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January Medium/Long Range Discussion


WinterWxLuvr
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33 minutes ago, yoda said:

I made the bad choice of looking at the 850mb temps :(

 

It’s like 2* at day 10 from a big storm. And the euro is often slightly too warm in the cold sector of storms at that range. Showed a big rainstorm day 10 in Jan 2016 also and I made a post about not worrying and that setup as depicted would trend colder assuming the major longwave pattern features were correct. I’m not saying it’s a lock just that worrying about the exact thermal profile on day 10 ops is a total waste of time. 

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Looks like a busy period ahead.  Most likely 3 events in 7 days for the MA.  Ops have plenty of chances throughout the next two weeks.  I do see the dryish look on the ens but wonder how much of that is due to a cluster of members having the entire tpv dropping down for an extended period and crushing everything....skewing things drier on the mean?

 

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2 hours ago, psuhoffman said:

The front is trending less positively tilted and it wouldn’t take much for a wave to develop to bring some snow. Not likely not a threat of a big storm but a sneaky threat worth watching. 

I’m not comparing the two directly, but from range I recall Monday’s event originally showing up as a weak anafrontal wave.

I haven’t been following this at all, but I guess I will now…

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7 hours ago, psuhoffman said:

I’ve seen some posts by even people I respect a lot implying we return to a strongly -epo because “Nina” which confuses me because that’s not actually an automatic Nina thing. I posted this on Twitter yesterday but it’s every Nina winter mean h5 since 1980. 
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Yea the pac ridge is obvious and the +TNH and I’m not saying that’s a good look for snow here but it’s not necessarily a crazy -pna either. The NAM trough axis is actually more typically more east than it was. 
 

However, pointing out a “typical” Nina doesn’t necessarily translate to the current pac base state.  Also hidden within that are actually 2 different Nina states. When there is a poleward epo ridge it NAO blocking (later in winter!) we tend to see the trough more east in North America. When the pac ridge is flat and or. +NAO we tend to see it west and a -pna and big SE ridge. 
 

I do agree the pac jet retracts and we get a retrogression off the NAM pattern. That’s not bad, that will give us a nice window during prime climo mid January!   After that though I think depends on the high latitudes.  Assuming we revert to the recent pac base state if the epo ridge dissipates and the NAO stays positive then we probably torch Feb. we don’t do slightly warm anymore. Any pattern that favors a ridge in the east means crazy warm anomalies recently. No reason to expect different. But I do think we get another period of high latitude help. Recent trends say it’s unlikely the AO stays positive the rest of winter. I also think the happenings in the pac had a lot to do with the coming +NAO.  analog based pattern progression showed the NAO ridge was likely to retrograde to the pac side. It took longer than expected with the stalled mjo but the expected pattern progression seems to be resumed now. 
 

My best guess is we have to suffer a torch period at some point late Jan or Early Feb before things start to recycle up top. But I do think we get one more chance at snow after. Whether that’s Feb or we have to wait until March I don’t know. As grit eater says it’s all an educated guess at those ranges. But I’m sure it won’t be soon enough for some who start complaining about Sun angle by groundhogs day!  

PSU - here's the distinction I would draw...that Dec-Feb composite of the Nina winters is an average across the 3 months and many winters, and i've seen your separate posts about how NInas fall into a couple different categories - those are informative.  In this case, rather than stating "stock Nina", they way I should have worded it in the twitter post is something along the lines of "I believe we will see a return to an enhanced convective signal in the E Indian Ocean and Maritime Continent in February...and that type of forcing, combined with a well-coupled, and 2nd year Nina will favor either a -PNA or +EPO type pattern.”  So, it's just part of the 30 day or so cycle of the tropical forcing and how it impacts the pattern as opposed to it being a "stock Nina" idea.

Anyway, appreciate the kind words in here from you all on the tweets, etc.  I enjoy the discussion.  Good luck tomorrow, and I think we will have a chance to keep a good pattern thru the end of the month, during the coldest climo of winter…and yes, February is a long ways off 

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1 hour ago, griteater said:

PSU - here's the distinction I would draw...that Dec-Feb composite of the Nina winters is an average across the 3 months and many winters, and i've seen your separate posts about how NInas fall into a couple different categories - those are informative.  In this case, rather than stating "stock Nina", they way I should have worded it in the twitter post is something along the lines of "I believe we will see a return to an enhanced convective signal in the E Indian Ocean and Maritime Continent in February...and that type of forcing, combined with a well-coupled, and 2nd year Nina will favor either a -PNA or +EPO type pattern.”  So, it's just part of the 30 day or so cycle of the tropical forcing and how it impacts the pattern as opposed to it being a "stock Nina" idea.

Anyway, appreciate the kind words in here from you all on the tweets, etc.  I enjoy the discussion.  Good luck tomorrow, and I think we will have a chance to keep a good pattern thru the end of the month, during the coldest climo of winter…and yes, February is a long ways off 

Agree with that, hence why I think we will likely need high lat help to get another favorable window later.  Another -NAO period (assuming we don't go -5 stdv PNA again!) would likely do better later in winter when wavelengths start to shorten some and blocking can have even more impact on the flow.  BTW my comment about the "stock nina" comments was not about you.  You were really clear in your excellent post about the different options.  But there have been some others that want to chalk the record -PNA in December off to "typical nina" and I guess I took issue with that since it was more than just a "nina" since we don't get that extreme a -PNA typically and as we both stated there are various "typical" nina patterns.  Again, it wasn't your post...but there were some doing that recently.  If you scroll through my twitter I kind of called one out the other day.  But I feel bad because its someone I know is really an excellent source of info just thought the "its nina" stuff was overly simplistic and somewhat misleading.  If that was a typical nina we would never snow in a nina lol.  I love your posts btw!  Some of the best on twitter.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  

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2 hours ago, psuhoffman said:

Oddly the guidance day 10-15 is hinting at more STJ than is typical of a nina on all 3 global ensembles.   

Huh...Adds more intrigue to the MLK weekend idea (did somebody use the golden term Miller A earlier? Lol) But of course...usual Day 10 caveats apply. But you gotta think some stj would improve the odds

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