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December 2021


MJO812
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1 minute ago, MJO812 said:

Not necessarily 

Blocking will do wonders but if not then you are right.

Here's what I see as a problem right now

1. Crazy fast Pac Jet-no precip as short waves just race across the country and don't amplify.

2.  Record SST's off the east coast-going to need a storm to take a perfect track this time of year.  (Later in the year this could work to our advantage)

3.  MJO showing signs of stalling in Ph 6.  (4-5-6 generally suck here)

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10 minutes ago, SnoSki14 said:

Yeah I don't feel good moving forward.

Congrats snowman19 it seems that calling for warm & snowless every year means you'll get it right eventually like a dead clock. 

However if December doesn't play out like typical Nina climo what's to say Jan-March will. So it's too early to say what will happen.

If we torch in Jan and Feb I want an 01-02 or 11-12 style torch....if it won't snow let's have record warmth.

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1 minute ago, Brian5671 said:

If we torch in Jan and Feb I want an 01-02 or 11-12 style torch....if it won't snow let's have record warmth.

I don't see us torching like that either because Canada still looks very cold and the fast flow will prevent big cutters. 

So it'll probably be more of the same warm 1-2 days followed by cool downs. 

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38 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

This is not what we need moving forward.

ao.sprd2.gif

pna.sprd2.gif

ao.sprd2.gif

No, considering the EPO is positive and the WPO is neutral at the same time. I don’t think many expected the PAC to cooperate when we saw the strongest -PDO since 1955 and the coldest GOA since the late 1970’s. When you factor in the La Niña and -PMM (which strongly favors -PNA/RNA), it was obvious our chances this winter were going to have hinge on the AO/NAO

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1 minute ago, MJO812 said:

Hopefully the pattern gets better as December  rolls on because if not then there will be alot of forecasts  busting.

Some already are.   Saw a few "Memorable Thanksgiving to xmas" calls on other boards/sites.   Not looking very likely at this point....

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1 hour ago, Brian5671 said:

There's a stat out there too-if we get no snow or minimal snow in December, the winter will generally suck.  Last year we had the foot in the middle of the month which led to a well above normal snowfall for the season....

I think a good TV met In Westchester County developed that metric 30 years ago.   Of course once DEC is gone, so is at least 25% of winter. Still, there is value added. 

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Two layman's thoughts here: 

- Observing over the years, despite a lot of really impressive calls from way out, I also can remember many times where there was stone cold lead pipe lock consensus that there was no way anything good would be happening in the next three weeks, only for something totally unexpected and good to occur within that timeframe.  So I'm not giving up.

- No matter what, we'll get an annoying 60 degree day in the week leading up to Christmas to mess up the mood.  That seems to be a regular feature around here much of the last 10 or so years.

 

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here are the Decembers with a snowfall 4" or more and what the rest of the winter brought...two years did not have much snow afterwards...

winter.....Dec 4" ....seasonal snow...snowfalls after Dec...

1947-48.....26.4"..........63.2"..........5.7"

1948-49.....16.0"..........46.6"..........9.4"

1952-53.......4.5"..........15.1"............2.0"...the Dec storm was a two part storm with rain in the middle...

1957-58.......8.0"..........44.7"..........11.8"

1959-60.....13.7"..........39.2"..........14.5"

1960-61.....15.2"..........54.7"..........17.4"

1961-62.......6.2"..........18.1"............2.9"...the Dec storm was a two part storm with mix and drizzle in the middle...

1963-64.......6.3"..........44.7"..........12.5"

1966-67.......7.1"..........51.5"..........12.5"

1968-69.......5.2"..........30.2"..........15.3"

1969-70.......6.8"..........25.6"..........4.0"...the Dec storm was two parts with rain in the middle...

1984-85.......4.8"..........24.1"..........5.7"

1990-91.......7.2"..........24.6"..........8.9"

1993-94.......4.0"..........53.4"..........12.8"

1995-96.......7.7"..........75.6"..........20.2"

2000-01.....12.0"..........35.0"............6.0"

2002-03.......6.0" 5.0" 49.3"..........19.8"

2003-04.....14.0"..........42.6"..........10.4"

2005-06.......5.8"..........40.0"..........26.9"

2008-09.......4.0"..........27.6"............8.3"

2009-10.....10.9"..........51.4"..........20.9"

2010-11.....20.0"..........61.9"..........19.0"

2013-14.......5.0"..........57.4"..........12.5"

2017-18.......4.6"..........40.9"..........9.9"

2020-21.....10.5"..........38.6"..........17.4"...

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10 minutes ago, coastalplainsnowman said:

Two layman's thoughts here: 

- Observing over the years, despite a lot of really impressive calls from way out, I also can remember many times where there was stone cold lead pipe lock consensus that there was no way anything good would be happening in the next three weeks, only for something totally unexpected and good to occur within that timeframe.  So I'm not giving up.

- No matter what, we'll get an annoying 60 degree day in the week leading up to Christmas to mess up the mood.  That seems to be a regular feature around here much of the last 10 or so years.

 

I couldn't agree more.  I will never forget how everyone basically gave up on winter in early January 2015.  What followed just weeks later was some of the deepest winter I've ever seen around here.

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18 minutes ago, Eduardo said:

I couldn't agree more.  I will never forget how everyone basically gave up on winter in early January 2015.  What followed just weeks later was some of the deepest winter I've ever seen around here.

Stuff like that is rare though....usually if the goods don't arrive by mid January it's not happening

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The good news is that expectations were lowered when we saw the record -PDO drop this fall. The discussion was about needing impressive Atlantic blocking to counter the record Pacific Jet. Since December has been one of the more +AO + NAO winter months over the last decade, the  biggest winter snows have usually occurred later on. NYC in La Ninas generally requires  3” or more of snow in December for normal to above normal seasonal snowfall since the 1990s. But if we don’t make that number in December, a well placed block in JFM can still produce a nice snowstorm.

 

E851122D-C364-4479-BDCC-304C271AA88E.thumb.png.b0b4c493094ed162957d9c254e7dc4a5.png

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16 minutes ago, bluewave said:

The good news is that expectations were lowered when we saw the record -PDO drop this fall. The discussion was about needing impressive Atlantic blocking to counter the record Pacific Jet. Since December has been one of the more +AO + NAO winter months over the last decade, the  biggest winter snows have usually have occurred later on. NYC in La Ninas generally requires  3” or more of snow in December for normal to above normal seasonal snowfall since the 1990s. But if we don’t make that number in December, a well placed block in JFM can still produce a nice snowstorm.

 

E851122D-C364-4479-BDCC-304C271AA88E.thumb.png.b0b4c493094ed162957d9c254e7dc4a5.png

Or we could be back into an mid 80s to early 90s kind of pattern, which seems to be pretty stable and lasts for a decade lol

 

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1 hour ago, Brian5671 said:

Stuff like that is rare though....usually if the goods don't arrive by mid January it's not happening

Oh yeah 100%!  But my main point is that December is too early to wave the white flag, especially when the models have been flipping and flopping.  If, come the end of the month, our snowfall total is under 3" and the models are looking craptastic, then it'll be time to close the shades.  Until then, I'm holding out hope for some wintertime fun.

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3 hours ago, Eduardo said:

Oh yeah 100%!  But my main point is that December is too early to wave the white flag, especially when the models have been flipping and flopping.  If, come the end of the month, our snowfall total is under 3" and the models are looking craptastic, then it'll be time to close the shades.  Until then, I'm holding out hope for some wintertime fun.

We had 30” of snow in February last winter in some places. We want Dec to produce but it’s one month. 

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7 minutes ago, North and West said:

I like that we’ve given up on winter this year earlier than last. It was around December 7th last year; before December this year is impressive. I’m hoping pre-Thanksgiving in 2022.


.

Good evening N & W. If S19 gets the post limitation cancelled, Labor Day will definitely be in the running. As always ….

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