June Banter 2022

[George BM]

Weenifying Thursday!

Forecast Discussion

Thursday, June 2, 2022 2:50PM EDT

 

Temps have continued into the lower/mid 90s with dewpts into the lower/mid 70s. This combined with moderately steep MLLRs (6.5-7.5C/km) is yielding MLCAPE of 2500-4000J/kg. Swift flow between 600-400mb of 40-50kts will lead to effective bulk-shear of similar magnitudes leading to a mix of supercells and bowing line segments. With at least moderate low-level shear in place (ESRH 100-150m2/s2) a tornado or two cannot be ruled out, especially with any LEWPS that may develop. Otherwise, with large DCAPE in place (1000-1500J/kg), swaths of widespread damaging winds w/ a few significant gusts potentially up to 80mph will be commonplace, particularly with any bowing segments. Large to possibly very large hail will be a threat, particularly with any supercells that form.

Tornado: 5%

Wind: 45%(hatched)

Hail: 15%

Severe Thunderstorm Watch in effect for Northern/central VA, most of MD, Delaware, southern PA, southern NJ and the District of Columbia until 10PM EDT Thursday, June 2, 2022.

Hazards:

                Widespread damaging winds w/ a few significant gusts to 80 mph likely.

                Scattered large hail likely w/ isolated very large hail to 2” diameter possible.

                A tornado or two possible.

Watch Probs:

               TOR: 20%/10%

               WIND: 90%/70%

               HAIL: 60%/40%

 

"Forecaster": George BM

[RDM]

43 minutes ago, Stormfly said:

I really hope it wasn't the same guy/company!

This is why I could never do residential "heating and cooling".  So much has changed since the 70s and 80s and residential systems using variable air volume, multi zone, multi stage, et-al which are things adopted from commercial systems chiefly due to savings from "time of use" electric billing simply means that residential "heating and cooling" guys that never were properly trained or had experience are clueless.  When you throw in geothermal it really gets interesting.

Automotive stuff, pretty much all my experience was pre 134a changeover so 1980s.  So much has changed and is about to change again.

In ACR we call the high pressure line the liquid line and the low pressure line the suction line.  High pressure (discharge) right off the compressor (hot gas) will be the hottest and the coolest it will be is right at the expansion valve or metering device.  That's where it is SUPPOSED to be completely devoid of gas/bubbles.  After the expansion valve where pressure is low it will be the coldest as it enters the evaporator coil. 

Heat pumps are a different animal altogether as they need to be able to run with a very low evaporator temperature and thus require a suction accumulator which is basically a reservoir before the compressor.  This allows liquid refrigerant to accumulate to keep it out of the compressor which would be bad.  If liquid enters the compressor that is called slugging which often results in damaged components since compressors are positive displacement devices.  Similar to getting water in the intake of a car (hydro lock) I can assure you that you won't be happy with the repair bills!  This is why heat pumps need a defrost cycle to periodically reverse the cycle turning the evaporator back into a condenser and melting off frost before it blocks the airflow and becomes un manageable.

 

I just realized this is in the OBS thread, we should probably move this to banter or elsewhere!


 

I wasn't paying attention as well that we were in the OBS thread.  My fault and regrets to the Mods.  

Great info on heat pumps.  My brother in Ohio has a geothermal heat pump.  Was "state of the art" when he had it installed in the early 2000's.  Was nothing but problems from the start.  Plus, it's just too darn cold in Ohio in the Winter for the heat pump to provide adequate heating alone.  The aux electric heat offset the supposed efficiency and savings of the heat pump.  He's since scrapped the heat pump and converted back to propane - the standard for farms and others off the natural gas grid.  (his house was built in 1860 and he's only the 3rd occupant!)

I'm with you on the R-12, to R-134a and now they are migrating to something else for the automotive industry.  Why does it HAVE to be so complicated?  

Speaking of complicated...  You can probably appreciate this...  Our system has 2 zones.  Has a nat gas fired boiler for hot water heat that flows to both air handlers with a pump and 2 thermostatically controlled metering valves.  One air handler in the basement and one in the attic (I still don't know exactly how the hot water supply and return lines runs to the attic - terrified of driving a nail in the wall and get that hissing sound of water..).  

When we had the attic system replaced 5 years ago, the guys spent 2 full days on the line with Tier 3 support at Carrier trying to figure out the control logic for the new attic unit and it's very complicated digital wi-fi thermostat.  They worked 14+ hours one day to get it up and running in a test mode, and had to come back the next day when they spent 12 more hours online with Tier3 trying to get the wiring ironed out.  And of course, it was the hottest time of the year.  Those guys worked their butts off in the sweltering heat of the attic trying to get the control logic working as needed.  They finally got both AC systems working, but had to come back in the Fall when it was time for heat to complete the troubleshooting to get the AC AND the Heat to work as designed.  It was a nightmare for control theory logic.  

[GramaxRefugee]

58 minutes ago, RDM said:

 ...  (his house was built in 1860 and he's only the 3rd occupant!)

 

This is very cool.

[Stormfly]

1 hour ago, RDM said:

I wasn't paying attention as well that we were in the OBS thread.  My fault and regrets to the Mods.  

Great info on heat pumps.  My brother in Ohio has a geothermal heat pump.  Was "state of the art" when he had it installed in the early 2000's.  Was nothing but problems from the start.  Plus, it's just too darn cold in Ohio in the Winter for the heat pump to provide adequate heating alone.  The aux electric heat offset the supposed efficiency and savings of the heat pump.  He's since scrapped the heat pump and converted back to propane - the standard for farms and others off the natural gas grid.  (his house was built in 1860 and he's only the 3rd occupant!)

I'm with you on the R-12, to R-134a and now they are migrating to something else for the automotive industry.  Why does it HAVE to be so complicated?  

Speaking of complicated...  You can probably appreciate this...  Our system has 2 zones.  Has a nat gas fired boiler for hot water heat that flows to both air handlers with a pump and 2 thermostatically controlled metering valves.  One air handler in the basement and one in the attic (I still don't know exactly how the hot water supply and return lines runs to the attic - terrified of driving a nail in the wall and get that hissing sound of water..).  

When we had the attic system replaced 5 years ago, the guys spent 2 full days on the line with Tier 3 support at Carrier trying to figure out the control logic for the new attic unit and it's very complicated digital wi-fi thermostat.  They worked 14+ hours one day to get it up and running in a test mode, and had to come back the next day when they spent 12 more hours online with Tier3 trying to get the wiring ironed out.  And of course, it was the hottest time of the year.  Those guys worked their butts off in the sweltering heat of the attic trying to get the control logic working as needed.  They finally got both AC systems working, but had to come back in the Fall when it was time for heat to complete the troubleshooting to get the AC AND the Heat to work as designed.  It was a nightmare for control theory logic.  

Yes this is why planning out the install and taking the climate zones as well as the soil type into factor is important with geothermal.  Its costly and there's no wiggle room for miscalculations resulting in negative ROI and pissed off clients!

Geo has improved and the circulators are more reliable but proper maintenance is beyond the scope of most DIY folks.

Our heating is complex too!  Heatpump is primary down to freezing then no. 2 oil (all forced air) with a pellet stove insert in the family room and conventional wood stove in the basement.  All the trouble to keep warm while keeping the wallet happy.  We definitely swing towards the cheaper side and with oil prices it's gonna be wood in the coldest months.  I don't mind it but I wish I had the physical endurance I did 30 years ago!

Eventually I'll probably switch to multi zone mini split as they're easy to install and super efficient especially for heat.  Having 15kW of solar helps too.

Nat gas is nice and low maint for forced air but it's probably going to get expensive too.  Still cheaper for emergency power up to 25kW or so.  Love the low RPM Northern Lights Diesel generators but cringe when the tanks (300 gallons x2) need filling especially now!

I remember when BGE called me about a wifi thermostat for free since I was on their Peak Rewards plan.  I told them up front that I had dual fuel heat and they said it wasn't a problem.  Poor guy comes out and looks at wiring and said it wouldn't work!   He said he couldn't leave the thermostat without being installed and working which I was hoping I could do as I was planning on using an intermediate logic board so it would work.  Don't miss it TBH as it would be another IOT device on the numerous VLAN groups here I need to keep on top of.  And if we do have a SHTF situation at least I know I can keep putting logs on the fire and not freeze to death!

[WxWatcher007]

 

[RDM]

2 hours ago, GramaxRefugee said:

This is very cool.

Yea - agree.  My brother and his wife bought the place in early 2000's.  It was the estate from 3 brothers who were born, raised and died there - never married.  When he bought the place, it had no indoor running water or plumbing, no central heat, no AC.  The heat was provided by fireplaces in every room with the main fp standing about 5 feet wide by 4 feet high - had the proverbial wrought iron swing arm for a kettle.  The only way to the second floor was a curved staircase that followed the profile of one of the chimneys.  The stair treads are about 6 inches deep and the risers are about 15-18" high.  Going up or down is a deft balancing act. 

My brother is a general contractor on the industrial side.  He knows all aspects of construction.  They lived in a trailer for 3 years while they overhauled the place.  Put on a sizable addition which included "normal" stairs to the second floor.  Completely replaced all the electric service throughout.  Added central HVAC and the aforementioned heat pump.  It was the cats meow at the time and he knew they were pushing the zone thing, but they went extra deep with the water loop (where the heat comes from) and thought they'd be ok.  Was a gamble that didn't produce the desired results.  

It was a labor of love to restore the place into a modern home, albeit while retaining the architectural elements of a 1860 homestead.  Didn't even mention the hand hewn beams in the house and the barn.  Masterpieces of mechanical know-how.  

[RDM]

2 hours ago, Stormfly said:

Yes this is why planning out the install and taking the climate zones as well as the soil type into factor is important with geothermal.  Its costly and there's no wiggle room for miscalculations resulting in negative ROI and pissed off clients!

Geo has improved and the circulators are more reliable but proper maintenance is beyond the scope of most DIY folks.

Our heating is complex too!  Heatpump is primary down to freezing then no. 2 oil (all forced air) with a pellet stove insert in the family room and conventional wood stove in the basement.  All the trouble to keep warm while keeping the wallet happy.  We definitely swing towards the cheaper side and with oil prices it's gonna be wood in the coldest months.  I don't mind it but I wish I had the physical endurance I did 30 years ago!

Eventually I'll probably switch to multi zone mini split as they're easy to install and super efficient especially for heat.  Having 15kW of solar helps too.

Nat gas is nice and low maint for forced air but it's probably going to get expensive too.  Still cheaper for emergency power up to 25kW or so.  Love the low RPM Northern Lights Diesel generators but cringe when the tanks (300 gallons x2) need filling especially now!

I remember when BGE called me about a wifi thermostat for free since I was on their Peak Rewards plan.  I told them up front that I had dual fuel heat and they said it wasn't a problem.  Poor guy comes out and looks at wiring and said it wouldn't work!   He said he couldn't leave the thermostat without being installed and working which I was hoping I could do as I was planning on using an intermediate logic board so it would work.  Don't miss it TBH as it would be another IOT device on the numerous VLAN groups here I need to keep on top of.  And if we do have a SHTF situation at least I know I can keep putting logs on the fire and not freeze to death!

Rgr on the mini-splits.  They rule in most of the rest of the world.  Had them in India, Japan and Thailand.  Most folks in the US don't realize our central HVAC systems are a rare commodity in the world.  Most cultures don't have access to the power and/or can't afford to heat/cool an entire home the way we do.  My home in Japan was a fraction of the size of a normal house here in the US.  Even with only using individual fan-coil units on a room by room basis, my electric bill was routinely $1000+/month - and that was in the 90's.  Plan to install a mini-split system in our garage/work shop addition.  When I get-around-to-it...  

With you on the BU generator too.  We live less than a half mile from the Vienna city limits, but are on well water and septic - with nat gas for heat.  When the power goes out (and it does a lot here), we have a small 10kw generator which is enough to run one blower unit for heat, some outlets and the well pump.  But that 208vac well pump has a significant surge on startup.  No slow-start motor to help quell the surge.  Plan to go with an auto-start, auto-switch unit at some point.  When I get-around-to-it for that project too.  The current project this summer is another retaining wall in front of the house.  Will probably be about 80k lbs of block that weight 82lbs each.   Lots of fun.  Like Tom Sawyer and painting a white picket fence.  You should try it!!!

 

 

[Stormfly]

Zone control aside, the minisplits have the advantage of near silent running!  And efficiency with heatpumps is crazy high.  No need to worry about balance points as the top units have 90% of their capacity at -20F!

Those old fashioned Franklin Electric biac controller pumps do have quite the grunt on starting.  As much as 30% higher than hermetic LRA of equal hp!  That will definitely make a two pole genny sputter and lights flicker!  We're on a well here too.  I'd like to put in a VFD pump with a real continuous variable speed cycloconverter.  No surges on startup, and no cycling as pump maintains target pressure on demand, trickling down to 1gpm then stopping when tank pressure is satisfied.  We do have two wells here, using one of them and it's good for over 20gpm continuous.  Very soft, clear, slightly acidic water.

I'll leave the lifting of bricks up to my BIL, he's the landscaper!

[toolsheds]

3 hours ago, RDM said:

 The current project this summer is another retaining wall in front of the house.  Will probably be about 80k lbs of block that weight 82lbs each.   Lots of fun.  Like Tom Sawyer and painting a white picket fence.  You should try it!!!

 

 

I'm still working through the 96 boxes of hardwood I'm replacing our carpet with.  I'm about 1/3 of the way through but hope to pick up speed with some time off this summer.  :-)

 

 

 

[CAPE]

1 hour ago, Stormfly said:

Zone control aside, the minisplits have the advantage of near silent running!  And efficiency with heatpumps is crazy high.  No need to worry about balance points as the top units have 90% of their capacity at -20F!

Those old fashioned Franklin Electric biac controller pumps do have quite the grunt on starting.  As much as 30% higher than hermetic LRA of equal hp!  That will definitely make a two pole genny sputter and lights flicker!  We're on a well here too.  I'd like to put in a VFD pump with a real continuous variable speed cycloconverter.  No surges on startup, and no cycling as pump maintains target pressure on demand, trickling down to 1gpm then stopping when tank pressure is satisfied.  We do have two wells here, using one of them and it's good for over 20gpm continuous.  Very soft, clear, slightly acidic water.

I'll leave the lifting of bricks up to my BIL, he's the landscaper!

A standard PWM VFD is all that's needed for a residential well pump if you want to go that route. I'm not sure why you would need a cycloconverter for a well pump application. Those are used for really big motors and traditionally for electric propulsion on big ships- and even in those applications modern VFDs using PWM with IGBTs in the inverter section have become more common.

[H2O]

Yeah! What he said!!

 

*quietly nods that my .02 is worthless in this convo

[CAPE]

 

[CAPE]

My latest project is replacing bad deck boards. Did some last fall, and noticed a few more are rotted in sections. Deck has a cool multicolored look now lol.

I will probably lightly scrub the whole thing with some Oxiclean and hot water at some point and put a transparent stain on it, which will look good for a year or 2 as always. OxiClean is the shit btw. Rinses off easy leaving no residue, cost effective and works better than deck wash products.

[RDM]

2 hours ago, Stormfly said:

Zone control aside, the minisplits have the advantage of near silent running!  And efficiency with heatpumps is crazy high.  No need to worry about balance points as the top units have 90% of their capacity at -20F!

Those old fashioned Franklin Electric biac controller pumps do have quite the grunt on starting.  As much as 30% higher than hermetic LRA of equal hp!  That will definitely make a two pole genny sputter and lights flicker!  We're on a well here too.  I'd like to put in a VFD pump with a real continuous variable speed cycloconverter.  No surges on startup, and no cycling as pump maintains target pressure on demand, trickling down to 1gpm then stopping when tank pressure is satisfied.  We do have two wells here, using one of them and it's good for over 20gpm continuous.  Very soft, clear, slightly acidic water.

I'll leave the lifting of bricks up to my BIL, he's the landscaper!

wow - you lost me at zone control (sort of - haha).  But, spot on re the flickering lights on well pump startup.  When the well pump goes, going to get a good one that handles the surge better.  Maybe it will have the VFD feather thingy, whatever that is.  (smile).  

Never had our well flow tested but 20gpm is awesome.  We have great tasting water and even though City water is available, don't want it.  City water wasn't available when our house was built in 76.  They ran it about 10 years later, but it's $30k to connect - our driveway is 450 ft long.   If your BIL is looking for more exercise, send him over in a couple weeks when the first semi-load of block arrives!  

 

[Stormfly]

2 hours ago, CAPE said:

A standard PWM VFD is all that's needed for a residential well pump if you want to go that route. I'm not sure why you would need a cycloconverter for a well pump application. Those are used for really big motors and traditionally for electric propulsion on big ships- and even in those applications modern VFDs using PWM with IGBTs in the inverter section have become more common.

Everything is going GaN HEMT.

But you're right from a practical sense particularly with efficiency.  Our solar inverters are close to 99% efficient at the onset of clipping and even a 12kW unit is passively cooled!

It's funny how the folks that make the cycle stop valves are harsh critics of the VFD controller.  Not for me, I'd rather not restrict the output of the pump to 1gpm to keep it from cycling and there's always the risk of overheating them too.

City water is OK as long as you have a GAC filter to remove the chlorine.  In any case I always have 18+ meg water available for cooking and aquaculture needs.

Zone control is just that, a thermostat for each zone which can be a room or part of the house.  Window shakers are rudimentary form of zoned cooling if you think about it.

[RIC_WX]

5 hours ago, Stormfly said:

Zone control aside, the minisplits have the advantage of near silent running!  And efficiency with heatpumps is crazy high.  No need to worry about balance points as the top units have 90% of their capacity at -20F!
 

As someone who works in this industry, this makes me cringe just a little.  It’s not that it can’t happen, it’s just so often not true in our notoriously humid climate.  People also sometimes confuse the COP with heat production (conveniently) and disregard that even though they get heat in single digit temperatures, the real world efficiency at this point is little different than electric baseboard.  Meaning, 90% of rated capacity is not the same as 90% of rated efficiency at extremely cold temperatures, even in the most optimal conditions.

I have 2 inverter mini splits installed at Deep Creek and getting ready to install a 3rd as I finish my loft.  They are indeed fantastic for cooling.  But heating is virtually worthless once you get into the +20’s as the slightest bit of snow freezes up the coil and all your energy goes into constant defrost mode.

[Stormfly]

24 minutes ago, RIC_WX said:

As someone who works in this industry, this makes me cringe just a little.  It’s not that it can’t happen, it’s just so often not true in our notoriously humid climate.  People also sometimes confuse the COP with heat production (conveniently) and disregard that even though they get heat in single digit temperatures, the real world efficiency at this point is little different than electric baseboard.  Meaning, 90% of rated capacity is not the same as 90% of rated efficiency at extremely cold temperatures, even in the most optimal conditions.

I have 2 inverter mini splits installed at Deep Creek and getting ready to install a 3rd as I finish my loft.  They are indeed fantastic for cooling.  But heating is virtually worthless once you get into the +20’s as the slightest bit of snow freezes up the coil and all your energy goes into constant defrost mode.

Which units do you have?

I'm curious about this because a few years ago I was indeed told this was possible and I was skeptical but have been out of the trade for 30 years.

 

EDIT:  Most of the % of nameplate COP I'm seeing on charts bottoms out at +5F.  Perhaps they meant -20 centigrade instead of Fahrenheit! LOL

Even still, here in MD it's good enough for me.  Wood isn't going anywhere and it's the most comfortable heat bar none.

[RDM]

44 minutes ago, RIC_WX said:

As someone who works in this industry, this makes me cringe just a little.  It’s not that it can’t happen, it’s just so often not true in our notoriously humid climate.  People also sometimes confuse the COP with heat production (conveniently) and disregard that even though they get heat in single digit temperatures, the real world efficiency at this point is little different than electric baseboard.  Meaning, 90% of rated capacity is not the same as 90% of rated efficiency at extremely cold temperatures, even in the most optimal conditions.

I have 2 inverter mini splits installed at Deep Creek and getting ready to install a 3rd as I finish my loft.  They are indeed fantastic for cooling.  But heating is virtually worthless once you get into the +20’s as the slightest bit of snow freezes up the coil and all your energy goes into constant defrost mode.

Very interesting.  Appreciate your insight and the same from Stormfly.  Had a combination of Mitsubishi and Frederich mini-splits in Afghanistan and mainly Mitsubishi at my house in Japan.  It got pretty cold in Kabul, but not for extended periods (fortunately)  Same in Japan - at least where I was in Japan - near Yokohama.  (the mountains get much colder).  They seemed to heat ok, but I can't testify as to how efficient they were operating.  The Mitsubishi units cooled very well in Japan where the humidity is atrocious - provided I kept the condensate drains cleared out.  It was a 2x per year routine to blow them out of accumulated muck.  

[Rvarookie]

Pool drunk hits harder than snow drunk 

[mattie g]

On 5/31/2022 at 11:10 AM, SnowenOutThere said:

Also summer swim starts today. For the swim parents in this forum what's it like? @mattie g and @H2O, it seems like a lot of work. 

As a team rep, my job is a lot bigger than it is for other parents, so it's kind of hard to say. My co-rep and I have been meeting since January. Those were just preliminary meetings, but they started ramping up in March as we got the new website going and started general planning for the season. We see each other almost every day at the bus stop, so we always have a little chat about things, and of course we see each other at practices now. We're also always texting about plans, budget, etc. and coordinating on communications to the families. I'm fully expecting it to get even crazier in a couple weeks as we start real planning for the meets and coordinating with the coaches and data coordinators on getting the meet sheets squared away.

My wife ran concessions last year, which was a huge job. People like Referee, Data Coordinator, Starter, and Chief Timer (among others) have a big part to play, but their jobs are generally "just" day of meets (Data Coordinator is more than just day of). I always mention that we're a small team, and that means that we need lots of families to get really involved. It's a decent amount of work for everyone, but we all generally like each other, so that's a huge help!

On 5/31/2022 at 11:50 AM, H2O said:

I’ve dialed back some from the height of what I used to do. 
 

But it will be daily trips to the pool for practices starting today and until the end of July. Being Chief timer also means running that group for both our Saturday A meets and Monday B meets. I also get asked on occasion to do that job for divisional meets. 
 

Beyond that it’s always working set up and clean up for meets and being involved with coaches and team reps for other things. Thankless jobs by many others so it’s not like it’s awful. 
 

I started something last year with our last B meet to provide adult beverages for my timers for fun. Gonna try that again unless I get into trouble. Lol

I mean...if you have nothing better to do, then you might as well get down to the pool to help!

We have some folks on our team who get involved like you do. They sign up for official volunteer slots, but they end up doing a ton more before, during, and after meets. I'm already seeing how important these folks are for us, so we always let them know how appreciated they are!

Adult beverages, you say? Tell me more...

[toolsheds]

2 minutes ago, wxtrix said:

our a/c is being fixed as I type. the house has been in the high 80s the last few days.

Happy for you!

[RIC_WX]

14 hours ago, Stormfly said:

Which units do you have?

I'm curious about this because a few years ago I was indeed told this was possible and I was skeptical but have been out of the trade for 30 years.

 

EDIT:  Most of the % of nameplate COP I'm seeing on charts bottoms out at +5F.  Perhaps they meant -20 centigrade instead of Fahrenheit! LOL

Even still, here in MD it's good enough for me.  Wood isn't going anywhere and it's the most comfortable heat bar none.

Mine are Midea units (branded Pioneer).  Best available for the buck assuming you can install them (these are functionally the same as the heralded "Mr. Cool" models but do NOT utilize the DIY friendly precharged lineset and require traditional evacuation on install).  Midea, Mitsubishi, Fujitsu, Daikin make the majority of the worlds supply under literally hundreds of brand names.  The Midea factory in China is reported (believed) to be the largest production facility of it's type in the world.  The Goodman / Daikin combined production facility in Houston, TX is still the largest in NA.

I have a 24K unit that is rated to +5F and a 9K unit that is "hyperheat" and rated to -13*F.  Basically, the HH units have an enhanced defrost system to deal with the icing.  The unit I am installing in my loft is a 2 head 18K unit (so 9K BTU per head) and pretty sure this one is rated to -13F / 22 SEER cooling.  

If it is under 40*F at the cabin, and if I am around, I am burning cordwood exclusively.  The mini-splits are a desirable heating option between 32*-60*F, with a COP of approximately 5 above 50*F.  I also have electric baseboard but mostly installed this to satisfy permit requirements (avoiding manual J requirements with the mini-splits, which wasn't possible with unfinished construction) and use this near exclusively to maintain 50*F temperatures when the cabin is unoccupied.

[Stormfly]

Those are good units.  Not a fan of precharged lines but it's understandable for them to be made to accommodate the DIY crowd.  My nearly 40 year old belt drive Sargent-Welch 18 CFM vacuum pump can still pull a 0.005 micron vacuum.

And ditto on wood heat!  There's just no way to describe the feeling of coming in from outside working or whatever in the snow and propping feet up by a roaring fire! (even though 90% of the time it's hidden in a steel box!)

[H2O]

6 hours ago, mattie g said:

As a team rep, my job is a lot bigger than it is for other parents, so it's kind of hard to say. My co-rep and I have been meeting since January. Those were just preliminary meetings, but they started ramping up in March as we got the new website going and started general planning for the season. We see each other almost every day at the bus stop, so we always have a little chat about things, and of course we see each other at practices now. We're also always texting about plans, budget, etc. and coordinating on communications to the families. I'm fully expecting it to get even crazier in a couple weeks as we start real planning for the meets and coordinating with the coaches and data coordinators on getting the meet sheets squared away.

My wife ran concessions last year, which was a huge job. People like Referee, Data Coordinator, Starter, and Chief Timer (among others) have a big part to play, but their jobs are generally "just" day of meets (Data Coordinator is more than just day of). I always mention that we're a small team, and that means that we need lots of families to get really involved. It's a decent amount of work for everyone, but we all generally like each other, so that's a huge help!

I mean...if you have nothing better to do, then you might as well get down to the pool to help!

We have some folks on our team who get involved like you do. They sign up for official volunteer slots, but they end up doing a ton more before, during, and after meets. I'm already seeing how important these folks are for us, so we always let them know how appreciated they are!

Adult beverages, you say? Tell me more...

Soooooo, at our second to last B meet last year we were at another pool.  And while working that meet as assist chief timer we were told that there was a "special" cooler for officials.  That it was that pools last meet tradition to have fun and just let rip.  it was a bit hit with our pool people that were working that meet.  So after talking to one of our team reps I said I wanted to do the same thing.  Our last B meet was mainly for the small kids that didn't get to swim much or do A meets.  So it was a meet for them.  A less "official" meet and since it was our last one it didn't matter cause all stars was next.  Divisionals was done.  

I made up a giant cooler with margarita mix and rail tequila.  And quietly let my timers know there was a "special adult" cooler.  My way to reward the ones that sweated meet after meet both A and B and just enjoy things.  Made sure to stress we were not to blame for anyone getting snockered.  Personal responsibility and all that jazz.  

It was needed IMO.  See, on this climb we've been on from the division where you are to where we are now, something has been lost.  The joy of just having fun has been replaced with people only caring about times and points and status.  We literally now get people who just use our pool as a "rental" in that we are high enough division wise that it is for bragging rights for their kids.  Exposure, etc.  They don't care about the pool itself.  Its just a vessel for them.  A stepping stone.  If we fall they will bail.  So what better way to foster community than to get people to have fun and loosen up.  Booze helps that lol.  We will see if we do it again.  I hope so.

[mattie g]

42 minutes ago, H2O said:

 

Dude…that’s an awesome story! I love the idea of letting the folks who worked hard all season to have a little fun at the end of it all.

Our last B Meet is away, last A Meet is at home. We also have the Lollipop Meet a couple days before Divisionals. Might need to see if the folks want to stick around for afternoon drinks after that last A Meet. Now to coordinate with my concessions-lead wife!

As for the part about the rise from lower to higher divisions, I can only imagine. It’s really too bad that the nature of summer swim seems to have been lost for you guys, but I love that you’re trying to recapture at least some of it.

 I’ve been really intrigued by a team near me that has gone from a perennial Division 11-12 team to Division 3 in just a few seasons. I dont think I’d want that for us because I’m sure a lot of that fun is lost, but I’d love at least grow our team to the point that we don’t have to worry a out filling lanes or having a relay for an age group. That’s kind of my goal over the next couple years. We’ll see if we can at least make some strides!

[Maestrobjwa]

Trying not to be upset about our winters anymore...but I swear everytime I see a tweet about the frickin' long Nina still going strong...it's dang depressing, I'm telling ya. It kinda dampens whatever great mood I'm in, and I hate that it has that much power. Ya know I read something the other day about Ninas potentially becoming more prevalent? (Just a theory, but still). And thinking about last winter looking just like the last two is crap. But maybe just not tracking will make it a bit better.

I know it's just June but my brain keeps going to next winter imagining what's gonna happen.

Ya wish it were different, nut...I have control over it. Ya just wish it were different...but it ain't. It's not right, but  And I don't travel great right now...but eventually when I'm in a better life position I may just have to take the advice and make a trip north (or heck, drive down to s/se Maryland in January) to see some good snow. Meanwhile, just gotta find a way to suck it up and not dwell on it (not easy to do, lol)

[SnowenOutThere]

8 hours ago, Maestrobjwa said:

And thinking about last winter looking just like the last two is crap

It wasn’t though, for some yards it wasn’t great last winter but most of those yards did decently well 2 winters ago (I think at least, lots of ice events in the lowlands so I would assume they got some snow). You also keep blaming the Nina but I think your real problem is with our base climo, we just don’t snow a lot unless you go into the mountains. To further that point even with the Nina we almost got several good events and some people did! Our issue was blocking, not the pacific side, if we had blocking a lot of those costal scrappers would have been hits. 

[Kmlwx]

Annual departmental fishing charter tomorrow - not sure how good things will be with the storms/heavy rain in the area yesterday. All that runoff will probably be heading for the bay. If nothing else, the weather looks fantastic. 

[Kay]

12 hours ago, Maestrobjwa said:

Trying not to be upset about our winters anymore...but I swear everytime I see a tweet about the frickin' long Nina still going strong...it's dang depressing, I'm telling ya. It kinda dampens whatever great mood I'm in, and I hate that it has that much power. Ya know I read something the other day about Ninas potentially becoming more prevalent? (Just a theory, but still). And thinking about last winter looking just like the last two is crap. But maybe just not tracking will make it a bit better.

I know it's just June but my brain keeps going to next winter imagining what's gonna happen.

Ya wish it were different, nut...I have control over it. Ya just wish it were different...but it ain't. It's not right, but  And I don't travel great right now...but eventually when I'm in a better life position I may just have to take the advice and make a trip north (or heck, drive down to s/se Maryland in January) to see some good snow. Meanwhile, just gotta find a way to suck it up and not dwell on it (not easy to do, lol)

Maybe try kicking back with some Nina Simone

[Maestrobjwa]

9 hours ago, SnowenOutThere said:

It wasn’t though, for some yards it wasn’t great last winter but most of those yards did decently well 2 winters ago (I think at least, lots of ice events in the lowlands so I would assume they got some snow). You also keep blaming the Nina but I think your real problem is with our base climo, we just don’t snow a lot unless you go into the mountains. To further that point even with the Nina we almost got several good events and some people did! Our issue was blocking, not the pacific side, if we had blocking a lot of those costal scrappers would have been hits. 

In Ninas we're always "almost" getting good things. But we're always too far north/wrong side of the bay. And the same people (the south and east part of the forum) get good events in ninas. 

And yes, has my yard had some bad fortune? Yes. A couple times a few ticks north and it's 6+...so maybe I am a bit sour. Even so...to go this long without one that Central MD can cash in on is kinda bad.

I do agree that we've got unlucky with blocking and temperatures the last two years...2020-21 good blocking bad temps, last winter good temps no blocking, smh

And to your point about base climo...When was the last time we went 7 years without a warning event? Last 30 years that has not happened. You'd have your poor years then a boom year (a year where you get something 6+ inches, or a foot) a couple more lean years, a boom, etc...But the last in the last 7 not one that produced more than a few inches at a time. My idea of our base climo is the last 30 years. You got a good one every 3-4 years...I'm used to that.

These last 7 have broken the pattern big time--and included more ninas than any 7-year stretch we've had since the 70s (those who were around know how mediocre those years were)That's worse than our base climo!