Met Winter 2021 - 2022 Banter

[SouthCoastMA]

20 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

one day a week, really?

I'm also in a software company.  I could see them pushing it to 40% but from my standpoint, we work in various buildings anyway so I actually see my staff more on Gmeet/Zoom than I did when in the office. 

[NorEastermass128]

I’ll probably be back 1 day per week next month. My team is virtual, teammates all over the country, so I’m really just a hotelier anyway. Travel ramping up too. Two weeks of travel already scheduled for April. 

[40/70 Benchmark]

1 hour ago, Cold Miser said:

My boss has been home for almost 2 years now.  ...He does come in every so often, but for the most part he is home.  For 18 months he was home 100% of the time.

This entire exercise of home working that still exists here has become a very big bone of contention around my place of work.  The general manager is still sticking to the, "people can work from home 3 days a week" stance, and it is driving people nuts (my boss is one who just does not even bother to come in for those 2 days, except every so often).  There is literally zero reason to be home, and I know that people have taken advantage of the whole thing.  I have had conversations with people who are using those days to be home with their kids, etc.  People are taking dr's appointments without subtracting the time, they are taking vacations days, without subtracting the time, etc.. At the end of the year they have vacation time that they have not used. and carry it over, or cash it out and get paid.  The Sh.it is on a whole other level of insanity.  Myself and others saw this coming back when it all started it, but when we mentioned it people blew us off as paranoid, saying, "this is a time of crisis and that people would not take advantage like that".  I have come to work through all of it. The only time I stayed home was ONCE when we had an all day ZOOM interview to hire architects 18 months ago, and there was zero reason for me to drive to work just to get on my computer for a meeting.

Regarding my boss, it does not really matter to me that he is home since the work gets done. It hasn't affected my situation at all and I know he is working tons of extra hours as well.  The situations in other departments, not so much. Completely different scene.

What an idiotically naive comment....so many instances of people scamming the hell out of others in order to take advantage of the situation.

[PhineasC]

Widespread WFH policies have basically become a backdoor way to get at social changes in working habits that some have advocated for decades. Something more akin to European practices. We all know they guy logging 8-10 hour days WFH is not actually working that much. We all know it, don't deny it. There is also downtime in the office too, of course. And removing commutes has made some people more productive early and late in the day, in my experience. I have noticed it with a few employees.

I'm not a big fan of it still for junior employees. The 18-25 cohort has really been struggling from what I have seen. It's hard to learn the ropes over the phone during telecons and Teams meetings. They just never really become a part of the team workflow and usually end up sitting around in the background.

The quality of work products for anything that requires collaboration and iteration between teams has taken a hit. Those sorts of activities take a lot longer to complete now. A giant phone call with 20 people is a lot harder to manage than in an in-person meeting of the same size. Solitary work is fine with WFH.

Like most things, WFH has good and bad aspects. I would say 75% of my staff would prefer to be back in the office at this point, and that includes some more junior staff who some would assume would only want WFH. I think we lose sight of the fact that work was often the number 1 place that people socialized and that has been cut off for many people. Leads to isolation. Young people can easily spend days and days barely ever leaving the house if they don't go to work. That's unhealthy, but that kind of behavior has literally been encouraged and/or mandated for 2 years now...

 

[Typhoon Tip]

In Biden's SOTU address last night ... he spoke of pandemic corruption to the tune of multiple billions. 

Humans deserve their plight.  

There is no lever extended down from sky turning the affairs of humanity.   Everything we do... we've done to our selves.  From CC, to pandemic vitriol and nefarium, to the Ukraine crisis, all of it.   

Here's a psycho-babble hypothesis: everyone exists on spectrum of "conditional sociopathy."   Just a matter of triggering thresholds, to get them to show their truly gray milquetoast colors.   No one is absolutely sane. No one is absolutely crazy.   But everyone definitely is somewhere on that spectrum, while no one ever ever really knows who anyone is, as we conceit in our relationships and carry on turning the gears of society. 

And at the end of all that delusional journey, you get to die.   Cheers.

 

 

[Typhoon Tip]

1 hour ago, PhineasC said:

Widespread WFH policies have basically become a backdoor way to get at social changes in working habits that some have advocated for decades. Something more akin to European practices. We all know they guy logging 8-10 hour days WFH is not actually working that much. We all know it, don't deny it. There is also downtime in the office too, of course. And removing commutes has made some people more productive early and late in the day, in my experience. I have noticed it with a few employees.

I'm not a big fan of it still for junior employees. The 18-25 cohort has really been struggling from what I have seen. It's hard to learn the ropes over the phone during telecons and Teams meetings. They just never really become a part of the team workflow and usually end up sitting around in the background.

The quality of work products for anything that requires collaboration and iteration between teams has taken a hit. Those sorts of activities take a lot longer to complete now. A giant phone call with 20 people is a lot harder to manage than in an in-person meeting of the same size. Solitary work is fine with WFH.

Like most things, WFH has good and bad aspects. I would say 75% of my staff would prefer to be back in the office at this point, and that includes some more junior staff who some would assume would only want WFH. I think we lose sight of the fact that work was often the number 1 place that people socialized and that has been cut off for many people. Leads to isolation. Young people can easily spend days and days barely ever leaving the house if they don't go to work. That's unhealthy, but that kind of behavior has literally been encouraged and/or mandated for 2 years now...

 

Half agree there (just musing a response to the bold) but admittedly, only for my own experience.

I was kicked to home secure VPN telecommuting, as an IT professional, just like everyone else 2 years ago. That's a long enough 'default' experiment to trigger, and so a pandemic-enforced cultural shift was put into motion. 

During the interim, there was no point in really evaluating the pros and cons of doing so - not really ... - because based on the zeitgeist, no one had any choice in the matter.  But, conjecture did begin to arise through the time, ... this was "working out" as a new paradigm. It was and still is, hard to imagine that with benefits in not needing overhead, ranging to even helping lower the total carbon footprint by lowering traffic, lowering corporate infrastructural facility costs (there's probably other metrics in the manifold), going back to circa 1985 would really be desired. 

But for me, ... and I'm not sure how to explain how this was so... I worked less, but turned in all my deliverables on time, with panache.   This latter aspect should be all that matters.  Not whether helicopter bosses are checking desk manacles and holding eyelids open like Clockwork Orange. There's a bit of a human policing fallacy that is involved with a lot of this, too - which is a bit abstract, ... still real, and very off-putting.   In fact, one may almost sense Schadenfreude in knowing that particular manager is rocking back and forth at home darting their eyes around in anxiety, sniffing armpits for comfort because they don't otherwise get to lord their control.  

Sorry, taking some creative license here LOL.   No I'm just saying that I think there are distractions at an office setting ... particular the open cubical park model.  Emails seemed to fly more frequently containing before all this happened, containing information that really didn't offer much.  There were more meetings scheduled that ironically... could have been handled in an email back pre-pandemic.  During this last 2 years, it seem to allow more focus on the meatier need, and those - for me ... - were then more efficiently managed, leaving more time to go on a bike ride or hit the gym earlier.  or whatever...  It's interesting...  

 

[Cold Miser]

45 minutes ago, 40/70 Benchmark said:

What an idiotically naive comment....so many instances of people scamming the hell out of others in order to take advantage of the situation.

Once you throw out the "S" word (safety), People lose their sh.it.  We have to be "safe" for others, including the obese, elderly man with a dozen pre-existing conditions who lives at home, alone. You know, the guy you will never encounter?  

[IowaStorm05]

30 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

In Biden's SOTU address last night ... he spoke of pandemic corruption to the tune of multiple billions. 

Humans deserve their plight.  

There is no lever extended down from sky turning the affairs of humanity.   Everything we do... we've done to our selves.  From CC, to pandemic vitriol and nefarium, to the Ukraine crisis, all of it.   

Here's a psycho-babble hypothesis: everyone exists on spectrum of "conditional sociopathy."   Just a matter of triggering thresholds, to get them to show their truly gray milquetoast colors.   No one is absolutely sane. No one is absolutely crazy.   But everyone definitely is somewhere on that spectrum, while no one ever ever really knows who anyone is, as we conceit in our relationships and carry on turning the gears of society. 

And at the end of all that delusional journey, you get to die.   Cheers.

 

 

Human folly and erratic behavior is depressing in of itself yes. 

But if we lost 90 per cent of our population through some unexpected but possible means, life would totally go on and many species would make a comeback as well. That is no problem in the long term. 

What is a problem to me is the temporary nature of habitability of the planet. There are probably only some 600 million odd "Good years" left for complex life before the climate on the planet reduces life's complexities, and everything goes extinct within 1.5 billion years.

[weathafella]

Regarding WFH-when I was still full time working I came in 100% of the time and vowed I’d never be remote.  Now that I have 2 part time gigs each about a day per week I see huge benefits FOR ME.  I’m mainly consulting and I choose the hours to work and some weeks I work what seems like all the time and other weeks hardly at all.  But for one of the groups, I needed to have a discussion that was best done in person.  I really looked forward to the interactions that day!   Anyone with a strong work ethic does fine remotely.   But based on who I see around in the middle of the day walking and shopping, a lot of remote workers are fukking off half the time.   I guess if their work gets done it’s ok and maybe they’re working late at night when I don’t see people.

[weathafella]

5 hours ago, Hoth said:

I find that hard to believe frankly. I'd be interested in reading the book, but the USSR had both a viable space program (and hence rocket technology) and tested hundreds of nukes on their soil. Their tech wasn't up to U.S. standards, but I doubt it was that derelict.

Pm me and if I can find the book I’ll send it to you.  I may have loaned it to someone but I’ll look.   USSR had a viable space program and they tested big nukes on their own soil but Nikita Khrushchev was big on bluster and small on real things. 

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

5 hours ago, Ginx snewx said:

Stock up non perishables 

Nuclear?

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

Work from home is obviously highly inequitable, but that was obvious from the get go.

Most low level jobs can’t be done from home, so as usual, the low man is punished.

Abuse of work from home is rampant among most I know. My buddies will be out golfing or by the pool during work time. My buddy Eve rigged up some contraption that moves his mouse every 10 mins to make it look like he’s there 

[Ginx snewx]

6 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Nuclear?

Cyber

[weathafella]

20 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Work from home is obviously highly inequitable, but that was obvious from the get go.

Most low level jobs can’t be done from home, so as usual, the low man is punished.

Abuse of work from home is rampant among most I know. My buddies will be out golfing or by the pool during work time. My buddy Eve rigged up some contraption that moves his mouse every 10 mins to make it look like he’s there 

Credit for ingenuity although I’m sure many others have done it...lol.

[PowderBeard]

21 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Work from home is obviously highly inequitable, but that was obvious from the get go.

Most low level jobs can’t be done from home, so as usual, the low man is punished.

Abuse of work from home is rampant among most I know. My buddies will be out golfing or by the pool during work time. My buddy Eve rigged up some contraption that moves his mouse every 10 mins to make it look like he’s there 

Definitely agree the low man is punished and some abuse it. The abuse of the system is what will ruin it for the many, or will force companies install some serious monitoring tech on your devices. 

I think it has also made some start asking- do we really need a 40 hour week in the office to get things done? For me, I was only in the office for 16 hours a week when covid started but all my work only took me about 8-10 hours to complete. 

I think it does benefit employees looking for new positions. In selecting my next position, all of the places I got interviews to had the same amount of work and same pay, but 2 of them offered remote work 2-3 days a week because they know not everything has to be done in the office. That was the difference maker in selecting where I ended up. It's funny to see the big Ivy league places still have openings for those positions despite interviewing hundreds of people.

[weathafella]

18 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Cyber

That’s a given.  Hopefully our defenses against cyber are up to the task....

[radarman]

15 minutes ago, weathafella said:

Hopefully our defenses against cyber are up to the task....

[CoastalWx]

4 minutes ago, radarman said:

I wonder how many get this scene. 

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

22 minutes ago, PowderBeard said:

Definitely agree the low man is punished and some abuse it. The abuse of the system is what will ruin it for the many, or will force companies install some serious monitoring tech on your devices. 

I think it has also made some start asking- do we really need a 40 hour week in the office to get things done? For me, I was only in the office for 16 hours a week when covid started but all my work only took me about 8-10 hours to complete. 

I think it does benefit employees looking for new positions. In selecting my next position, all of the places I got interviews to had the same amount of work and same pay, but 2 of them offered remote work 2-3 days a week because they know not everything has to be done in the office. That was the difference maker in selecting where I ended up. It's funny to see the big Ivy league places still have openings for those positions despite interviewing hundreds of people.

You’re right about the monitoring tech. That’s already in the works at some places I’m sure. There is a real push now for one of my friends to go back to the office after 2 years working remote. I believe June 1st it’s going to be mandatory to be in office at least 2 days a week.

[Spanks45]

43 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Cyber

I feel like China, being neighbors to Russia probably will have a say in what Russia could use. The last thing China wants is a Nuclear war in their backyard. The way Russia is being slammed financially, China may decide to take Russia at some point, increase their land and and oil capabilities....

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

So a few things that I think are going to happen if they aren’t already.

There is going to be some serious device tracking, and data logging of employee activities if they are working from home. I’m sure this has started in some places, but it’s definitely going to pick up moving forward.

There is also going to be tighter enforcement on paid time off, and when it’s used. You aren’t going to be able to open your computer at 7am and have w tee time at 715.

America is really good at sucking anything good out of employment, so I’m sure over time WFH will be made so unpalatable, most people just won’t want to do it. This is one time, I don’t necessarily disagree with the tightening the screws a bit 

[CoastalWx]

I took a new position back in May that is fully remote. My team is all over the US. This might be just me, but I do find remote work and the flexibility it allows, highly valuable. I can get up, start some work at 6:30 for an hour, help get the kids ready and my wife out the door (who works 3 days a week at the office). Then come back and work some more until I pick my son up from school. Do more work...get dinner going around 5 so that we eat when my wife gets home. If need be, I can work later. I also have the flexibility of doing something for myself like the gym early morning or lunch time if need be. Some days I spread my work day, some days I can't. As long as the work gets done. 

I find myself much more relaxed abd productive instead of commuting 40 miles each way through the city and wasting 3 hrs a day just commuting. 

[Typhoon Tip]

7 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I took a new position back in May that is fully remote. My team is all over the US. This might be just me, but I do find remote work and the flexibility it allows, highly valuable. I can get up, start some work at 6:30 for an hour, help get the kids ready and my wife out the door (who works 3 days a week at the office). Then come back and work some more until I pick my son up from school. Do more work...get dinner going around 5 so that we eat when my wife gets home. If need be, I can work later. I also have the flexibility of doing something for myself like the gym early morning or lunch time if need be. Some days I spread my work day, some days I can't. As long as the work gets done. 

I find myself much more relaxed abd productive instead of commuting 40 miles each way through the city and wasting 3 hrs a day just commuting. 

Cool Scott.   heh... I had this image of you still at WSI rotating through swing shifts as a grid populator  lol. 

Are you still in Meteorology ?

[CoastalWx]

7 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

Cool Scott.   heh... I had this image of you still at WSI rotating through swing shifts as a grid populator  lol. 

Are you still in Meteorology ?

Ha, I was the MIC there for about 6 years in aviation. I still am with the company (who was bought out by IBM my new employer), but in more of a customer success role. So weather related in terms of solutions, but not forecasting directly. It's most certainly different lol. I miss the weather stuff too.

But the office is going back in as well and I may do so for at least a day...more or less to see some old friends there. I do miss the office comradery and I agree with Phin and Jerry that round table meetings in person seem way better than webex/zoom etc. 

[Chrisrotary12]

17 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I took a new position back in May that is fully remote. My team is all over the US. This might be just me, but I do find remote work and the flexibility it allows, highly valuable. I can get up, start some work at 6:30 for an hour, help get the kids ready and my wife out the door (who works 3 days a week at the office). Then come back and work some more until I pick my son up from school. Do more work...get dinner going around 5 so that we eat when my wife gets home. If need be, I can work later. I also have the flexibility of doing something for myself like the gym early morning or lunch time if need be. Some days I spread my work day, some days I can't. As long as the work gets done. 

I find myself much more relaxed abd productive instead of commuting 40 miles each way through the city and wasting 3 hrs a day just commuting. 

All of this but especially the bolded part. 

[Ginx snewx]

21 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I took a new position back in May that is fully remote. My team is all over the US. This might be just me, but I do find remote work and the flexibility it allows, highly valuable. I can get up, start some work at 6:30 for an hour, help get the kids ready and my wife out the door (who works 3 days a week at the office). Then come back and work some more until I pick my son up from school. Do more work...get dinner going around 5 so that we eat when my wife gets home. If need be, I can work later. I also have the flexibility of doing something for myself like the gym early morning or lunch time if need be. Some days I spread my work day, some days I can't. As long as the work gets done. 

I find myself much more relaxed abd productive instead of commuting 40 miles each way through the city and wasting 3 hrs a day just commuting. 

That's ideal man. Awesome 

[Typhoon Tip]

11 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

So a few things that I think are going to happen if they aren’t already.

There is going to be some serious device tracking, and data logging of employee activities if they are working from home. I’m sure this has started in some places, but it’s definitely going to pick up moving forward.

There is also going to be tighter enforcement on paid time off, and when it’s used. You aren’t going to be able to open your computer at 7am and have w tee time at 715.

America is really good at sucking anything good out of employment, so I’m sure over time WFH will be made so unpalatable, most people just won’t want to do it. This is one time, I don’t necessarily disagree with the tightening the screws a bit 

I get the idea why you suggest that ... but, this gets into a possible infringement legality.  

Now ... it is corporate property if you are working through a secure VPN that's provided via company IT, and/or on a delivered lap-top ( etc...). Those may contain existing mouse click and key-stroke counters, anyway.  They probably would be the same on these hosted systems, regardless of one being on-site or away.  

I really think the biggest metric is: aer deliverables content/contribution quotas met?   If those slope off, it's no different in a perf review, then being at the office.  I shared an on-site office space with a jar for 7 months before they canned him.

What it really seems to be - to me - is a petty distrust in other people that drives the home vs office debate. Like all pettiness, it's usually full of shit or just empty.  It's just dressed in other rhetoric and mantras trying to substantiate.  So long as deliverables are meeting prerequisites/expectations, tough f'n shit man.  They really don't have anything.   They got what they want from you, you get compensated - end of discussion.  And that will win in courts.

[mreaves]

27 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I took a new position back in May that is fully remote. My team is all over the US. This might be just me, but I do find remote work and the flexibility it allows, highly valuable. I can get up, start some work at 6:30 for an hour, help get the kids ready and my wife out the door (who works 3 days a week at the office). Then come back and work some more until I pick my son up from school. Do more work...get dinner going around 5 so that we eat when my wife gets home. If need be, I can work later. I also have the flexibility of doing something for myself like the gym early morning or lunch time if need be. Some days I spread my work day, some days I can't. As long as the work gets done. 

I find myself much more relaxed abd productive instead of commuting 40 miles each way through the city and wasting 3 hrs a day just commuting. 

That's the best part of WFH.  I will say though, I took a new position in an entirely different department and there are some days that I feel like I'm struggling to really learn the new stuff.  Phin mentioned it above, it can be difficult for newbies.

[CoastalWx]

4 minutes ago, mreaves said:

That's the best part of WFH.  I will say though, I took a new position in an entirely different department and there are some days that I feel like I'm struggling to really learn the new stuff.  Phin mentioned it above, it can be difficult for newbies.

I was drowning through the summer. It was not easy, and I still struggle learning remotely at times. But I've learned to say **** it and ask questions. I don't care if I look dumb. I only know what I know. 

[CoastalWx]

16 minutes ago, Chrisrotary12 said:

All of this but especially the bolded part. 

I would come home sometimes ready to skull **** someone lol. Effing traffic in Boston was brutal. Still is.