TauntonBlizzard2013 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said: It's been obvious for months what was coming. Everyone except the Ukraine I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoth Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 IMO, this is where you need leaders with real backbone. Putin senses weakness in the West. They've been appeasing and appealing to diplomacy and instituting weak sanctions. Guys like Putin only respect force. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROOSTA Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 SAD! Pray for the people of Ukraine. I visited Kiev back in 2012, a beautiful City and Country. The only thing they'll be guilty of is a want for democracy and strive for freedom. It's 1938 all over again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoth Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Ballistic missiles are striking control centers in Kyiv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said: Everyone except the Ukraine I guess Russian troop have been gathered on their border for months and the Eastern Province, pro-Russian factions, have been receiving Russian military aid for years. The Donbas region has been open about it's loyalty to Russia and has invited this. Putin sees a US in political disarray, major NATO nations distracted with political and economic issues and a divided Ukraine and he decided it was time to move in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 There is nothing we can do about Taiwan either. The US simply doesn't have the stomach for a fight like this in the current political climate. We didn't even have the stomach to really deal with a bunch of goat herders living in caves. They beat us. Any intervention in Ukraine would lead to death and destruction not seen on US TVs since Vietnam. I mean jets shot down, many dead and wounded in large battles, tanks on fire, etc. Russia is no joke. If we went to war over Taiwan, picture a US aircraft carrier sinking with thousands of sailors in the water. Think the US population can handle that image and rally? We are really soft right now and also predictable. Putin knows it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Hoth said: Ballistic missiles are striking control centers in Kyiv. Haven't seen that but there are reports that landing operations by Russia's Black Sea fleet are under way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorEastermass128 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 What a menace. Our extended era of peace and relative prosperity may be coming to an end, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreaves Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said: Russian troop have been gathered on their border for months and the Eastern Province, pro-Russian factions, have been receiving Russian military aid for years. The Donbas region has been open about it's loyalty to Russia and has invited this. Putin sees a US in political disarray, major NATO nations distracted with political and economic issues and a divided Ukraine and he decided it was time to move in. And it doesn’t help when we have a former President declaring it to be a great move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said: Russian troop have been gathered on their border for months and the Eastern Province, pro-Russian factions, have been receiving Russian military aid for years. The Donbas region has been open about it's loyalty to Russia and has invited this. Putin sees a US in political disarray, major NATO nations distracted with political and economic issues and a divided Ukraine and he decided it was time to move in. It's not clear the regime in Ukraine will even put up much of a fight. Decent chance they simply flee if it gets to that. Same thing would happen in Taiwan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarloaf1989 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 I'm first generation American, half Polish and half German. Poland isn't exactly thrilled with what's going on in Ukraine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, mreaves said: And it doesn’t help when we have a former President declaring it to be a great move. Yeah, that was unbelievable, even for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoth Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, NorEastermass128 said: What a menace. Our extended era of peace and relative prosperity may be coming to an end, sadly. Strange echoes of the thirties. We had our near miss with a depression in '08, followed by a decade of growing civil discord all over the world. Now, possibly, a major war. Let's hope not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Sugarloaf1989 said: I'm first generation American, half Polish and half German. Poland isn't exactly thrilled with what's going on in Ukraine. OK, so where is the EU? This is closer to being their problem than our problem. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoth Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, mreaves said: And it doesn’t help when we have a former President declaring it to be a great move. That was truly disgusting. Absolutely unforgivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 10 minutes ago, Hoth said: Ballistic missiles are striking control centers in Kyiv. OK, just saw Marco Rubio's tweet about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarloaf1989 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, PhineasC said: OK, so where is the EU? This is closer to being their problem than our problem. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorEastermass128 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Hoth said: Strange echoes of the thirties. We had our near miss with a depression in '08, followed by a decade of growing civil discord all over the world. Now, possibly, a major war. Let's hope not. I hope this fizzles out. This just feels different somehow. I heard reports that Macron observed that Putin has changed markedly in the past two years, more cut off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarloaf1989 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 I'm watching ABC live and the opinion is that Putin isn't land grabbing, only out to teach Ukraine a lesson. Not sure I buy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, Sugarloaf1989 said: I'm watching ABC live and the opinion is that Putin isn't land grabbing, only out to teach Ukraine a lesson. Not sure I buy that. He is annexing Eastern Ukraine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoth Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, PhineasC said: There is nothing we can do about Taiwan either. The US simply doesn't have the stomach for a fight like this in the current political climate. We didn't even have the stomach to really deal with a bunch of goat herders living in caves. I seem to recall that we drove them into those caves. No military is made for endless occupation and ceaseless insurgent guerilla warfare. When we've sent our boys in en masse, we generally are quite effective at taking territory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Looks like UKBB has stopped reporting obs as of 330z. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Hoth said: I seem to recall that we drove them into those caves. No military is made for endless occupation and ceaseless insurgent guerilla warfare. When we've sent our boys in en masse, we generally are quite effective at taking territory. We haven't been tested against a near-peer power in many, many decades. Iraq in 1991 was the last conventional military we fought and they were nothing compared to Russia. Sending the boys into the Ukraine would mean a lot of dead and wounded and major losses to equipment. It would be a huge shock to this country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoth Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, PhineasC said: We haven't been tested against a near-peer power in many, many decades. Iraq in 1991 was the last conventional military we fought and they were nothing compared to Russia. Sending the boys into the Ukraine would mean a lot of dead and wounded and major losses to equipment. It would be a huge shock to this country. I don't disagree. I hope it doesn't come to that. I don't much care for the idea of being drafted. Knees are getting a little creaky in my late 30s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Rubio is on the senate intelligence committee and is actively tweeting. Full scale invasion seems to be underway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarloaf1989 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 If this really gets out of control, Poland is going to have a refugee crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreaves Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 10 minutes ago, PhineasC said: OK, so where is the EU? This is closer to being their problem than our problem. You can say this and they need to step up too but this was the deal we made to make the dollar the de facto world currency and maintain our international leadership position. Is it worth it? Not sure. I’m also not sure I want to find out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, Hoth said: I don't disagree. I hope it doesn't come to that. I don't think it will because there is exactly zero interest amongst average people in the Western countries for that kind of intervention. This is not viewed as our fight by the Joe Sixpack types, IMO. So we will just talk a lot and implement weak sanctions and that will be it. Only question for me is will the Ukrainian regime just totally collapse now that Putin has kicked the barn door down or will they stand and fight? I think the former. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROOSTA Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 War, like murder is only done by Crazy people. Humanity wise when will we learn, complete insanity! FOX News should have their license revoked. I will never watch FOX ever again, even turn the volume off during sporting events. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, PhineasC said: I don't think it will because there is exactly zero interest amongst average people in the Western countries for that kind of intervention. This is not viewed as our fight by the Joe Sixpack types, IMO. So we will just talk a lot and implement weak sanctions and that will be it. Only question for me is will the Ukrainian regime just totally collapse now that Putin has kicked the barn door down or will they stand and fight? I think the former. The Ukraine leadership will save a lot of lives by just fleeing into exile. They have no chance of military victory. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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