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E PA/NJ/ DE Winter 2021-22 OBS Thread


JTA66
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I think the gfs is too cold. I’m not worried about ice at all down in the 95 corridor and even the surrounding burbs I think will be mostly ice free. Temps are going to hit 50. It’s going to have a hard time accreting even after temps fall below freezing. I think we at most see a coating of sleet at the end of the storm. Now areas n and w where temps will be closer to freezing during most of the precip, I’d be worried. Places like Lehigh Valley and out by Paul, I could definitely see a heavy ice event for you guys.

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11 minutes ago, The Iceman said:

I think the gfs is too cold. I’m not worried about ice at all down in the 95 corridor and even the surrounding burbs I think will be mostly ice free. Temps are going to hit 50. It’s going to have a hard time accreting even after temps fall below freezing. I think we at most see a coating of sleet at the end of the storm. Now areas n and w where temps will be closer to freezing during most of the precip, I’d be worried. Places like Lehigh Valley and out by Paul, I could definitely see a heavy ice event for you guys.

That's what I've been thinking, even if the GFS is right. This isn't a typical ice storm set up for us. Usually the cold is already entrenched when precip moves in. But it's going to be warm and wet before any change over, I think it would be difficult for ice to accrete unless it was a prolonged icing event.

But yeah, thinking this is a non-event in and around the city. Maybe some pingers and mangled flakes mixing in at the end, but right now the GFS is on its own.

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10 minutes ago, JTA66 said:

That's what I've been thinking, even if the GFS is right. This isn't a typical ice storm set up for us. Usually the cold is already entrenched when precip moves in. But it's going to be warm and wet before any change over, I think it would be difficult for ice to accrete unless it was a prolonged icing event.

But yeah, thinking this is a non-event in and around the city. Maybe some pingers and mangled flakes mixing in at the end, but right now the GFS is on its own.

There are a couple more on the GFS long range including a pre-Valentine's scoot-by and on Valentine's Day frontal passage/apps runner.

floop-gfs-2022020206.prateptype_cat.conus-6z-feb12-storm-02022022.gif

floop-gfs-2022020206.prateptype_cat.conus-6z-feb14-storm-02022022.gif

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35 minutes ago, KamuSnow said:

Dense freezing fog here, temp @ 27F, visibility about 500 ft. Pretty cool, looks like very heavy snow at first glance, snow on the ground helps that effect. Gotta be some slickness on roads it would seem.

Roads are all still treated from the previous storm so there were no issues at least for me on the way into work and I take mostly all local roads, no highways. The walk to the car though was iffy, my walkway was very slick and my car was coated in ice. 

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Upon further glance, I think even most areas of Berks and Chester should be mostly ice free, maybe some slick spots up there but nothing devastating with power outage and tree damage. Now Central PA and the Pocono region is a much different story. That is where the biggest ice threat looks to be at the moment. 

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34 minutes ago, KamuSnow said:

Dense freezing fog here, temp @ 27F, visibility about 500 ft. Pretty cool, looks like very heavy snow at first glance, snow on the ground helps that effect. Gotta be some slickness on roads it would seem.

The car had a icy glaze but travel is fine around here. Maybe some leftover brine/salt from the weekend storm on the roads because I don't think they treated the roads this morning. At least I didn't see any trucks out...

Fog/28F

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IMHO sometimes too much info in the pin point forecasting is dangerous. This is a fine example of this in this mornings forecast as seen below. Wording of the forecast leads to believe there will be no problem driving around the the LV.  Could not be further from the truth.

For one,  I am real glad the rainfall totals are up there but this is 80-100% strictly runoff event and not getting into the ground and recharging as the ground is still frozen.  All this winter storm event will do is raise the stream  levels to bankfull and minor road ponding.  Any thawing of the first few inches of soil will have the door quickly slammed shut and be refrozen by Saturday morning. Worst of all, it appears Friday evening into Saturday will be accident central in the LV spreading south  as the roads freeze up quickly after the frontal passage and any snow and sleet that does fall will get compacted down.  Going to be a real ice skating rink for sure. 

The big race will be on going to actually how fast PADOT can place salt on the road before it freezes. With no brining available because of the heavy rain potential, only immediate salt placement is going to help. Timing will be everything and I would not want to be driving anywhere early Friday evening around here, especially on the rural roads.

Even though this may be only an winter advisory level event, I would recommend MT Holly at least issue a winter storm watch to get the public aware of this severe road surface icing potential. This is one storm event that MT Holly needs to be on the  precautionary side and actually accept being in err on it not happening rather than take a wait and see reactionary attitude.  Residents in our area have not experienced this flash freeze potential situation in a dozen years or so. Timing is everything. To sum it up, there are way too many party goers on Friday night around here and I think they will be surprised how quickly the roads will turn to crap. 

 

Thursday Night
Rain. Low around 31. East wind 5 to 10 mph becoming west after midnight. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New precipitation amounts between 1 and 2 inches possible.
Friday
Freezing rain before 1pm, then a chance of sleet between 1pm and 4pm, then a chance of snow after 4pm. High near 35. North wind around 10 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New ice accumulation of less than a 0.1 of an inch possible. New snow and sleet accumulation of less than a half inch possible.
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Mt. Holly had lofted a Dense fog advisory for the Philly metro area and also had a mention of freezing fog earlier (although where I am in Philly with below 32 temps currently at 30, it's freezing on the cars and colder surfaces.  The streets and walks are treated but there was obviously some snow melt yesterday with the temps.

 

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I mean look at the 12z NAM temps.. at 09z areas even up in the lehigh valley are still into the 40's

sfct.us_ne.png

 

Then as the "freezing rain" moves in, temps are still only 30-31 in the Lehigh Valley, that isn't going to accrete. 

sfct.us_ne.png

 

ref1km_ptype.us_ne.png

 

Temps won't be into the mid 20's until the precip is just about over. Could the Lehigh Valley see a flash freeze? Maybe, but with it being during the daytime that would also be pretty unusual.  I just do not see devastating ice storm in this set up for anywhere but NEPA into central PA. Untreated roads may be slick Friday morning in the Lehigh Valley but by Friday night, roads will have all been treated and mostly dried out. Philly and the Burbs, this is a purely rain event at this point. And FWIW the GFS isn't all that different, a tad colder so the "freezing rain" gets down into the Philly burbs but the same issues exist as the NAM.

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14 minutes ago, The Iceman said:

I mean look at the 12z NAM temps.. at 09z areas even up in the lehigh valley are still into the 40's

sfct.us_ne.png

 

Then as the "freezing rain" moves in, temps are still only 30-31 in the Lehigh Valley, that isn't going to accrete. 

sfct.us_ne.png

 

ref1km_ptype.us_ne.png

 

Temps won't be into the mid 20's until the precip is just about over. Could the Lehigh Valley see a flash freeze? Maybe, but with it being during the daytime that would also be pretty unusual.  I just do not see devastating ice storm in this set up for anywhere but NEPA into central PA. Untreated roads may be slick Friday morning in the Lehigh Valley but by Friday night, roads will have all been treated and mostly dried out. Philly and the Burbs, this is a purely rain event at this point. And FWIW the GFS isn't all that different, a tad colder so the "freezing rain" gets down into the Philly burbs but the same issues exist as the NAM.

Both the 6z Euro and GFS even had temps in those ranges at that time frame.

floop-ecmwf_full-2022020206.sfct.us_ma-6z-feb3-5-storm-temps-02022022.gif

floop-gfs-2022020206.sfct.us_ma-6z-feb3-5-storm-temps-02022022.gif

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3 minutes ago, Birds~69 said:

I'm almost to the point where I would punt the rest of winter in exchange for above average severe weather Spring and below normal Summer temps...

weenie.jpg

I’d like to see at least one Warning type criteria snowfall out here then yeah this cold and no snow is getting old here. I mean sit at 9.5” for season but that’s 3 snowfalls 

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Just now, penndotguy said:

I’d like to see at least one Warning type criteria snowfall out here then yeah this cold and no snow is getting old here. I mean sit at 9.5” for season but that’s 3 snowfalls 

I'm just looking ahead to the next 7+ days and as far as snow it's kinda meh...which brings us to about Feb 10th.

32F/Still foggy

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Had a low of 13.7, with dense freezing fog this morning. It must not have been around long, because there was no accrual in the trees, unlike an event last week. The fog has since cleared out now, and 38.1 degrees.

Some stats to round out January in the Sourlands:

Mean Max: 36.8
Mean Min: 16.7
Mean temp: 27.1

Highest temp: 59.0 on 1/2
Lowest temp: 1.0 on 1/31

7 Days with a high below 32
(Lowest high 21.2)
28 Days with a low below 32
(10 in 0s)
(8 in 10s)
(10 in 20s)
One day with a low of 32.1
There were several days where the high/low just missed criteria.

Snowfall: 14.9"

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Mt Holly morning AFD:

As we go through Thursday night and Friday, the southeastward
progression of the arctic front occurs and this will be key in
the timing of the initial shallow cold air seeping eastward. A
sharp temperature gradient will exist with this front, and at
least a couple ripples of low pressure will be tracking along
it. Along and north of the wave and west of the front,
temperatures will drop rapidly supporting rain changing to
freezing/frozen precipitation. The temperature drop could also
start resulting in a rapid freeze-up across our western zones
especially during the day. The model forecast soundings indicate
the low levels quickly cool with a deep warm layer aloft
gradually cooling with time. This points to a period of freezing
rain then to sleet then to snow before ending. The guidance is
trending faster with the colder air arriving, although the GFS
still looks to be the coldest. We went ahead and sped up the
colder air arriving and therefore a quicker changeover
occurring. Some fog may occur for a time as the warmer air along
with higher dew points move over especially lingering
snowcover, although this may be limited due to the presence of a
strong low- level jet.

It looks like the guidance is coming into some better
agreement, however there remains uncertainty regarding how
quickly the low- level cold spreads southeastward during Friday.
The greatest chance for a more prolonged period of
freezing/frozen precipitation will be from the I-78 corridor
northward. As are result, some accumulating ice is expected
across these areas. Some snow/sleet accumulation is expected
although the snow amounts look to be limited. This however will
depend on how quickly the warm layer aloft erodes and how much
moisture remains before ending. We continue to think this looks
like an advisory level event for parts of our area, however
amounts will depend on the cooling of the column and amount of
precipitation falling after colder air arrives. There is an
increasing chance now that the rain changes to some freezing
rain, sleet and/or snow into the I-95 corridor and possibly to
the coast before ending.
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