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Feb 16-17th Winter Storm


Chicago Storm
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23 minutes ago, Stevo6899 said:
It was the only model that had the last storm as far North as it did, with the main show banding all the way up to near lansing, and ended up being 200+ miles SE of detroit. You think its gonna cave or score a coup with this one?


My feeling for about 3 days now has been that we will see a compromise between the GFS/Euro solutions, which would impact near where GHD3 hit.

A few things to watch though, which are differences between the GFS/Euro. The GFS is a good bit further north with the lead wave that moves across Canada on Tue/Wed, while the Euro is much further south. This impacts ridging ahead of the main through in the West. Another thing is hat there are some differences in how the GFS/Euro handle how much the main through will dig into the Southwest, and where exactly the secondary wave diving into the West tracks. Some of this difference is connected to the aforementioned differences in how the lead wave is handled for Tue/Wed.


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1 minute ago, Stevo6899 said:

12z rgem looks more organized, as does the 12z gdps.  I'm still a little confused the difference between those 2. I know they're both the Canadian model, rgem the short term model, but sometimes they do have subtle differences.

Think of it like the GFS vs the NAM for us, that's essentially what they are. Then there is also the HRDPS, which would be like the 3km NAM to us.

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Just now, hlcater said:

Canadian and UKMET remain south. A hair north on the UKMET and a fairly substantial jump north from the Canadian. Still well south of the GFS. As much as I'd like to believe, I don't really see a scenario where the GFS is correct and everything caves towards it.

dont forget the NAM !!!

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Just now, hlcater said:

Canadian and UKMET remain south. A hair north on the UKMET and a fairly substantial jump north from the Canadian. Still well south of the GFS. As much as I'd like to believe, I don't really see a scenario where the GFS is correct and everything caves towards it.

This isn't to say the GFS is right by any means, but......the UKMET is pretty terrible. Canadian isn't a lot better. 

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Just now, hlcater said:

Canadian and UKMET remain south. A hair north on the UKMET and a fairly substantial jump north from the Canadian. Still well south of the GFS. As much as I'd like to believe, I don't really see a scenario where the GFS is correct and everything caves towards it.

ok.

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5 minutes ago, mimillman said:

I would be selling significant ice accretion at advertised precipitation rates especially if temps the day before approach 50 and the ground is wet from heavy rain.

The rates are definitely a factor that could mitigate icing amounts if they're too high.  It's been cold and with a relatively short duration of warm temps, I don't think it will take long for the ground to start icing up after temps fall below freezing (especially untreated surfaces) and trees/powerlines should start freezing even quicker than the ground.

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17 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

The rates are definitely a factor that could mitigate icing amounts if they're too high.  It's been cold and with a relatively short duration of warm temps, I don't think it will take long for the ground to start icing up after temps fall below freezing (especially untreated surfaces) and trees/powerlines should start freezing even quicker than the ground.

Agreed ground temps will not warm much because of a few hours above freezing unless it is full sunny day.  Trees do however (maple syrup experience) warm relatively quickly so they will take at least a little extra time to get icy (not like I am talking hours).  

In these situations (warm => cold ice storms) I find it a lot to do with how quickly temps drop.  Ice accretion with temps in 30-31 range is definitely hampered by the heavier rate.  Once you get 28 or below then I find ice accretion and rates go hand in hand.

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3 minutes ago, Lightning said:

Agreed ground temps will not warm much because of a few hours above freezing unless it is full sunny day.  Trees do however (maple syrup experience) warm relatively quickly so they will take at least a little extra time to get icy (not like I am talking hours).  

In these situations (warm => cold ice storms) I find it a lot to do with how quickly temps drop.  Ice accretion with temps in 30-31 range is definitely hampered by the heavier rate.  Once you get 28 or below then I find ice accretion and rates go hand in hand.

My observation over the years is that objects like trees and powerlines react more quickly to whatever the air temp is.  The ground is a trickier thing.  Coming out of cold spells, we have seen instances of the ground lagging and taking longer to warm above freezing even after the air temp goes above freezing.  Conversely, the ground *can* take longer to cool off after air temps drop below freezing.

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1 minute ago, Hoosier said:

Hopefully the Euro comes north so that the baby stepping in messaging toward a higher impact event can begin.  

Logic would say that it would come north, but who knows.

One would assume its either gonna come north and be a respectable storm, or stay SE and be less of an impact wherever it precipitates?

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