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Winter 2021/22 December Thread


AMZ8990
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 I think we can deal with the Aleutian ridge.  It is actually common during many good La Nina winters.  The GFS for the past 2-3 runs has shown it basically working to connect over the top with the NAO.  If that occurs the TPV will be forced south into a broad trough between the Rockies and the Apps.  I take the 0z GFS as is....that would likely be an overrunning event if real.

Great discussion, everyone....

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0z EPS wasn't bad. Cold arrives as we approach hr 300, potential overrunning set up unfolding around then. Most of the country outside Florida was BN as deep cold from the west pressed towards us. Hopefully it continues to progress in time. There also seems to be some debate on where the MJO has been. The CPC has had it in 7 for a while now. The Australians have had it in 6 and it seems to have barely crossed into 7 the last couple of days. The weather is definitely more reflective of 6.

 

FB45129-F-5-EC0-4224-AF28-90-BDCCB38234.

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Waiting for the MJO to roll right now.  We may be looking at a pattern change, but more likely a relaxation of some sorts and full change later in January.  However, what is on most modeling this morning is the first hints of the current pattern beginning to break down.  WxBell still has the PNA negative on its run, but that is a PNA ridge that pops on the 6z GFS.  

Oddly, and I thought about this yesterday, but wasn't brave enough to post it.  It is like the -NAO(which normally we want very strong) is causing a buckle which locks the cold out West, because it is in conjunction with the Aleutians high.  When the NAO gets out of the way, it is like a dam breaking.    That said, it does its work by forcing the cold south.  Without it, the cold would slide across the northern border states.  Not saying that is the gospel, but it did cross my mind.  

Reading through the MA forum which has a great winter thread going as well, they mention the NAO is more strongly correlated to eastern cold during mid and later winter.  

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Appreciate all of the play by play from y'all. There seems to be much disappointment/frustration out there from many on our current pattern and the forecast for the next two weeks. However, my hope is that we can time up a slow tour through MJO phases 8 - 2 just in time for our peak winter period in mid to late January. All those of us outside the mountains need is a week or two of the goods.

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2 hours ago, Carvers Gap said:

Have to think the typhoon was causing havoc last week.

Don't look now, but the 6z GFS sees another one:

giphy.gif?cid=790b76110ee15e2425daac9e23

 

That run has more of a recurve than last week's so maybe, if it forms and recurves, it can shake up the north Pac? Or maybe it reinforces the same old, same old. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Holston_River_Rambler said:

I will say not too many EPS members see a TC in that area, but some do. Prolly a low risk right now, but something to watch. 

You'd think those SSTs there would be cooled enuff from all the tcs there recently that development there would cease, or at least weaken their strength if they move thru there. Confounded area! Lol

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7 hours ago, Holston_River_Rambler said:

Don't look now, but the 6z GFS sees another one:

giphy.gif?cid=790b76110ee15e2425daac9e23

 

That run has more of a recurve than last week's so maybe, if it forms and recurves, it can shake up the north Pac? Or maybe it reinforces the same old, same old. 

 

 

And that would make some since given what we are seeing in the LR.

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Three straight days of BN temps at TRI.  Will today be a fourth?  Modeling pretty much nailed the pattern just prior to Christmas as it did the days prior to the 20th.  It likely will nail the pattern after Christmas as well from the 25th to the 31st.  We are now watching the pattern just after New Year's.  See John's post above.  Welcome to the world of extremes.  Base warm pattern with interludes of cold(maybe severe cold at times).  What we need, to grab a quote from another thread, is an active STJ.  Dry conditions are our main nemesis, not just the longer interludes warm wx.  

Looks like we get another amplification of the eastern trough around Jan 3rd.  That looks like a window with some potential.  Modeling has been fairly adamant that we will see a trough roll through then.  So, it is progressing along.  What happens after that potential cold shot is open for much debate.  January is one of those months that doesn't require strong BN temps for snow.  Even slightly AN temps will get the job done.  

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52 minutes ago, Carvers Gap said:

Three straight days of BN temps at TRI.  Will today be a fourth?  Modeling pretty much nailed the pattern just prior to Christmas as it did the days prior to the 20th.  It likely will nail the pattern after Christmas as well from the 25th to the 31st.  We are now watching the pattern just after New Year's.  See John's post above.  Welcome to the world of extremes.  Base warm pattern with interludes of cold(maybe severe cold at times).  What we need, to grab a quote from another thread, is an active STJ.  Dry conditions are our main nemesis, not just the longer interludes warm wx.  

Looks like we get another amplification of the eastern trough around Jan 3rd.  That looks like a window with some potential.  Modeling has been fairly adamant that we will see a trough roll through then.  So, it is progressing along.  What happens after that potential cold shot is open for much debate.  January is one of those months that doesn't require strong BN temps for snow.  Even slightly AN temps will get the job done.  

Nice to see modeling stay consistent with a southern storm around the 3-5th of January.  Been showing up on modeling for 2-3 days now.  Definitely something to keep an eye on going forward.  Also- If it makes anyone feel better , Chicago is about to set a record for longest amount of time between measurable snow events.  There around 215 days straight without a trace or more of snow.  I only say this to show how hard it’s been to get snow the past year in areas that normally receive a lot of snow yearly.  

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3 hours ago, Carvers Gap said:

12z GFS... Much different run.  Cold has come earlier.  EPO ridge is in place after the 1st and AN heights into the GOA.  Good trends overall.

Carvers, that's what our thoughts have been, once that block is realized. Maybe, some of the younger crowd will take note. As you and a couple other Veterans have basically preached; Models are not good with blocking and generally(although,not always as we've saw in recent years with a SER,-NAO connect)adjust as they are more realized in range. Happens more times than not. 

    

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Is the MJO really moving that much or is this constructive interference from a EW?

The Equatorial subsurface temp has rose the last couple days and you also saw the SOI flip flop back into a more NINO but now its back to NINA so it had a brief hit on NINA but it still looks rather healthy.

My bet is it will turn possibly cold into the 2nd week of Jan., but nothing seems to be locking nothing in.CFS seems to want the MJO to strengthen back into Africa into Jan then into the IO after but i wouldnt rely on that right now.

Mid 70's possible Christmas day,possible severe weather next weekwhat season is this?

 

Tropical Monitoring __ North Carolina Institute for Climate Studies (2).png

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2 hours ago, Daniel Boone said:

Carvers, that's what our thoughts have been, once that block is realized. Maybe, some of the younger crowd will take note. As you and a couple other Veterans have basically preached; Models are not good with blocking and generally(although,not always as we've saw in recent years with a SER,-NAO connect)adjust as they are more realized in range. Happens more times than not. 

    

Interestingly, the 18z GFS is sort of doubling down on the same deal.  It is hammering the Aleutian high(edit).  

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Trough eventually lifts out, but I am starting to wonder if we might be seeing the initial seeds planted for a pattern reset.  GFS is likely early, but it has hammered the Aleutian ridge during several recent runs.  Not saying the reset will be any better.  The LR result of that is the PV lifts northward, and we are left with zonal.  Nor worried, that will very likely not be the same next run.

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I like your optimism Carver, but I really truly believe winter is over already other than a few cool days behind a front. Pattern is locked in and we got alot against us in terms of any significant cold. Nothing we can do about it. I will be shocked beyond belief if we get a big shakeup this winter. Sorry to be negative guys

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