Probably The 13th Lawn Thread 2022

[RUNNAWAYICEBERG]

11 hours ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

 

 

The Holes are maybe a quarter to half inch at most? I suppose it could be ants, but I never see them, and they have been there since like late winter.

Ifs obviously affecting growth there. I’m hoping it’ll fill in. I flung some seed down on Sunday.

I would tackle the problem first before flinging seeds down though. It’s like putting a band aid on a deep bone bruise…something like that. It could work though but it could also be so temporary that you’ll be right back at it in a few months. 

[tunafish]

On 4/21/2022 at 4:12 PM, OceanStWx said:

I was going to try and go the natural route with the kids playing in the yard, but based on what I saw I think I might nuke it. 

Nematodes, my man. Haven't found a grub since treating 2 years ago. They will be more effective and environmentally safe than any chemical.

[dendrite]

3 hours ago, tunafish said:

Nematodes, my man. Haven't found a grub since treating 2 years ago. They will be more effective and environmentally safe than any chemical.

So you only had to treat once? I'm still leaning that route, but tiny worms still scare me with my chickens. I know these are beneficial and considered safe for animals, but anything roundworm gives me pause.

[OceanStWx]

13 hours ago, tunafish said:

Nematodes, my man. Haven't found a grub since treating 2 years ago. They will be more effective and environmentally safe than any chemical.

That was my plan, but in reading up on it, it sounds like I may have missed my chance to do it as they won't really target what's in the ground now. I may have to wait until later in summer to get the newly hatched grubs.

[tunafish]

18 hours ago, dendrite said:

So you only had to treat once? I'm still leaning that route, but tiny worms still scare me with my chickens. I know these are beneficial and considered safe for animals, but anything roundworm gives me pause.

I ended up treating in the spring and fall, but essentially two different areas of the lawn.  I didn't have chickens at the time, but I'm with you...I don't think I would have treated anywhere near their run (we don't let them free range in the actual yard, anyways, but still...)

 

7 hours ago, OceanStWx said:

That was my plan, but in reading up on it, it sounds like I may have missed my chance to do it as they won't really target what's in the ground now. I may have to wait until later in summer to get the newly hatched grubs.

The optimal time is definitely in the late summer.  I did do one spring application and it seemed to stop the damage area.  I have an area on the far edge of my property I'm watching right now, the only area I've never treated.  I'd like to hit it before they hatch and lay more in the areas I've already treated, so I'm waiting for the right conditions.  I need the soil temp to be above 44F and for it to be a nice cloudy wet day (like today).  Might get the temp high enough next week, we'll see.

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

Planted my potatoes today. We’ll see how much 2 pounds of seed potatoes produce 

[Chrisrotary12]

Going to have to mow my clover field soon. Getting nice and tall. 

[dendrite]

2 minutes ago, Chrisrotary12 said:

Going to have to mow my clover field soon. Getting nice and tall. 

Let it flower and drop seed first. 

[OceanStWx]

On 4/27/2022 at 8:08 AM, tunafish said:

I ended up treating in the spring and fall, but essentially two different areas of the lawn.  I didn't have chickens at the time, but I'm with you...I don't think I would have treated anywhere near their run (we don't let them free range in the actual yard, anyways, but still...)

 

The optimal time is definitely in the late summer.  I did do one spring application and it seemed to stop the damage area.  I have an area on the far edge of my property I'm watching right now, the only area I've never treated.  I'd like to hit it before they hatch and lay more in the areas I've already treated, so I'm waiting for the right conditions.  I need the soil temp to be above 44F and for it to be a nice cloudy wet day (like today).  Might get the temp high enough next week, we'll see.

Worms where the kids play definitely got my attention too, but from what I've read this type doesn't survive above 30C, so they die if ingested.

[tunafish]

8 hours ago, OceanStWx said:

Worms where the kids play definitely got my attention too, but from what I've read this type doesn't survive above 30C, so they die if ingested.

your kids eat worms, too?  I thought mine might be the only ones...

[tunafish]

I think I'm going to give this a shot. No Mow May.

Grass up here isn't at mowing length yet, anyways, and dandelions and creeping Charlie are just starting to bloom.

https://beecityusa.org/no-mow-may/

Side benefit:  It'll drive the monochrome-striving, always-fertilizing, over-watering neighbors nuts too.

[dendrite]

1 hour ago, tunafish said:

I think I'm going to give this a shot. No Mow May.

Grass up here isn't at mowing length yet, anyways, and dandelions and creeping Charlie are just starting to bloom.

https://beecityusa.org/no-mow-may/

Side benefit:  It'll drive the monochrome-striving, always-fertilizing, over-watering neighbors nuts too.

I purposely grew my lawn long one time and my neighbor came into my yard and mowed it. lol 

He likes to scalp his yard, but they’re worried about Lyme over there. I know his wife and one of the kids have it. 

[CoastalWx]

2 hours ago, tunafish said:

I think I'm going to give this a shot. No Mow May.

Grass up here isn't at mowing length yet, anyways, and dandelions and creeping Charlie are just starting to bloom.

https://beecityusa.org/no-mow-may/

Side benefit:  It'll drive the monochrome-striving, always-fertilizing, over-watering neighbors nuts too.

Go Lawnless.      Lets just pretend we live in El Paso and get 40 yds of river stone delivered.

[tunafish]

56 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

Go Lawnless.      Lets just pretend we live in El Paso and get 40 yds of river stone delivered.

I know you're joking but that actually is the long term goal.  Maybe not 100% of the lawn but hopefully 75% of it. 

Each year we reduce the size of the lawn via lasagna gardening and woodchip (free from the city) paths.  After a winter to "cook down", the space is ready to plant flowers, food, trees - whatever. 

Way less maintenance than a lawn and actually produces food for us and the bees.

[CoastalWx]

5 minutes ago, tunafish said:

I know you're joking but that actually is the long term goal.  Maybe not 100% of the lawn but hopefully 75% of it. 

Each year we reduce the size of the lawn via lasagna gardening and woodchip (free from the city) paths.  After a winter to "cook down", the space is ready to plant flowers, food, trees - whatever. 

Way less maintenance than a lawn and actually produces food for us and the bees.

I don't view a lawn as some do. Yes it takes up the most real estate of the property, but it combines nicely with the plant beds, trees, Rock outcrops etc that I have.  I do appreciate that aspect of it. 

I get the plant gardens, but what happens when I have thousands and thousands of sq feet of plants that need to be watered constantly in the summer? When it gets hot and dry, I don't water my lawn like I do with plantings etc. So I dunno...for me I'm not sure that method is as Earth Friendly. At least in my area.

[tunafish]

1 minute ago, CoastalWx said:

I don't view a lawn as some do. Yes it takes up the most real estate of the property, but it combines nicely with the plant beds, trees, Rock outcrops etc that I have.  I do appreciate that aspect of it. 

I get the plant gardens, but what happens when I have thousands and thousands of sq feet of plants that need to be watered constantly in the summer? When it gets hot and dry, I don't water my lawn like I do with plantings etc. So I dunno...for me I'm not sure that method is as Earth Friendly. At least in my area.

it's not for everyone, for sure.  The whole concept requires planning, and initial work to create the gardens.  It's cheap(er) because you're using materials you have on hand (compost, cardboard), and once the gardens are going it's little maintenance. 

The lasagna method is super effective at moisture retention, which helps, and we're selective about what we plant and where to minimize maintenance an maximize plant health.  We have four 55 gallon rain barrels, and for areas that require more frequent watering we're attaching either drip lines or just attach a hose, open the spigot, and let them gravity feed (they're up on risers).

[dendrite]

I’ve got my own little food forest going in the corner of the yard by the chooks and the mini pawpaw orchard. I’ve been wanting to cover that area of grass up with a nice layer of wood chips like in the run, but I haven’t gone there yet. We have a lot of clover there so I just let it keep fixing nitrogen to the N happy pawpaws. I have a honeycrisp planted and a couple more bare root apple trees on the way. I’m also experimenting with grafting a bunch of different varieties of apples onto antonovka rootstock. My grapes trellising over the fence of the run will be going on year 2 and I have 4 honeyberry bushes to plant. That doesn’t include the crabapple, peach, and 2 pear trees we already had when we moved there. 

I’m not at James Prigioni’s level, but I do like the concept of getting functional use out of your property for you and the wildlife versus a synthetic, pesticide/herbicide laden lawn that isn’t natural and isn’t self sustaining. Suburban Americans in the 50s and 60s decided it was important to have a lush, grass-only lawn. I try to encourage people I know away from that. 

I don’t mean to poo all over frankenstein lawns in the lawn thread, but it’s just my thoughts on the subject. 

[tunafish]

7 minutes ago, dendrite said:

I do like the concept of getting functional use out of your property for you and the wildlife versus a synthetic, pesticide/herbicide laden lawn that isn’t natural and isn’t self sustaining. Suburban Americans in the 50s and 60s decided it was important to have a lush, grass-only lawn. I try to encourage people I know away from that. 

Sounds like you have a lot going on, amazing.  And I'm right there with you on the quoted part.  I don't mean to dump on others either.  I think there's a misconception out there that having a functional/sustainable yard is way more work than maintaining a lawn.  It's really not, especially for properties <1 acre.  The amount of time and money sunk into lawn care is equitable to creating what we're aiming for, and you actually get something (food) out of it.

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

So far so good on the bare root stuff I bought earlier this month.

American Cranberry bushes and lilac bushes are starting to leaf out a bit.

[Lava Rock]

GrubX now or end of month? Yes, I'm still considering the nematodes:)

[NW_of_GYX]

6 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

GrubX now or end of month? Yes, I'm still considering the nematodes:)

Give up man! might be time to consider some of those grassless landscaping concepts they're promoting out west. Just pea stone, mulch, and wood chip the whole yard. 

[Lava Rock]

Just now, NW_of_GYX said:

Give up man! might be time to consider some of those grassless landscaping concepts they're promoting out west. Just pea stone, mulch, and wood chip the whole yard. 

No way. The "lawn" is making a comeback. Golf course quality by Fall

[tunafish]

23 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

GrubX now or end of month? Yes, I'm still considering the nematodes:)

This may come to you as a shock, but...

Nematodes now and again in late August

Although, with this dry stretch coming up the only day you'd have to apply is tomorrow, so you may be able to use them unless you plan on watering the area in the evening when you apply them, and then again the next morning AND evening to ensure the soil stays moist enough for them to do their thing.

[BrianW]

2 hours ago, Lava Rock said:

GrubX now or end of month? Yes, I'm still considering the nematodes:)

Look into this newer product grubgone that contains a soil borne bacteria. Its not cheap but way better for the environment and pollinators. I read a few studies done on it from Uconn and UMass and it's appears to be extremely effective on grubs.  In some tests it performed better on grubs than the popular Merit insecticide. 

Also works on gypsy moths and other pests. 

https://growitnaturally.com/products/grubgone

http://www.ladybug.uconn.edu/FactSheets/bacillus-thuringiensis.php

[CoastalWx]

10 minutes ago, BrianW said:

Look into this newer product grubgone that contains a soil borne bacteria. Its not cheap but way better for the environment and pollinators. I read a few studies done on it from Uconn and UMass and it's appears to be extremely effective on grubs.  In some tests it performed better on grubs than the popular Merit insecticide. 

Also works on gypsy moths and other pests. 

https://growitnaturally.com/products/grubgone

http://www.ladybug.uconn.edu/FactSheets/bacillus-thuringiensis.php

Wonder if that's the bacteria used when I had the trees sprayed a few times. I had a caterpillar issue (tent or winter moths type thing) and we had a company spray the trees. Was raining down caterpillars the next day. It was some sort of bacteria.

[dendrite]

• Proven to not harm, bees, pollinators or other beneficial insects 
(such as parasitic wasps and beneficial nematodes that also kill grubs).

I see no mention of earthworms? I would only want to kill the non-native insects.

[Lava Rock]

1 hour ago, dendrite said:

• Proven to not harm, bees, pollinators or other beneficial insects 
(such as parasitic wasps and beneficial nematodes that also kill grubs).

I see no mention of earthworms? I would only want to kill the non-native insects.

An amazon review mentioned that they saw fewer earthworms after product use FWIW.

[CoastalWx]

What about Milky spore?

[BrianW]

2 hours ago, dendrite said:

• Proven to not harm, bees, pollinators or other beneficial insects 
(such as parasitic wasps and beneficial nematodes that also kill grubs).

I see no mention of earthworms? I would only want to kill the non-native insects.

Its host specific. See the Uconn link in my first post. 

Particular strains of Bt proteins are host-specific, binding to certain receptors in the insect's gut wall like a lock and key. It is important to use the strain of Bt that targets a certain pest. New to the home market in 2015 was the strain Bacillus thuringiensis galleriae (Btg) which is reportedly effective against both the adult and grub forms of Japanese, Asian, and Oriental beetles, all of which cause large amounts of damage to turf. The following are some of the most commonly used Bt strains:

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

Carrot sprouts today… 9 days after planting