The 2022 - 2023 Ski Season Thread

[CT Rain]

@powderfreak have locals calmed down about the parking situation? That turned into a pretty epic debacle on social media. 

[Boston Bulldog]

Tough news out of Magic Mountain regarding progress on the Black chair: https://magicmtn.com/alpine-update/

What stood out to me is that the timeline for the lift has been pushed back to "carrying passengers at some point this season if all goes well". With the lack of resources available to Magic ownership, and the difficult nature of the new projects they need to complete before the lift can spin, I think its a safe bet the Quad won't spin this year. 

Pretty unfortunate as the general unreliability of the Red Chair can leave them without summit access for extended periods. I hope they can catch a break and finally complete the project as it's pretty essential to securing the future of Magic. Such a great mountain with amazing terrain. I still am hoping to get 3-4 days in there when (if?) the base is good in SVT.

[powderfreak]

52 minutes ago, CT Rain said:

@powderfreak have locals calmed down about the parking situation? That turned into a pretty epic debacle on social media. 

The atmosphere has been good lately.  Most folks have accepted it, gotten their season parking pass, or will just park in the free lots and ski back to the car.  Many locals wanted it to get more expensive (they were used to the AIG $2000 pass) as supply and demand says this should be very expensive to ski here.

Social media will never truly calm down because social media does outrage well.

I know of a decent amount of people who got Sugarbush passes too.  The market will correct itself and I think market correction is already in progress.  It’s been a quiet start to the season, different than the frenzy last November IMO. 

Pretty nice afternoon, I just got off the hill.  There’s maybe like 40 people skiing this afternoon, ha.

[CT Rain]

2 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

The atmosphere has been good lately.  Most folks have accepted it, gotten their season parking pass, or will just park in the free lots and ski back to the car.  Many locals wanted it to get more expensive (they were used to the AIG $2000 pass) as supply and demand says this should be very expensive to ski here.

Social media will never truly calm down because social media does outrage well.

I know of a decent amount of people who got Sugarbush passes too.  The market will correct itself and I think market correction is already in progress.  It’s been a quiet start to the season, different than the frenzy last November IMO. 

Pretty nice afternoon, I just got off the hill.  There’s maybe like 40 people skiing this afternoon, ha.

yeah the whole thing seemed way overdone on social media. Not really asking too much for people to car pool or take shuttles during busy times.

[bwt3650]

4 hours ago, CT Rain said:

yeah the whole thing seemed way overdone on social media. Not really asking too much for people to car pool or take shuttles during busy times.

The irony of watching the same people bitch that the pass is too cheap, while bitching the parking is too expensive.

[powderfreak]

2 hours ago, bwt3650 said:

The irony of watching the same people bitch that the pass is too cheap, while bitching the parking is too expensive.

There needs to be an economic disincentive… something that discourages an individual from performing an action.

That is the first thing I learned in the Stowe marketing and sales office 15+ years ago as a UVM intern.  Obviously, my naive college ideological self was thinking skiing should be cheap all-around, almost like a non-profit org for those who like sliding down snow.  With fast lifts that always open on time, snowmaking operations that run at all times to max capacity, pristine grooming when the natural snow isn’t in, terrain that’s always cared for in the off-season.

Everyone wants a high-end operation, that’s cheap to experience, on a mountain that is breathtaking to view.

I remember when Stowe was the first ski area to have a single day lift ticket go over the $100 mark.  It was a huge deal.  We got slaughtered on social media.

Now a Mad River Glen day lift ticket costs a hundred bucks (well, $99) with very little operational overhead costs (lifts, grooming, snowmaking, all bare bones cheap economically).

Places that are in demand need an economic disincentive and skiing is seeing a boom period.  COVID reigniting outdoor spaces (similar to Sept 11 exodus to the countryside in drivable distance to NYC), Mega-Passes to places world wide, and later stage capitalism has led to a run on demand for mountain activities/life.

As an economics study, the underlying dynamics at play make sense to me.  You can’t have a cheap, big mountain and high-end operation and not run into demand issues requiring a variable that turns people off from the product.

[powderfreak]

At Stowe the lift uphill capacity can handle the crowd.  The majority of the lifts will now be high-speed with the new Sunrise lift replacing the Triple.

Liftlines are not the problem.  The road and traffic are the problems. One person per vehicle is just not efficient.  But it’s America and individual travel in a car is almost a constitutional right it seems.

The answer is not easy but we enjoy the early season days that are quiet.

[MRVexpat]

Sounds like we need more ski resorts 

[HoarfrostHubb]

7 minutes ago, MRVexpat said:

Sounds like we need more ski resorts 

I wonder what the newest completely new ski area in New England is?

[Ginx snewx]

You have to pay to park at Stowe?

[CT Rain]

29 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

You have to pay to park at Stowe?

$30 for weekends and holidays unless you car pool or park at a lower lot and shuttle. 

[CT Rain]

11 hours ago, powderfreak said:

At Stowe the lift uphill capacity can handle the crowd.  The majority of the lifts will now be high-speed with the new Sunrise lift replacing the Triple.

Liftlines are not the problem.  The road and traffic are the problems. One person per vehicle is just not efficient.  But it’s America and individual travel in a car is almost a constitutional right it seems.

The answer is not easy but we enjoy the early season days that are quiet.

Yeah - makes sense for sure. And the Stowe setup this winter still seems far better than Vail or Beaver Creek - what a nightmare that parking situation is on the weekend. 

[HoarfrostHubb]

3 hours ago, CT Rain said:

$30 for weekends and holidays unless you car pool or park at a lower lot and shuttle. 

How do they define car pool?  

[bwt3650]

There needs to be an economic disincentive… something that discourages an individual from performing an action.
That is the first thing I learned in the Stowe marketing and sales office 15+ years ago as a UVM intern.  Obviously, my naive college ideological self was thinking skiing should be cheap all-around, almost like a non-profit org for those who like sliding down snow.  With fast lifts that always open on time, snowmaking operations that run at all times to max capacity, pristine grooming when the natural snow isn’t in, terrain that’s always cared for in the off-season.
Everyone wants a high-end operation, that’s cheap to experience, on a mountain that is breathtaking to view.
I remember when Stowe was the first ski area to have a single day lift ticket go over the $100 mark.  It was a huge deal.  We got slaughtered on social media.
Now a Mad River Glen day lift ticket costs a hundred bucks (well, $99) with very little operational overhead costs (lifts, grooming, snowmaking, all bare bones cheap economically).
Places that are in demand need an economic disincentive and skiing is seeing a boom period.  COVID reigniting outdoor spaces (similar to Sept 11 exodus to the countryside in drivable distance to NYC), Mega-Passes to places world wide, and later stage capitalism has led to a run on demand for mountain activities/life.
As an economics study, the underlying dynamics at play make sense to me.  You can’t have a cheap, big mountain and high-end operation and not run into demand issues requiring a variable that turns people off from the product.

You are bringing logic into it again..remember “vail sucks guy” (always knew he existed, but credit you for the term) doesn’t care. He should be parking free because vail is only charging for parking so it can pay stockholders dividends. You see, the hedge funds that own millions of dollars worth of stock, are going to get rich on that $25 parking fee. He will gladly pay $2000 for a pass because the mountain is too crowded, but don’t you dare charge him $25 to park his Land Rover.

People often forget that it is a business, and without a profit, it doesn’t exist. Vails not perfect, but to say they haven’t heard some of the complaints and made changes is crap..the minimum wage thing being the biggest. You can’t have new fast lifts, 100 guns on a night, and all the other things people crave from the experience without large corporation with the pockets to fund it.

There is a place in the industry for both the vails of the world, as well as the smuggs, magic, jay etc. the ski industry after being in decline for years has seen a gigantic boom. I agree covid did bring it back to an extent, but I have to credit the multi pass (introduced by vail) as contributing as well.


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[HoarfrostHubb]

Looks like Lakeridge in CT is the “newest” chair serviced ski area that has opened in New England.  1975

Bretton Woods was close. 1973. 
 

So many have closed

[Angus]

Just drove up to WaWa and purchased an uphill pass. Place was pretty busy - parking lot was maybe 1/3-1/4 full. One route from top, two routes from the side hill and two learning slopes, pretty good job.

Lakeridge - it's a gated community - so would say Bretton Woods wins!! Never knew about the place. They have some video on their website. Who would have 'thunk.'

[ORH_wxman]

5 hours ago, MRVexpat said:

Sounds like we need more ski resorts 

This is actually true....but it's hard to get approval to just open one these days. However, if lift tickets keep getting more and more expensive, then the economic incentive to open new ski areas will overpower the regulatory red tape....you'll make the money back that you had to spend opening one up.

Heck, even the seemingly-doomed Balsams in NH has gotten new life. Les Otten found investors late last year to reinvigorate the project. But even if that one eventually fails, there will be incentives to open other areas....or reopen former ski hills that are now closed.

[powderfreak]

33 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

This is actually true....but it's hard to get approval to just open one these days. However, if lift tickets keep getting more and more expensive, then the economic incentive to open new ski areas will overpower the regulatory red tape....you'll make the money back that you had to spend opening one up.

Heck, even the seemingly-doomed Balsams in NH has gotten new life. Les Otten found investors late last year to reinvigorate the project. But even if that one eventually fails, there will be incentives to open other areas....or reopen former ski hills that are now closed.

The initial investment is just massive to get something off the ground.  But people love the business challenge.

[HoarfrostHubb]

47 minutes ago, Angus said:

Just drove up to WaWa and purchased an uphill pass. Place was pretty busy - parking lot was maybe 1/3-1/4 full. One route from top, two routes from the side hill and two learning slopes, pretty good job.

Lakeridge - it's a gated community - so would say Bretton Woods wins!! Never knew about the place. They have some video on their website. Who would have 'thunk.'

Our son did his annual training to be a litftie again at Wachusett last night.  Just wants to get in enough shifts for an employee pass. 

[powderfreak]

1 hour ago, bwt3650 said:

You are bringing logic into it again..remember “vail sucks guy” (always knew he existed, but credit you for the term) doesn’t care. He should be parking free because vail is only charging for parking so it can pay stockholders dividends. You see, the hedge funds that own millions of dollars worth of stock, are going to get rich on that $25 parking fee. He will gladly pay $2000 for a pass because the mountain is too crowded, but don’t you dare charge him $25 to park his Land Rover.

People often forget that it is a business, and without a profit, it doesn’t exist. Vails not perfect, but to say they haven’t heard some of the complaints and made changes is crap..the minimum wage thing being the biggest. You can’t have new fast lifts, 100 guns on a night, and all the other things people crave from the experience without large corporation with the pockets to fund it.

There is a place in the industry for both the vails of the world, as well as the smuggs, magic, jay etc. the ski industry after being in decline for years has seen a gigantic boom. I agree covid did bring it back to an extent, but I have to credit the multi pass (introduced by vail) as contributing as well.

Humans are interesting creatures for sure in thought processes. It’s not always logical, but it’s usually emotional.  This forum in winter casts a light on that in its own .

[snowgeek]

Windham was great today. 2 top to bottom runs. Wolverine (double black on top) had silky, chalky whalebacks. Couldn’t have been more than 200 people skiing. Parked next to the lodge so changing to tele set up halfway through was easy. Early season FTW!!




.

[STILL N OF PIKE]

17 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Humans are interesting creatures for sure in thought processes. It’s not always logical, but it’s usually emotional.  This forum in winter casts a light on that in its own .

Let’s not underestimate corporate greed and the preoccupation with squeezing the most out of a person at the best margin while the marketing works its magic  . I would not be lobbying for a ski resort like they were trying to give skiers the best deal , ideally they are rewarded for squeezing the most out of folks but not to the point it bites them . I mean it’s one thing businesses tend to do best ,so there is a give and take and a slow boil approach amongst most competitors raising fees Is probably in their best interests . I mean let’s not pretend resorts are not businesses with the focus of maximizing dollars Coming out of pockets that they can. Otherwise they are not great businesses and could do “more”. I get the business aspect 100% but my point is business best interests and consumers are not aligned. I mean.. as we have seen ..higher end folks have the disposable income to enjoy higher end hobbies and if I ran a business I would do the same thing , so I certainly get it . 

[snowgeek]

Article in Ski Magazine. “Why You Should Seriously Consider a Ski Trip to the Alps This Winter. $200/day for 5,000 acres or $75 for 200,000? You do the math. Here’s why skiing Mont Blanc is a far better value than North American resorts.”

Get there before it becomes like here lol. Too bad about the airfare.


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[powderfreak]

5 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

Let’s not underestimate corporate greed and the preoccupation with squeezing the most out of a person at the best margin . I would not be lobbying for a ski resort like they were trying to give skiers the best deal , ideally they are rewarded for squeezing the most out of folks but not to the point it bites them so there is a give and take and a slow boil approach amongst most competitors raising fees Is probably in their best interests 

Absolutely. That’s why we say they are businesses.  Not non-profits, and there is massive overhead and uncertainty (weather).  That’s what my post was about my naiveness coming in out of college.

Its the “romantic” vision of skiing against the “realistic” for-profit-business side.  Any business that can get more is likely going to do it, from the local pizza shop to a multi-national corporation.

[STILL N OF PIKE]

10 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Absolutely. That’s why we say they are businesses.  Not non-profits, and there is massive overhead and uncertainty (weather).  That’s what my post was about my naiveness coming in out of college.

Its the “romantic” vision of skiing against the “realistic” for-profit-business side.  Any business that can get more is likely going to do it, from the local pizza shop to a multi-national corporation.

Absolutely, and if they don’t .. the bigger the outfit and less “mom and popish” the faster someone in charge will be replaced that can implement that vision

I’m content with my vail 7 day pass and found it to be a good deal  

i sure wouldn’t pay 30$ to park thou fri-sun

 

[CT Rain]

5 minutes ago, snowgeek said:

Article in Ski Magazine. “Why You Should Seriously Consider a Ski Trip to the Alps This Winter. $200/day for 5,000 acres or $75 for 200,000? You do the math. Here’s why skiing Mont Blanc is a far better value than North American resorts.”

Get there before it becomes like here lol. Too bad about the airfare.


.

The thing is you can probably get a flight to CDG or ZRH for about the same as a lot of places out west in peak season. 

I snagged a $650 Delta flight BDL>ATL>MTJ... but other options I was looking at including SLC and DEN were closer to $800 or more around weekends.

[powderfreak]

12 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

Absolutely, and if they don’t .. the bigger the outfit and less “mom and popish” the faster someone in charge will be replaced that can implement that vision

I’m content with my vail 7 day pass and found it to be a good deal  

i sure wouldn’t pay 30$ to park thou fri-sun

 

Which I guess shows it’s working as that economic disincentive is now going to move you to skiing midweek at Stowe when there’s excess supply… and lead to one less car on the Mountain Road from Fri-Sun.  Or you’ll take a shuttle from lodging… though you probably pay $30 a day anyway to have a car at the Lodge at Spruce Peak?

[STILL N OF PIKE]

5 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Which I guess shows it’s working as that economic disincentive is now going to move you to skiing midweek at Stowe when there’s excess supply… and lead to one less car on the Mountain Road from Fri-Sun.  Or you’ll take a shuttle from lodging… though you probably pay $30 a day anyway to have a car at the Lodge at Spruce Peak?

I think many people would be happy to ski mid week if they could , thou in reality I’ll probably just ski somewhere else if my friends I’m skiing with can’t do midweek . I don’t enjoy skiing solo but it’s usually just 2-3 ppl total and honestly I would simply choose the NH resorts bc they are closer for day trips which I do more often, even thou we all know Stowe get dumped on more  

[ORH_wxman]

9 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

I think many people would be happy to ski mid week if they could , thou in reality I’ll probably just ski somewhere else if my friends I’m skiing with can’t do midweek . I don’t enjoy skiing solo but it’s usually just 2-3 ppl total and honestly I would simply choose the NH resorts bc they are closer for day trips which I do more often, even thou we all know Stowe get dumped on more  

We should get a couple people to do a small day trip in the winter midweek. You can get some great deals midweek and I can play hookie a lot easier than my wife can (she’s a teacher). I don’t mind skiing solo at all, but it’s def more fun if you have another couple skiers if similar skill. 

[powderfreak]

7 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

I think many people would be happy to ski mid week if they could , thou in reality I’ll probably just ski somewhere else if my friends I’m skiing with can’t do midweek . I don’t enjoy skiing solo but it’s usually just 2-3 ppl total and honestly I would simply choose the NH resorts bc they are closer for day trips which I do more often, even thou we all know Stowe get dumped on more  

Yeah it’s a tough call sometimes, I enjoy solo sometimes but skiing with friends is usually better.  You have any trips to Spruce planned?