New England snowstorm memories.

[Damage In Tolland]

That was really a firehose band though. I didn't notice any enhancement other than a mesoscale band that probably was nothing to do with low level processes. You are actually at the end of the higher elevations in NE CT so using your logic..you should receive less than Union.

When that wind direction it actually makes sense the higher totals were w and SW of Union as the enhanced echoes there fell downstream from wind direction.

[CoastalWx]

When that wind direction it actually makes sense the higher totals were w and SW of Union as the enhanced echoes there fell downstream from wind direction.

 

 You crack me up. 

[powderfreak]

When that wind direction it actually makes sense the higher totals were w and SW of Union as the enhanced echoes there fell downstream from wind direction.

 

Ahhh the classic unblocked flow depositing the heaviest precipitation downwind of the topographic barrier.

 

I wonder what the Froude Number would be for that event in the Tolland Hills?

 

[CoastalWx]

I get more effects from land/sea convergence than he does from noslope at 1k. 

[powderfreak]

I get more effects from land/sea convergence than he does from noslope at 1k. 

 

Oh yeah by far if you are talking precipitation amounts (raw QPF).  He almost always over-states the effects of orographics in his area...he mentions upslope just as much as I do, though up here you can actually see it in annual precipitation climo.

 

A coastal front will produce more QPF than any orographics in his area.  You really need a "wall" of terrain where it uniformly goes from low elevation to higher elevation, such as from ORH northward where its a more linear barrier to eastern flow.

[Damage In Tolland]

I get more effects from land/sea convergence than he does from noslope at 1k. 

[CoastalWx]

Ahhh the classic unblocked flow depositing the heaviest precipitation downwind of the topographic barrier.

 

I wonder what the Froude Number would be for that event in the Tolland Hills?

 

 

More like Fraud number.

[powderfreak]

 

This is what upslope looks like on a seasonal scale.  

 

Just look at Washington County...there's an over 100" spread in seasonal snow total from the western county line and eastern county line.  And the ones on the western county line like J.Spin and Hanksville are actually at lower elevations than the spots to the east.  

 

Where else can you get 180-196" at 400-900ft elevation while 1,000+ft gets 80-100"...all in the same county?  Even in Stowe we had a 100" spread over about 5 miles (actually 176" over 5 miles and 3kft difference), but that's the norm around these parts with orographics. 

 

[CT Rain]

That was really a firehose band though. I didn't notice any enhancement other than a mesoscale band that probably was nothing to do with low level processes. You are actually at the end of the higher elevations in NE CT so using your logic..you should receive less than Union. 

 

I would have preferred 45F and sunshine than live through that storm again

[CoastalWx]

I would have preferred 45F and sunshine than live through that storm again

 

I know...I don't mean to put salt on the would.

[Ginx snewx]

Incredible storm, will never forget the pulsating high winds and the literal snow line at the RI border

[CT Rain]

I know...I don't mean to put salt on the would.

 

What a dumpster fire that storm was for us. The worst part of it was that the reason we got screwed wasn't even a good one... I could see downsloping, dry air draining down the valley, or even pinging too fast... but that odd standing wave pattern was just absolutely brutal.

[Ginx snewx]

March as a spring month cancel, storm

[ORH_wxman]

Oh yeah by far if you are talking precipitation amounts (raw QPF).  He almost always over-states the effects of orographics in his area...he mentions upslope just as much as I do, though up here you can actually see it in annual precipitation climo.

 

A coastal front will produce more QPF than any orographics in his area.  You really need a "wall" of terrain where it uniformly goes from low elevation to higher elevation, such as from ORH northward where its a more linear barrier to eastern flow.

 

 

The effects of upslope are almost nil where he is except for a wind with a good southerly component. He's pretty much neutral on an E wind and mild downslope on a NE and NNE wind.

 

We've shown this map before...you can see the black circle is where Tolland is and how the terrain looks to the northeast. The real upslope that occurs in the central hills is clearly in ORH county and NW RI...Union, CT does ok too...esp on an ENE wind. You can see how he needs a southerly component to the wind to really get any meaningful upslope: 

 

[OceanStWx]

The effects of upslope are almost nil where he is except for a wind with a good southerly component. He's pretty much neutral on an E wind and mild downslope on a NE and NNE wind.

 

We've shown this map before...you can see the black circle is where Tolland is and how the terrain looks to the northeast. The real upslope that occurs in the central hills is clearly in ORH county and NW RI...Union, CT does ok too...esp on an ENE wind. You can see how he needs a southerly component to the wind to really get any meaningful upslope: 

 

That usually works out well in the winter.

[ORH_wxman]

That usually works out well in the winter.

 

He cleans up in the Lakes Cutters.

[CT Rain]

The effects of upslope are almost nil where he is except for a wind with a good southerly component. He's pretty much neutral on an E wind and mild downslope on a NE and NNE wind.

 

We've shown this map before...you can see the black circle is where Tolland is and how the terrain looks to the northeast. The real upslope that occurs in the central hills is clearly in ORH county and NW RI...Union, CT does ok too...esp on an ENE wind. You can see how he needs a southerly component to the wind to really get any meaningful upslope: 

 

 

 

Imagine how well the Tolland hills did on the epic SE flow Westerly ocean effect snow storm that Ginx lived through!

[CT Rain]

He cleans up in the Lakes Cutters.

 

I feel like a lot of what Kevin attributes to upslope is really just other factors that benefit elevated locales. For example, on a storm with NE flow... occasionally drier air in the boundary layer will advect south (locally chanelled flow too) down the CT River Valley resulting in a dearth of snowfall from Greenfield Mass to Hartford. When ORH is 24/22 and HFD is sitting at 27/18 it's time for me to tie the noose and jump off the Bulkeley Bridge. That's not downsloping... but it is Kevin doing better because of elevation and avoiding the northerly dry drain. That's a much bigger issue for MBY than downsloping unless it's some really effed up storm like 12/92 or that awful retrograde storm that totally sucked in 2014. 

[ORH_wxman]

I feel like a lot of what Kevin attributes to upslope is really just other factors that benefit elevated locales. For example, on a storm with NE flow... occasionally drier air in the boundary layer will advect south (locally chanelled flow too) down the CT River Valley resulting in a dearth of snowfall from Greenfield Mass to Hartford. When ORH is 24/22 and HFD is sitting at 27/18 it's time for me to tie the noose and jump off the Bulkeley Bridge. That's not downsloping... but it is Kevin doing better because of elevation and avoiding the northerly dry drain. That's a much bigger issue for MBY than downsloping unless it's some really effed up storm like 12/92 or that awful retrograde storm that totally sucked in 2014. 

 

Yeah agreed. HFD needs to rip out of the ENE to really downslope. The shadow is more prominent on a regular basis up in CEF/BAF region where a NE wind comes off N ORH county and Monadnocks....even a NNE wind there is kind of nasty whereas it isn't that bad at all in HFD.

 

The orographic components in SNE as a whole are not nearly pronounced anyway as they are further north except maybe the spine of the Berkshires and Taconics. So you normally need the right conditions to really bring them out to a noticeable level in the central regions. I actually most commonly see the orographic effects in ORH county during icing events more than snow events....since icing events often have pretty low mid-level forcing components and the BL is usually out of the northeast and capped fairly low below 3,000 feet...so we see that orographic "collecting" of cold/dry air on the east side of the ORH hills. You're right about that dry ageostrophic component from the N or NNW in some of those storms that try and "compress" a bit to the southeast. The hills can sometimes be more protected from that advection.

[ORH_wxman]

Imagine how well the Tolland hills did on the epic SE flow Westerly ocean effect snow storm that Ginx lived through!

 

Ginx drove up to Tolland in his 1975 Malibu to take pics of drifts back during that event.

[CT Rain]

Yeah agreed. HFD needs to rip out of the ENE to really downslope. The shadow is more prominent on a regular basis up in CEF/BAF region where a NE wind comes off N ORH county and Monadnocks....even a NNE wind there is kind of nasty whereas it isn't that bad at all in HFD.

 

The orographic components in SNE as a whole are not nearly pronounced anyway as they are further north except maybe the spine of the Berkshires and Taconics. So you normally need the right conditions to really bring them out to a noticeable level in the central regions. I actually most commonly see the orographic effects in ORH county during icing events more than snow events....since icing events often have pretty low mid-level forcing components and the BL is usually out of the northeast and capped fairly low below 3,000 feet...so we see that orographic "collecting" of cold/dry air on the east side of the ORH hills. You're right about that dry ageostrophic component from the N or NNW in some of those storms that try and "compress" a bit to the southeast. The hills can sometimes be more protected from that advection.

 

Yeah - we actually see the downslope issue a bit more up along the Mass border near Springfield then we do in the Hartford area. It's not a huge thing unless we have a really ripping ENE flow. It's normally fairly negligible.

 

On storms where we're kissing the northern end of a shield of snow... or even a decent deformation band... the northerly ageostrophic dry drain can be lethal here.  

[CT Valley Snowman]

Kevin benefits more from a marginal temp profile paste job up on his hill than true upslope. When I lived in Ellington at 400', Most big storms, 12+, he got maybe an inch or 2 more than I did, but he cashed in on a couple slushy coatings at my place where up on the hill was like 2-3.

[CT Rain]

Kevin benefits more from a marginal temp profile paste job up on his hill than true upslope. When I lived in Ellington at 400', Most big storms, 12+, he got maybe an inch or 2 more than I did, but he cashed in on a couple slushy coatings at my place where up on the hill was like 2-3.

 

He also benefits from inserting his ruler into the snow at less than 90 degrees. 

[CT Valley Snowman]

He also benefits from inserting his ruler into the snow at less than 90 degrees.

I wonder if his brother lives in Lunenburg?

[Ginx snewx]

Imagine how well the Tolland hills did on the epic SE flow Westerly ocean effect snow storm that Ginx lived through!

so funny, except it was true, remember you Debbieing October snowstorm. Best thing about Sandy and last Jan Feb was remaking of the book you read out of.

[Ginx snewx]

Ginx drove up to Tolland in his 1975 Malibu to take pics of drifts back during that event.

lol what is a Malibu

[CT Rain]

so funny, except it was true, remember you Debbieing October snowstorm. Best thing about Sandy and last Jan Feb was remaking of the book you read out of.

 

?

 

I probably was as un-debby as it gets about the October snowstorm. 

[Ginx snewx]

Yeah agreed. HFD needs to rip out of the ENE to really downslope. The shadow is more prominent on a regular basis up in CEF/BAF region where a NE wind comes off N ORH county and Monadnocks....even a NNE wind there is kind of nasty whereas it isn't that bad at all in HFD.

The orographic components in SNE as a whole are not nearly pronounced anyway as they are further north except maybe the spine of the Berkshires and Taconics. So you normally need the right conditions to really bring them out to a noticeable level in the central regions. I actually most commonly see the orographic effects in ORH county during icing events more than snow events....since icing events often have pretty low mid-level forcing components and the BL is usually out of the northeast and capped fairly low below 3,000 feet...so we see that orographic "collecting" of cold/dry air on the east side of the ORH hills. You're right about that dry ageostrophic component from the N or NNW in some of those storms that try and "compress" a bit to the southeast. The hills can sometimes be more protected from that advection.

remember when you actually lived in the hills

[CoastalWx]

There have been cave drawings by the Mashantucket Peqout of teepees buried in OES from SE winds.

[Ginx snewx]

?

I probably was as un-debby as it gets about the October snowstorm.

um not initially go back and read the lead up. You finally got on board