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Upstate/Eastern New York-Pattern Change Vs Tughill Curse?


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29 minutes ago, TugHillMatt said:

They used sand on the roads where I lived in Canada, in Michigan, and up in Redfield. I MUCH prefer it to road salt, as it provides more traction and way less slippery and your car doesn't slide all over the place when you're driving and trying to turn. The biggest negative of it is definitely how it cakes to your car...especially if it's mixed with brine/salt...that stuff EATS away at your car. Hence, the holes in so many cars up there.

 

Part of the reason for heavy salt use on the roads is that people today almost insist on seeing bare pavement when they drive. People like to drive like its July 4 when it’s January 4. There are growing environmental concerns over the use of salt as it runs off into bodies of water. But, as I said, sand also ends up in drainage systems. Not only does it clog closed drainage systems it builds up in ditches requiring periodic cleaning out to ensure proper grade of the ditch line. Either way, we need to apply something to maintain the coefficient of friction on our roads when ice and snow covers the roads. 

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9 minutes ago, CNY_WX said:

Part of the reason for heavy salt use on the roads is that people today almost insist on seeing bare pavement when they drive. People like to drive like its July 4 when it’s January 4. There are growing environmental concerns over the use of salt as it runs off into bodies of water. But, as I said, sand also ends up in drainage systems. Not only does it clog closed drainage systems it builds up in ditches requiring periodic cleaning out to ensure proper grade of the ditch line. Either way, we need to apply something to maintain the coefficient of friction on our roads when ice and snow covers the roads. 

For sure. I understand there are pros and cons to both. Those places I lived also did a great job in the spring of scraping and "sweeping" up the sand so that it didn't all go on the sides and into ditches (which is inevitable that some still will).

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1 hour ago, Syrmax said:

I think this is the most likely eventual track FWIW.

I hate to say it, but I think you're right.

 

T-5 days prediction:

BUF: 2"

ROC: 4" (despite mets protesting that their forecast of 8-12" is going to hold up in the face late model movement to the SE)

SYR: 9"

ALB: 16"

BGM: 18"

Jackpot: Manchester, NH - 23"

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2 minutes ago, PerintonMan said:

I hate to say it, but I think you're right.

 

T-5 days prediction:

BUF: 2"

ROC: 4" (despite mets protesting that their forecast of 8-12" is going to hold up in the face late model movement to the SE)

SYR: 9"

ALB: 16"

BGM: 18"

Jackpot: Manchester, NH - 23"

Oh noes! You've gone and done it...

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3 minutes ago, PerintonMan said:

I hate to say it, but I think you're right.

 

T-5 days prediction:

BUF: 2"

ROC: 4" (despite mets protesting that their forecast of 8-12" is going to hold up in the face late model movement to the SE)

SYR: 9"

ALB: 16"

BGM: 18"

Jackpot: Manchester, NH - 23"

This is gonna be more west than that... 

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BUF

.LONG TERM /SUNDAY THROUGH WEDNESDAY/...
High pressure will move off the New England coast Sunday, with a
ridge extending back across New York State and New England
providing a dry finish to the weekend. Temperatures will be
significantly warmer than on Saturday after a cold start Sunday
morning, however still some 5-10 degrees below average for mid
January.

Our attention then turns to a potential significant synoptic system.
Confidence continues to increase for a Nor`Easter to impact our area
from Sunday night into Monday. 12Z ECMWF/GFS/Canadian all have the
center of an area of deepening low pressure moving NNE directly over
central/eastern NY late Sunday night and Monday. Given the increased
confidence, us and surrounding offices have stepped up PoPs into the
Lkly range from central and eastern PA up through central and
eastern NY during this timeframe. If this system tracks to far
inland p-type could become an issue, mainly across eastern areas at
this point, however will keep precipitation as all snow for now this
far out.

Some lake effect and upslope snows will develop Monday night lasting
into the day on Tuesday under WNW/NW flow in the wake of the
departing storm system. Any lingering lake effect snow showers will
weaken and sweep from south to north as winds back to the southwest
Tuesday night ahead of a Clipper type system moving into the upper
Great Lakes. This will bring the next chance for a light synoptic
snow to western and northcentral NY mid week.
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5 minutes ago, vortmax said:
BUF

.LONG TERM /SUNDAY THROUGH WEDNESDAY/...
High pressure will move off the New England coast Sunday, with a
ridge extending back across New York State and New England
providing a dry finish to the weekend. Temperatures will be
significantly warmer than on Saturday after a cold start Sunday
morning, however still some 5-10 degrees below average for mid
January.

Our attention then turns to a potential significant synoptic system.
Confidence continues to increase for a Nor`Easter to impact our area
from Sunday night into Monday. 12Z ECMWF/GFS/Canadian all have the
center of an area of deepening low pressure moving NNE directly over
central/eastern NY late Sunday night and Monday. Given the increased
confidence, us and surrounding offices have stepped up PoPs into the
Lkly range from central and eastern PA up through central and
eastern NY during this timeframe. If this system tracks to far
inland p-type could become an issue, mainly across eastern areas at
this point, however will keep precipitation as all snow for now this
far out.

Some lake effect and upslope snows will develop Monday night lasting
into the day on Tuesday under WNW/NW flow in the wake of the
departing storm system. Any lingering lake effect snow showers will
weaken and sweep from south to north as winds back to the southwest
Tuesday night ahead of a Clipper type system moving into the upper
Great Lakes. This will bring the next chance for a light synoptic
snow to western and northcentral NY mid week.

Jesus, right from a miss to mixing. 

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As of right now no mixing

 

Sunday Night
A chance of snow after 1am. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 14. Chance of precipitation is 50%.
M.L.King Day
Snow likely. Cloudy, with a high near 28. Chance of precipitation is 70%.
Monday Night
Snow showers likely. Cloudy, with a low around 17. Chance of precipitation is 60%.
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1 hour ago, CNY_WX said:

Part of the reason for heavy salt use on the roads is that people today almost insist on seeing bare pavement when they drive. People like to drive like its July 4 when it’s January 4. There are growing environmental concerns over the use of salt as it runs off into bodies of water. But, as I said, sand also ends up in drainage systems. Not only does it clog closed drainage systems it builds up in ditches requiring periodic cleaning out to ensure proper grade of the ditch line. Either way, we need to apply something to maintain the coefficient of friction on our roads when ice and snow covers the roads. 

In addition to this a lot of salt is used perhaps more often than necessary because towns/countries/Dot budget X amount for salt. (just like anything else, no secret here)
Well say this yr is  a light winter they still keep spreading as much as possible so that there budget allotment stays the same. Then if the following year is twice as bad as normal there’s not as much of a deficit to overcome.

municipalities are also required by the state as I understand it, to  take X amount of salt no matter if they use it or not. I delivered some to places that had no where to go with it back in early December. I also do believe all salt orders go through the state in some form. Your local highway super has to “call”in to the state and then the order comes back to the mine. 
Sand seems to be more popular in areas with any type of hills (obviously) and also areas with a smaller tax base.  Don’t quote me on these numbers but you can get say 400 ton of sand to one 40 ton load of salt. But all the comments on drains and whatnot I’m sure factor in as well.

As for environmental concerns there are more towns using a treated salt that sticks to the rds better and isnt suppose to runoff as much as regular. I also believe it reduces the temperature at which it’s effective to as this is pretty widely used up in the adks.

Someone with better knowledge of  all this will probably correct me, as I’m just a steering wheel holder who delivers a lot of the vehicle corrosion enhancer around the state. You’re all welcome….:D

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12 minutes ago, Polarbear said:

In addition to this a lot of salt is used perhaps more often than necessary because towns/countries/Dot budget X amount for salt. (just like anything else, no secret here)
Well say this yr is  a light winter they still keep spreading as much as possible so that there budget allotment stays the same. Then if the following year is twice as bad as normal there’s not as much of a deficit to overcome.

municipalities are also required by the state as I understand it, to  take X amount of salt no matter if they use it or not. I delivered some to places that had no where to go with it back in early December. I also do believe all salt orders go through the state in some form. Your local highway super has to “call”in to the state and then the order comes back to the mine. 
Sand seems to be more popular in areas with any type of hills (obviously) and also areas with a smaller tax base.  Don’t quote me on these numbers but you can get say 400 ton of sand to one 40 ton load of salt. But all the comments on drains and whatnot I’m sure factor in as well.

As for environmental concerns there are more towns using a treated salt that sticks to the rds better and isnt suppose to runoff as much as regular. I also believe it reduces the temperature at which it’s effective to as this is pretty widely used up in the adks.

Someone with better knowledge of  all this will probably correct me, as I’m just a steering wheel holder who delivers a lot of the vehicle corrosion enhancer around the state. You’re all welcome….:D

A relatively recent development in snow and ice control is the application of brine to the road surface prior to the onset of precipitation.  This forms a barrier on the road so when snow or ice falls it doesn’t stick to the road. 

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3 minutes ago, CNY_WX said:

A relatively recent development in snow and ice control is the application of brine to the road surface prior to the onset of precipitation.  This forms a barrier on the road so when snow or ice falls it doesn’t stick to the road. 

Yes very true. Beet juice and molasses are common.

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