:

March and April is the time for loaf. It’s a cold, windswept outpost the rest of the season. But to be honest most of Mainers who know a few things just go to Northern Vt that time of year instead lol. Now that saddleback is open it’s worth taking a trip and hitting both- stay in rangeley which is one the most beautiful mountain towns in the east and don’t miss the bumpy but spectacular ride over the height of land from rumford/ Mexico. Skiing is not as interesting as the loaf but the vibe is 1000x better, especially if you’re an industry guy you will appreciate how it’s just a bunch of Mainers having a good time. Which is also why it will never make any money, so go ski it while you can cause it may not last. I know you didn’t ask for advice but it was fun to give it

Living in W MA I don't get to Sugarloaf or Rangely much anymore but it is some of the best skiing and hiking in the Northeast.   I used to spend a lot of time in the Carrabassett Valley and met some of the most friendly people there and still keep in touch with a few.  You are correct though, Sugarloaf is the best April skiing in the East and is a joy to hang out at apres ski.  There is something about that mountain and the people there that has always been close to my heart. 

That view from when you round the corner on Rt-27 from Kingfield!

 

 

 

[Baroclinic Zone]

Sugarloaf is a deceivingly big resort with all the tree skiing on Burnt Mt, Brackett Basin and Eastern Territory.  Skied there in my teens and it was cold af from my recollection but it was fun.

[Lava Rock]

Saddleback can be cold af too. Got bad frostbite back in the late 80s.

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk

[mcglups]

It is nice to see this thread turn to talking about "best places" while the current conditions get awfully wet and weak! Hoping for a long duration of cold-enough nights so that magical man made can expand terrain across the region.

In reference to Sugarloaf, been there three times, with the hope of scoring the true potential but just haven't had it come together, but it sure is an awesome mountain.

[Hitman]

Isn't there a poster here from Rossland, BC?

If so, could you please DM me.  Thank you.

[GCWarrior]

Maine has some killer skiing.  I've been lucky to be involved in some pretty awesome powder days up there.  Feb 2010 famous "snowicane" storm that dumped 70" on the Catskills also dumped over 5 feet at Saddleback with no change up over up high.  Drove 8 hours in a whiteout from my house in Holden to Rangeley.  Worth every moment of that drive.  Two of the best days of my life.

Skied Sugarloaf while the big Noreaster in Feb 2013 was going on.  Not the big totals of down south but they still got over 15" of wind loaded snow that all went into bracket basin which was previously closed. Pretty sick day. 

Hit Black mountain of maine on a couple powder days, place has some of the best tree skiing in New England which is saying a lot. 

[powderfreak]

Pretty rough look yesterday afternoon...

This morning though... good turns.

 

[snowgeek]

The hope of swirly manmade snow clouds. Woot. Better times ahead.


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