etudiant Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 It may be just me, but I find that stunning. Calibrating a thermometer is not rocket science. For an official instrument to be several degrees in error is just gross. The response, that the NWS is investigating the situation is not helpful. The errors simply perpetuate unless real action is taken. In a busy organization with lots of immediate responsibilities, it is understandable that no line person has time to troubleshoot the issue and fix it. So the buck stops with the NWS branch which has responsibility for the selection, placement and maintenance of the instrumentation. Is there such a branch or is this a local responsibility? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 I never liked electronic observations...sometimes the temperature is off a bit compared with my back up mercury thermometer...I don't like tipping bucket rain gages...The one I had was 10% less than my 4" plastic one...now its electronic and you get unknown precipitation at times...snow measurements by armatures are off too... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Even this NYT story from July 1977 highlights that Central Park was warmer than LGA before the tree growth. Central Park actually had the highest temperature readings during the famous July 1977 heatwave. This isn’t possible anymore with the dense vegetation around the thermometer. https://www.nytimes.com/1977/07/22/archives/vandals-in-central-park-forcing-weather-service-to-seek-new-site.html When the devices at the castle are not functioning, the Weather Service substitutes readings from La Guardia Airport. But Mr. Gibson said those readings do not really reflect conditions in the city, because they may be several degrees cooler in summer or warmer in winter than those in Central Park. Much different than this more recent article in 2013. https://pix11.com/news/baked-apple-new-yorkers-sweating-through-worst-heatwave-of-the-summer/ “[The Central Park Conservancy is] almost making it like a shaded, tropical rainforest, so to speak,” said Schlacter about the weather station’s location, which is surrounded by lush, green trees, bushes and weeds that grew even thicker in the near-record rains of this past spring. “It’s keeping temperatures cooler than some of the true urban areas,” Schlacter said. A more accurate reading, according to Schlacter, “We actually like Newark Airport to represent what everybody feels in the five boroughs [and beyond].” Data for NY CITY CENTRAL PARK, NYClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Date Max Temperature Min Temperature 1977-07-13 93 73 1977-07-14 92 73 1977-07-15 96 72 1977-07-16 98 75 1977-07-17 97 78 1977-07-18 100 78 1977-07-19 102 78 1977-07-20 92 75 1977-07-21 104 78 Data for NEWARK LIBERTY INTL AP, NJClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Date Max Temperature Min Temperature 1977-07-13 92 73 1977-07-14 91 73 1977-07-15 93 71 1977-07-16 97 72 1977-07-17 99 77 1977-07-18 98 75 1977-07-19 100 78 1977-07-20 90 75 1977-07-21 102 78 Data for LAGUARDIA AIRPORT, NYClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Date Max Temperature Min Temperature 1977-07-13 92 72 1977-07-14 89 72 1977-07-15 90 69 1977-07-16 96 72 1977-07-17 95 74 1977-07-18 95 76 1977-07-19 99 75 1977-07-20 90 74 1977-07-21 99 78 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 average yearly max for Newark and Central Park... ..................Newark...............Central Park..............difference..... years..........ave max..............ave max...............+- 1933-39.......98.7......................99.4...................+0.7 1940-49.......99.9......................98.5...................-1.4 1950-59......100.1.......................98.1....................-2.0 1960-69........98.0......................97.3....................-0.7 1970-79.........97.1.......................96.5....................-0.6 1980-89........99.0......................97.6.....................-1.4 1990-99.......101.0......................97.9.....................-3.1 2000-09........98.7......................95.5....................-3.2 2010-19........100.5.....................97.5.....................-3.0 2020-21.........99.5.....................97.0.....................-2.5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 11 hours ago, bluewave said: Even this NYT story from July 1977 highlights that Central Park was warmer than LGA before the tree growth. Central Park actually had the highest temperature readings during the famous July 1977 heatwave. This isn’t possible anymore with the dense vegetation around the thermometer. https://www.nytimes.com/1977/07/22/archives/vandals-in-central-park-forcing-weather-service-to-seek-new-site.html When the devices at the castle are not functioning, the Weather Service substitutes readings from La Guardia Airport. But Mr. Gibson said those readings do not really reflect conditions in the city, because they may be several degrees cooler in summer or warmer in winter than those in Central Park. Much different than this more recent article in 2013. https://pix11.com/news/baked-apple-new-yorkers-sweating-through-worst-heatwave-of-the-summer/ “[The Central Park Conservancy is] almost making it like a shaded, tropical rainforest, so to speak,” said Schlacter about the weather station’s location, which is surrounded by lush, green trees, bushes and weeds that grew even thicker in the near-record rains of this past spring. “It’s keeping temperatures cooler than some of the true urban areas,” Schlacter said. A more accurate reading, according to Schlacter, “We actually like Newark Airport to represent what everybody feels in the five boroughs [and beyond].” Data for NY CITY CENTRAL PARK, NYClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Date Max Temperature Min Temperature 1977-07-13 93 73 1977-07-14 92 73 1977-07-15 96 72 1977-07-16 98 75 1977-07-17 97 78 1977-07-18 100 78 1977-07-19 102 78 1977-07-20 92 75 1977-07-21 104 78 Data for NEWARK LIBERTY INTL AP, NJClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Date Max Temperature Min Temperature 1977-07-13 92 73 1977-07-14 91 73 1977-07-15 93 71 1977-07-16 97 72 1977-07-17 99 77 1977-07-18 98 75 1977-07-19 100 78 1977-07-20 90 75 1977-07-21 102 78 Data for LAGUARDIA AIRPORT, NYClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Date Max Temperature Min Temperature 1977-07-13 92 72 1977-07-14 89 72 1977-07-15 90 69 1977-07-16 96 72 1977-07-17 95 74 1977-07-18 95 76 1977-07-19 99 75 1977-07-20 90 74 1977-07-21 99 78 LGA area has also gotten much hotter and much more built up. They always bake early in the morning too-- I never trust temperatures from that part of the city. Best approach is to use an average of all area sites EWR,JFK,NYC,LGA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 2 hours ago, uncle W said: average yearly max for Newark and Central Park... ..................Newark...............Central Park..............difference..... years..........ave max..............ave max...............+- 1933-39.......98.7......................99.4...................+0.7 1940-49.......99.9......................98.5...................-1.4 1950-59......100.1.......................98.1....................-2.0 1960-69........98.0......................97.3....................-0.7 1970-79.........97.1.......................96.5....................-0.6 1980-89........99.0......................97.6.....................-1.4 1990-99.......101.0......................97.9.....................-3.1 2000-09........98.7......................95.5....................-3.2 2010-19........100.5.....................97.5.....................-3.0 2020-21.........99.5.....................97.0.....................-2.5 as I thought the 90s were in a league of their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 11 hours ago, bluewave said: Even this NYT story from July 1977 highlights that Central Park was warmer than LGA before the tree growth. Central Park actually had the highest temperature readings during the famous July 1977 heatwave. This isn’t possible anymore with the dense vegetation around the thermometer. https://www.nytimes.com/1977/07/22/archives/vandals-in-central-park-forcing-weather-service-to-seek-new-site.html When the devices at the castle are not functioning, the Weather Service substitutes readings from La Guardia Airport. But Mr. Gibson said those readings do not really reflect conditions in the city, because they may be several degrees cooler in summer or warmer in winter than those in Central Park. Much different than this more recent article in 2013. https://pix11.com/news/baked-apple-new-yorkers-sweating-through-worst-heatwave-of-the-summer/ “[The Central Park Conservancy is] almost making it like a shaded, tropical rainforest, so to speak,” said Schlacter about the weather station’s location, which is surrounded by lush, green trees, bushes and weeds that grew even thicker in the near-record rains of this past spring. “It’s keeping temperatures cooler than some of the true urban areas,” Schlacter said. A more accurate reading, according to Schlacter, “We actually like Newark Airport to represent what everybody feels in the five boroughs [and beyond].” Data for NY CITY CENTRAL PARK, NYClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Date Max Temperature Min Temperature 1977-07-13 93 73 1977-07-14 92 73 1977-07-15 96 72 1977-07-16 98 75 1977-07-17 97 78 1977-07-18 100 78 1977-07-19 102 78 1977-07-20 92 75 1977-07-21 104 78 Data for NEWARK LIBERTY INTL AP, NJClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Date Max Temperature Min Temperature 1977-07-13 92 73 1977-07-14 91 73 1977-07-15 93 71 1977-07-16 97 72 1977-07-17 99 77 1977-07-18 98 75 1977-07-19 100 78 1977-07-20 90 75 1977-07-21 102 78 Data for LAGUARDIA AIRPORT, NYClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Date Max Temperature Min Temperature 1977-07-13 92 72 1977-07-14 89 72 1977-07-15 90 69 1977-07-16 96 72 1977-07-17 95 74 1977-07-18 95 76 1977-07-19 99 75 1977-07-20 90 74 1977-07-21 99 78 Didn't JFK also exceed 100 during the 1977 heatwave? 102 or 103? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_other_guy Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 7 hours ago, LibertyBell said: Didn't JFK also exceed 100 during the 1977 heatwave? 102 or 103? Dont get heat like that anymore! Wow! It is plays a great background in the book the Bronx is Burning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 7 hours ago, LibertyBell said: LGA area has also gotten much hotter and much more built up. They always bake early in the morning too-- I never trust temperatures from that part of the city. Best approach is to use an average of all area sites EWR,JFK,NYC,LGA The whole area has gotten much hotter. But the tree growth at NYC is masking the summer daytime warming. If anything, the LGA ASOS is too close to the water. So it’s subject to cooler breezes at times. Last summer the warmest part of NYC was in Central Queens just south of LGA. The 6-30-21 high at LGA was 100° and 102° at Corona. So that section of Queens was comparable to the area around Newark.The new micronet snapshot from early afternoon illustrated what was happening. There was a local convergence zone just north of the sea breeze front. The warmth probably was enhanced by some local downsloping off the higher moraine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_other_guy Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 13 minutes ago, bluewave said: The whole area has gotten much hotter. But the tree growth at NYC is masking the summer daytime warming. If anything, the LGA ASOS is too close to the water. So it’s subject to cooler breezes at times. Last summer the warmest part of NYC was in Central Queens just south of LGA. The 6-30-21 high at LGA was 100° and 102° at Corona. So that section of Queens was comparable to the area around Newark.The new micronet snapshot from early afternoon illustrated what was happening. There was a local convergence zone just north of the sea breeze front. The warmth probably was enhanced by some local downsloping off the higher moraine. I believe it. I lived in Astoria from 11-15. In the summer I never lived any place hotter or more miserable in terms of humidity than Astoria. It was a stagnant fetid air that didn’t move at all. The night time was the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 8 hours ago, LibertyBell said: Didn't JFK also exceed 100 during the 1977 heatwave? 102 or 103? JFK only made it to 95° during the 1977 heatwave. We had strong sea breezes with that event along the South Shore. The SSTs were much cooler in the 1970s especially after the record breaking cold 76-77 winter. Data for January 1, 1977 through December 31, 1977Click column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. State Name Station Type Highest Max Temperature NY NEW YORK LAUREL HILL COOP 104 NY NY CITY CENTRAL PARK WBAN 104 NY DOBBS FERRY-ARDSLEY COOP 103 NJ NEWARK LIBERTY INTL AP WBAN 102 CT NORWALK GAS PLANT COOP 102 NJ ESSEX FELLS SERVICE BLDG COOP 101 NY WEST POINT COOP 101 NY VANDERBILT MUSEUM COOP 101 NJ PLAINFIELD COOP 100 NJ CRANFORD COOP 100 NY NEW YORK AVE V BROOKLYN COOP 100 NY NY WESTERLEIGH STAT IS COOP 100 NJ LITTLE FALLS COOP 100 NY MARYKNOLL COOP 100 NY SCARSDALE COOP 100 CT NEW HAVEN COOP 100 CT MIDDLETOWN 4 W COOP 100 CT STAMFORD 5 N COOP 100 NJ CANOE BROOK COOP 99 NY LAGUARDIA AIRPORT WBAN 99 NJ WANAQUE RAYMOND DAM COOP 99 NY SUFFERN COOP 99 CT DANBURY COOP 99 NY WESTCHESTER CO AP WBAN 99 NY SETAUKET STRONG COOP 99 CT GROTON COOP 99 NY CARMEL COOP 98 CT NORWICH PUBLIC UTILITY PLANT COOP 98 NY WALDEN 1 ESE COOP 98 NJ JERSEY CITY COOP 97 NY MIDDLETOWN 2 NW COOP 97 NY YORKTOWN HEIGHTS 1W COOP 97 CT NEW HAVEN TWEED AP WBAN 97 CT MOUNT CARMEL COOP 97 NY RIVERHEAD RESEARCH FARM COOP 97 NY MINEOLA COOP 97 NY PATCHOGUE 2 N COOP 96 NY ISLIP-LI MACARTHUR AP WBAN 96 NY PORT JERVIS COOP 95 NJ CHARLOTTEBURG RESERVOIR COOP 95 NY JFK INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT WBAN 95 NY GREENPORT POWER HOUSE COOP 94 CT PUTNAM LAKE COOP 94 CT WESTBROOK COOP 93 NY BRIDGEHAMPTON COOP 93 NY MONTAUK COOP 93 CT IGOR I SIKORSKY MEMORIAL AIRPORT WBAN 93 NY WANTAGH CEDAR CREEK COOP 91 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkyfork Posted May 11, 2022 Author Share Posted May 11, 2022 all those high dewpoint events we get now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 1 hour ago, forkyfork said: all those high dewpoint events we get now Yeah, matches all the record high dewpoints and flash flood events in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 On 5/11/2022 at 2:46 PM, bluewave said: Yeah, matches all the record high dewpoints and flash flood events in recent years. Rather get the high temperature records, higher dew points aren't all that exciting and they make the sky really dirty. Water Vapor being such a powerful greenhouse gas-- is there any way to remove the excess from the atmosphere with some kind of giant dehumidifying machine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 25 minutes ago, LibertyBell said: Rather get the high temperature records, higher dew points aren't all that exciting and they make the sky really dirty. Water Vapor being such a powerful greenhouse gas-- is there any way to remove the excess from the atmosphere with some kind of giant dehumidifying machine? High temperature records are increasing quickly also. Just look at how many daily high temperature records have been set since 2010. JFK is the only station lagging a bit in the summer due to the stronger onshore flow since the super El Niño. But it has been making it up with all the new dew point records. https://threadex.rcc-acis.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 4 hours ago, bluewave said: High temperature records are increasing quickly also. Just look at how many daily high temperature records have been set since 2010. JFK is the only station lagging a bit in the summer due to the stronger onshore flow since the super El Niño. But it has been making it up with all the new dew point records. https://threadex.rcc-acis.org Something I'm really interested in is when the atmosphere snaps back. You can only go so far before the planet's self-regulatory processes tilt things in the other direction. I've noticed that drought is spreading across large parts of the world, including Africa, Asia, the western part of our own continent, etc. I fully expect that eventually we'll also get into the drought that large parts of the planet are experiencing right now. I think that will make the temperatures spike much higher than they are right now. I think you've noticed the drier springs the last couple of years too, I believe within a few years that will extend to summer too. Hopefully we'll get into more of a mid 1960s type pattern with much drier years. Higher dew points tend to place a cap on how temperatures can get, but I think we'll break through the cap once we get into the kind of drought being experienced by large regions of the globe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 3 hours ago, LibertyBell said: Something I'm really interested in is when the atmosphere snaps back. You can only go so far before the planet's self-regulatory processes tilt things in the other direction. I've noticed that drought is spreading across large parts of the world, including Africa, Asia, the western part of our own continent, etc. I fully expect that eventually we'll also get into the drought that large parts of the planet are experiencing right now. I think that will make the temperatures spike much higher than they are right now. I think you've noticed the drier springs the last couple of years too, I believe within a few years that will extend to summer too. Hopefully we'll get into more of a mid 1960s type pattern with much drier years. Higher dew points tend to place a cap on how temperatures can get, but I think we'll break through the cap once we get into the kind of drought being experienced by large regions of the globe. The West becoming drier while the East gets wetter is part of the long term trend. So the precipitation response is different while the whole CONUS warms. Some studies show the drought spreading into the Plains in the future. But they are still wet in our area. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 5 hours ago, bluewave said: The West becoming drier while the East gets wetter is part of the long term trend. So the precipitation response is different while the whole CONUS warms. Some studies show the drought spreading into the Plains in the future. But they are still wet in our area. I remember you once said that once our source air gets drier, we would get drier too. How far east would the dryness need to get before it impacts us? Might be something 10 years out maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjay Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 Not local but jfc what's going on out west is incredible (in a bad way). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkyfork Posted September 14, 2022 Author Share Posted September 14, 2022 the three straight ninas are obviously playing a role but summer variability is on the decrease. just hot all the time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 It was nice to see a dry summer for a change. I had an idea tropical activity would be down this year after the slow start. We'll probably still make it to average but not the 15+ TC some were predicting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Star Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 So the earth has warmed about 1.8 degrees since the 1800s. Understandably, this is not uniform across the globe. Recently, the NYC metro area seems to greatly exceed that, which should mean that there are other areas that are "below normal"? Certainly the poles are above normal as evidenced by the glacier melting rate. We are being told that temperatures in Central and South America near the equator are getting warmer as well, which they say is one reason for the unprecendented migration. Again, the NYC metro area has been way above average almost every month for the last several years. This is explained by the unusually high Pacific ocean temperatures causing circulataions to bring warmer air straight up to Alaska and affect the normal jet stream patterns. Is the global warming causing this pattern to continue in an endless cycle, which would seem to suggest that global warming will increase even greater than the greenhouse gases effect (alone)? And where are the below normal temperature areas been occuring? As an aside, I find it astonishing that scientists agreed on the CFCs causing the ozone layer holes, and people acted accordingly. I assume there is not an agreed upon (objective) model proving global warming? Are the patterns so complex that you cannot develop a reliable model to predict global warming due to greenhouse gases? I would assume yes, as they found that the oceans did absorb some of the CO2, and throw one theory into a crash and burn. I am in the camp that believes the greenhouse gases are causing global warming. How to address it is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjay Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 February 2023 NJ tornado outbreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 4 hours ago, Rjay said: February 2023 NJ tornado outbreak Saw the coverage on the ground and via helicopter by WABC, that was downright scary! How often do we have confirmed tornadoes in January or February in our area? This one will be confirmed tomorrow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 On 10/21/2022 at 10:01 AM, Dark Star said: So the earth has warmed about 1.8 degrees since the 1800s. Understandably, this is not uniform across the globe. Recently, the NYC metro area seems to greatly exceed that, which should mean that there are other areas that are "below normal"? Certainly the poles are above normal as evidenced by the glacier melting rate. We are being told that temperatures in Central and South America near the equator are getting warmer as well, which they say is one reason for the unprecendented migration. Again, the NYC metro area has been way above average almost every month for the last several years. This is explained by the unusually high Pacific ocean temperatures causing circulataions to bring warmer air straight up to Alaska and affect the normal jet stream patterns. Is the global warming causing this pattern to continue in an endless cycle, which would seem to suggest that global warming will increase even greater than the greenhouse gases effect (alone)? And where are the below normal temperature areas been occuring? As an aside, I find it astonishing that scientists agreed on the CFCs causing the ozone layer holes, and people acted accordingly. I assume there is not an agreed upon (objective) model proving global warming? Are the patterns so complex that you cannot develop a reliable model to predict global warming due to greenhouse gases? I would assume yes, as they found that the oceans did absorb some of the CO2, and throw one theory into a crash and burn. I am in the camp that believes the greenhouse gases are causing global warming. How to address it is another matter. High Rockies like Montana and Idaho have warmed much less and possibly even cooled a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 That airmass wasn't exactly warm. It was 534 thicknesses. Just the right combo on ingredients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Just now, CoastalWx said: That airmass wasn't exactly warm. It was 534 thicknesses. Just the right combo on ingredients. record cold and record warmth in the CONUS at the same time, how much of a role did that play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Snow 1717 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 On 9/14/2022 at 1:19 PM, forkyfork said: the three straight ninas are obviously playing a role but summer variability is on the decrease. just hot all the time I agree but the climate change deniers will disagree 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Snow 1717 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 14 hours ago, LibertyBell said: Saw the coverage on the ground and via helicopter by WABC, that was downright scary! How often do we have confirmed tornadoes in January or February in our area? This one will be confirmed tomorrow. I'm not sure how accurate the list is in the Wiki article, but it would be the 3rd time that a tornado hit NJ in Feb. List of New Jersey tornadoes - Wikipedia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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