New England Met Spring Banter 2022

[Hoth]

2 hours ago, BrianW said:

I use to work in a lot commercial buildings and you would be amazed on how many fire systems are completely neglected and not working. Sprinkler rooms that look like they have been leaking for a decade with the last service tag from 12 years ago. I have seen tons of building fire panels just dead and not even have power. So many companies skimp on maintaining their fire systems and most towns and cities have no annual inspections on that stuff so places get away with neglecting it. I bet sadly that's exactly what happened here.

Most of the sprinkler systems  that far up north are filled with compressed air due to the freeze risk. There is a valve that is supposed to activate when a sprinkler head or two activates and it senses the air pressure drop and sends water to the pipes. They are very complicated systems compared to ones that are just pressurized with water. The air pumps that keep the system pressurized are known to have issues and if the pump is dead the sprinklers won't work at all. 

That is disturbing. We do quarterly inspections of all sprinkler systems and fire panels. For our larger commercial spaces, we do weekly pump tests to make sure all the equipment is ready to rock. I can't even imagine letting that stuff just go offline.

[Cold Miser]

3 hours ago, BrianW said:

I use to work in a lot commercial buildings and you would be amazed on how many fire systems are completely neglected and not working. Sprinkler rooms that look like they have been leaking for a decade with the last service tag from 12 years ago. I have seen tons of building fire panels just dead and not even have power. So many companies skimp on maintaining their fire systems and most towns and cities have no annual inspections on that stuff so places get away with neglecting it. I bet sadly that's exactly what happened here.

Most of the sprinkler systems  that far up north are filled with compressed air due to the freeze risk. There is a valve that is supposed to activate when a sprinkler head or two activates and it senses the air pressure drop and sends water to the pipes. They are very complicated systems compared to ones that are just pressurized with water. The air pumps that keep the system pressurized are known to have issues and if the pump is dead the sprinklers won't work at all. 

I have 30+ conditioned buildings that I deal with where I work, with a good number of them sprinklered. Some of the buildings are over 100 years old.  Code has us checking the systems multiple times per year.

[SJonesWX]

4 hours ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

My guess is that place will never open its doors again, even if part of the building is able to be saved. No working smoke detectors or sprinklers, etc etc. it’s going to be a litigation nightmare 

Mr. Judge and jury, when you made the determination that the sprinklers were not working, did you know that the building was grandfathered, and did not require sprinklers? (although i agree that any commercial space should have them regardless). when you determined that the smoke alarms were not working, did you consider possible reasons? Is it not possible that the alarms systems were maintained appropriately, however due to unforeseen circumstances did not work? or did you just jump to negligence without considering other factors? i mean, you could be right. but don’t you think that maybe there are facts that you don’t know?

however with all that said I also agree that the lawyers are probably lined up for potential litigation

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

31 minutes ago, SJonesWX said:

Mr. Judge and jury, when you made the determination that the sprinklers were not working, did you know that the building was grandfathered, and did not require sprinklers? (although i agree that any commercial space should have them regardless). when you determined that the smoke alarms were not working, did you consider possible reasons? Is it not possible that the alarms systems were maintained appropriately, however due to unforeseen circumstances did not work? or did you just jump to negligence without considering other factors? i mean, you could be right. but don’t you think that maybe there are facts that you don’t know?

however with all that said I also agree that the lawyers are probably lined up for potential litigation

Im just purely guessing. To me, regardless of why they weren’t working, it isn’t going to end well. We sue everyone for everything in this country. This will be no different. It could very well just be a total freak accident, who knows 

[Ginx snewx]

4 hours ago, Hoth said:

That is disturbing. We do quarterly inspections of all sprinkler systems and fire panels. For our larger commercial spaces, we do weekly pump tests to make sure all the equipment is ready to rock. I can't even imagine letting that stuff just go offline.

I did this for an occupation before becoming a facility manager.  It's totally incredible to me that a large hotel wasn't required to have quartelies , annuals and weeklies. Sick. They are extremely lucky no one died.

[Ginx snewx]

2 hours ago, SJonesWX said:

Mr. Judge and jury, when you made the determination that the sprinklers were not working, did you know that the building was grandfathered, and did not require sprinklers? (although i agree that any commercial space should have them regardless). when you determined that the smoke alarms were not working, did you consider possible reasons? Is it not possible that the alarms systems were maintained appropriately, however due to unforeseen circumstances did not work? or did you just jump to negligence without considering other factors? i mean, you could be right. but don’t you think that maybe there are facts that you don’t know?

however with all that said I also agree that the lawyers are probably lined up for potential litigation

Negligence 

[CoastalWx]

2 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

I did this for an occupation before becoming a facility manager.  It's totally incredible to me that a large hotel wasn't required to have quartelies , annuals and weeklies. Sick. They are extremely lucky no one died.

Who would be responsible for that? Both the town and the owners of the business? Everyone wants low taxes, but if the town didn't have the money and resources for this..... I mean you have taxes for a reason.

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

32 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

Who would be responsible for that? Both the town and the owners of the business? Everyone wants low taxes, but if the town didn't have the money and resources for this..... I mean you have taxes for a reason.

The town and business are really going to be broke after this.

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

34 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Negligence 

Pretty much. Negligence comes in many forms. This would qualify, regardless of why.

[Typhoon Tip]

Does any building built in the last 20 years utilizing modern physical materials ... actually burn?  

I was told by off duty hats that most of what they do, ... outside of triple decker box traps down in Worcester or older neighborhoods in the N. End, tend to be hazmat related.  Chemical order calls, or electrical stink..  that sort of stuff.  Coconut Grove is thing of the past...  

[SJonesWX]

1 hour ago, Ginx snewx said:

I did this for an occupation before becoming a facility manager.  It's totally incredible to me that a large hotel wasn't required to have quartelies , annuals and weeklies. Sick. They are extremely lucky no one died.

honest question: how do you know that inspections were not performed? source?

[SJonesWX]

39 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

Does any building built in the last 20 years utilizing modern physical materials ... actually burn?  

I was told by off duty hats that most of what they do, ... outside of triple decker box traps down in Worcester or older neighborhoods in the N. End, tend to be hazmat related.  Chemical order calls, or electrical stink..  that sort of stuff.  Coconut Grove is thing of the past...  

uh, maybe you missed it, but google "Station nightclub fire".  And for something more recent, google "San Jose Home Depot Fire".

[CoastalWx]

2 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

The town and business are really going to be broke after this.

The town won't be though. 

[Ginx snewx]

1 hour ago, CoastalWx said:

Who would be responsible for that? Both the town and the owners of the business? Everyone wants low taxes, but if the town didn't have the money and resources for this..... I mean you have taxes for a reason.

State code and their insurance  company

[Ginx snewx]

17 minutes ago, SJonesWX said:

honest question: how do you know that inspections were not performed? source?

I don't but if no one heard a smoke alarm something was up. Obviously not sprinkled.

[Ginx snewx]

58 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

Does any building built in the last 20 years utilizing modern physical materials ... actually burn?  

I was told by off duty hats that most of what they do, ... outside of triple decker box traps down in Worcester or older neighborhoods in the N. End, tend to be hazmat related.  Chemical order calls, or electrical stink..  that sort of stuff.  Coconut Grove is thing of the past...  

It's not the building itself now a days it's the fire load inside the building 

[CoastalWx]

The again The Station Nightclub fire was fairly recent in 2003. 

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

35 minutes ago, SJonesWX said:

honest question: how do you know that inspections were not performed? source?

Do you work for the hotel? Lol

 

The stories coming out, no sprinklers, no alarms, etc etc. tough to ignore 

[SJonesWX]

10 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Do you work for the hotel? Lol

 

The stories coming out, no sprinklers, no alarms, etc etc. tough to ignore 

again, that part of the building did not have sprinklers, nor were they required by code.

Quote

There were not sprinklers in the section of the hotel where the fire started, the fire chief said, as that part of the building was built prior to sprinkler requirements. The fire marshal said some areas of the resort have more sophisticated systems because of when the building was developed and renovated. The smoke detectors were working, the fire chief added.

Source

no, I don't work for the hotel, i have nothing to do with it. i am just not a fan of internet speculation and misinformation

[SJonesWX]

Quote

Guests returned to the resort on Sunday to gather their belongings, and reacted to what they had experienced the previous day. “The fire alarms went off, and at first we didn't really know what it was,” said Raymond resident Natalie Morse. "

Source

[Ginx snewx]

9 hours ago, Modfan2 said:

 Below is a recap by one of the people staying on the fire side of the inn

 

I want to start this by saying, it’s true you never know what you would do in this situation until you’re in it. My biggest fear has always been getting caught in a fire. Unfortunately, that fear became a reality that I’m still trying to wrap my head around.

All I want to say at this time, is that Paul Bevis quite literally saved my son and I’s lives. We had fallen asleep for a nap before heading out to the water park for the second time today and if it wasn’t for his phone alarm going off to wake us all up for the water park, who knows what would have happened. We woke up to the room full of smoke. The smoke detectors failed to go off and sprinklers failed as well. Paul went to check to see if we could escape the room through the hallway and as soon as he opened the door, the room immediately was englufed in black smoke to the point it was choking us. We ran to the balcony and saw that the room to the left of us and as far down as we could see through the smoke, all of those rooms were on fire as well. The only way to go was right but there were dividers to separate each rooms balcony. I grabbed Kellan and told him he needed to army crawl under each one as far as we could because the fire was spreading our way. We needed more time and more air. So we crawled under about 3 or 4 before we hit a concrete wall instead of a divider; we  couldn’t go any further away from the fire. By this time, a family with a wife, husband and their two boys were with us trying to find a way down. It was too high to jump from the 3rd floor to the ground. Paul Hurled himself over the railing (til my last day I will NEVER understand how he did what he did) and swung himself to the balcony below us which was the main floor of the hotel. He then told me to hand him my son to get him away from the flames, heat and suffocating black smoke. I Handed Kellan to Paul & Paul RAN my son to safety out an emergency exit while the women handed one of her sons to her husband who had done the same as Paul. Meanwhile myself and this women and one of her sons are still trapped trying to fight the smoke. Paul then comes BACK (after fighting through someone trying to stop him from running back into the burning building) and helps this women and husband save their second child. Once the husband got his children to safety, Paul had told me “YOU NEED TO JUMP!” And I froze terrified. Screaming I couldn’t because I wouldn’t make it. I couldn’t angle myself how he had to make it to the second floor balcony. I heard Paul once more and then a fire fighter (who had come to the front of the building on the first floor) and they screamed “YOU NEED TO JUMP NOW”. Right as he said it, there was an insanely loud crashing/exploding sound and I just jumped. Paul managed to grab me BY MY ANKLES and swung me on to the second floor balcony where he was. I knocked out for half a second and woke up to him about to drag me to safety. I came to and my first thing out of my mouth was “WHERE IS KELLAN” and I jumped up. Paul took off down the hall forgetting he had given Kellan to the staff member at the emergency exit prior to running back in. I saw Paul go left towards the exit screaming for Kellan, so I went right to cover more ground looking for him. I made it about one hotel room over before the fire was back in my face and the smoke was making it impossible to see. I turned back to the emergency exits and booked it down the hall running outside screaming “has anyone seen a five year old boy”. By the grace of God, Paul had my son wrapped in his arms..

I will NEVER be able to repay this man for his heroism and bravery. He saved not only my life and my sons, but another woman’s  children as well. We may have lost everything in that fire, but we did not lose our lives and that is entirely thanks to this man. I don’t know many people who would run back into a burning, collapsing building to save us, but that is EXACTLY what he did. I know he doesn’t want recognition for this, but it’s not every day that you save multiple lives from dying by being trapped in a fire. 

I know everyone is going to reach out and check in, that is why I wanted to put exactly what happened out there now so I don’t have to explain it over and over. But more than anything, I want everyone to know that my boyfriend is an absolute hero and I would quite literally not be alive to write this had he not acted as quickly as he did. 

Kellan was treated at the hospital for smoke inhalation. His carbon monoxide was 12 ; normal levels for a kid are between 0-5. Thankfully, he was released a few hours ago after a long night of getting those levels back to where they need to be. Now it’s just fighting the nightmares and the flashes that play as we close our eyes. 

 

Internet speculation and misinformation?..... sounds like the wing with the fire smoke alarms didn't go off and the general alarm was a manual pull because the guests Paul Jones quoted said they heard sirens which would indicate the alarm was placed after fire spread.

[Ginx snewx]

Makes sense now. Transformer fire took out a SLC in a section of South wing while other horns and strobes activated. I have seen that before in real time at Foxwoods and at the Mashantucket Museum. 

[Ginx snewx]

Lesson for all, no matter where you are you hear horns and see strobes get the heck out. Also when you are anywhere know your exits and emergency escape. People saying they heard and saw horns and strobes but didn't know what they meant usually are the first ones dead. People are dumb

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

30 minutes ago, SJonesWX said:

again, that part of the building did not have sprinklers, nor were they required by code.

Source

no, I don't work for the hotel, i have nothing to do with it. i am just not a fan of internet speculation and misinformation

To be fair, I said I could be wrong, and I wasnt spreading misinformation. I was basing my thoughts on actual accounts from people who were there.

At the end of the day, nobody lost their life, which is the most important thing.

[mreaves]

22 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Lesson for all, no matter where you are you hear horns and see strobes get the heck out. Also when you are anywhere know your exits and emergency escape. People saying they heard and saw horns and strobes but didn't know what they meant usually are the first ones dead. People are dumb

This is true.  The other week, I pulled into a parking lot across the street from a building at the same time a fire truck pulled up.  I noticed all the strobes, alarms going off and people coming out but couldn't see anything.  I figured it must be a false alarm.  I walked around the other side and then I saw a garbage can on fire underneath the covered drive through area of the building.  Just goes to show you it's always better to evacuate instead of speculate.

[SJonesWX]

38 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Lesson for all, no matter where you are you hear horns and see strobes get the heck out. Also when you are anywhere know your exits and emergency escape. People saying they heard and saw horns and strobes but didn't know what they meant usually are the first ones dead. People are dumb

ever since the Station nightclub fire, i take a close look around for emergency exits pretty much anywhere i go, especially hotels. If I am on an upper floor of a hotel, i make it a point to take the stairs anytime i go down, just so i am familiar with how to get to them and how to get out from there.

[HoarfrostHubb]

1 hour ago, SJonesWX said:

ever since the Station nightclub fire, i take a close look around for emergency exits pretty much anywhere i go, especially hotels. If I am on an upper floor of a hotel, i make it a point to take the stairs anytime i go down, just so i am familiar with how to get to them and how to get out from there.

Same.  Hotels, restaurants, theaters, etc.  I love when old spaces are converted into something new etc. but some of those buildings can be scary even if updated.  

[HIPPYVALLEY]

18 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Same.  Hotels, restaurants, theaters, etc.  I love when old spaces are converted into something new etc. but some of those buildings can be scary even if updated.  

I’m paranoid of going to shows at the Orpheum theater in Boston.  Fires sure but also the way that balcony bounces up and down at a rockin show. 

[HoarfrostHubb]

10 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

I’m paranoid of going to shows at the Orpheum theater in Boston.  Fires sure but also the way that balcony bounces up and down at a rockin show. 

Did you ever go to the old Rat in Kenmore Square?  That place was a potential nightmare.  

[radarman]

5 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

The again The Station Nightclub fire was fairly recent in 2003. 

The Ghost Ship fire in Oakland was another one.  2016