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December 2021 Medium/Long Range Discussion Thread


North Balti Zen
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24 minutes ago, StormchaserChuck! said:

Real nice -NAO here at 384hr on Christmas. 3 strong cold waves around. -PNA with it too though. 

I think we had a progressing -NAO in Aug, Sept, Oct, Nov so we can do this. 

I suppose SWFE/gradient events could work out with the -PNA but iirc it helps to have a -AO in place also for those to work out for both of our respective regions. Otherwise the gradient tends to relax to our N. A strong 50/50 under the -NAO would help also which has been hinted at in the LR ensemble with weakness hanging out in that region. 

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1 hour ago, Ralph Wiggum said:

I suppose SWFE/gradient events could work out with the -PNA but iirc it helps to have a -AO in place also for those to work out for both of our respective regions. Otherwise the gradient tends to relax to our N. A strong 50/50 under the -NAO would help also which has been hinted at in the LR ensemble with weakness hanging out in that region. 

Yeah, our best pattern for big snowstorms is GOA Low, which is actually not far from -PNA(-PDO pattern). Problem can be the STJ.

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4 hours ago, Chris78 said:

6z kind of shows this in the 8 to 10 day time frame.

Doesn't get the job done but you could see a scenario with a bit of  stronger push from the north where a overrunning event could happen. Currently depicted the run has some snow up in PA.

 

2 hours ago, Ralph Wiggum said:

I suppose SWFE/gradient events could work out with the -PNA but iirc it helps to have a -AO in place also for those to work out for both of our respective regions. Otherwise the gradient tends to relax to our N. A strong 50/50 under the -NAO would help also which has been hinted at in the LR ensemble with weakness hanging out in that region. 

12z gfs and GGEM both are close with this idea 

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10 minutes ago, poolz1 said:

Phase 8 with decent amplitude....GEFS should continue to look decent toward the end of the run. Euro with the same look but just a little delayed by a day or two.

diagram_40days_forecast_GEFSBC_member.gif.c5e69f5c67c057332c346136b0651837.gif

Nice trends and if we are going to get a decent pattern heading into January is damn good time for it.

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19 minutes ago, BristowWx said:

One of the better GEFS runs at h5 up top near Xmas so far

LOT to like on that GEFS run. -AO and -NAO builds from east-based to west-based by post-Xmas. And the -EPO keeps nudging eastward in time pushing the western trough more into the Rockies and high plains. And GEFS has actually been accelerating the changes rather than can-kicking. We were wondering about that given that the MJO phases forecast was not jiving with the H5 look. 

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10 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

LOT to like on that GEFS run. -AO and -NAO builds from east-based to west-based by post-Xmas. And the -EPO keeps nudging eastward in time pushing the western trough more into the Rockies and high plains. And GEFS has actually been accelerating the changes rather than can-kicking. We were wondering about that given that the MJO phases forecast was not jiving with the H5 look. 

Been trying to resist commenting on here lately, but I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling burned by last year's "no cold air around" -NAO...lol How would you compare this to last year?

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3 minutes ago, Maestrobjwa said:

Been trying to resist commenting on here lately, but I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling burned by last year's "no cold air around" -NAO...lol How would you compare this to last year?

It might not end up helping us much, but Canada is frigid this go around whereas last year Canada was almost completely above normal.

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43 minutes ago, Eskimo Joe said:

Trying to learn more about the MJO. Anyone got resources that a noob could use to educate themselves?

The basics are pretty simple if you use these two references and match the variable to the phase from the ensembles.

Temperature: https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/MJO/Composites/Temperature/

Precip: https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/MJO/Composites/Precipitation/

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1 hour ago, IUsedToHateCold said:

I think late Dec/early January will be cold (below normal temps), the question is whether or not there will be any precip.  Perhaps our best chances for a storm are when the -NAO lifts out?

We do well when entering or exiting a pattern. We tend to only do clippers when inside "the pattern".

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1 hour ago, psuhoffman said:

We should start getting fantasy unicorn storms soon 

This setup is starting to look better. This period has been popping a transient but stout PNA ridge and has southern energy meandering East with the blocking propagating towards Greenland from Scandinavia. These looks are getting nearer and time so I am starting to believe this pattern shift isn't just a head fake.

Eta: maybe not a "pattern change" totally as it could prove to be transient. But in Nina I have learned that it is these pattern reloads where we have our better chances and need to eventually cash-in during late Dec/Jan. 

gfs_z500a_nhem_42.png

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