J.Spin Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 6 hours ago, powderfreak said: As we discussed the groomer conditions are often much better without the big wide open exposed/steeper trails that get scoured and heavier traffic. Yeah, I don’t want to give the impression that Stowe is any different than equivalent mountains around here with steep terrain and high speed lifts – I just focused on it specifically to address Alex’s comment. Jay, ‘bush, Killington, etc. are all in the same boat when there’s been a thaw/freeze without a resurfacing storm. Even the lower capacity places like Smugg’s, MRG, Bolton etc. are in that boat, they just have a little more time before conditions deteriorate because of lower levels of skier traffic. The reality is that there’s no way to maintain decent snow quality on steep, on piste terrain after a thaw/freeze, unless there’s a significant resurfacing storm, or a resort wants to make a ton of snow and resurface a certain trail. The off piste and/or lower angle terrain are generally the places with far better snow quality in these situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted March 6, 2022 Author Share Posted March 6, 2022 1 hour ago, J.Spin said: (shrug) I’m not sure what to tell you, aside from the fact that you must not ski around here in NVT a lot? Alex literally just wrote that they skied Sunrise/Birch glades several times and they were great, so they’re either part of that miniscule 1%, or your numbers are off. He is limited to five posts a day for a reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 1 hour ago, J.Spin said: Yeah, I don’t want to give the impression that Stowe is any different than equivalent mountains around here with steep terrain and high speed lifts – I just focused on it specifically to address Alex’s comment. Jay, ‘bush, Killington, etc. are all in the same boat when there’s been a thaw/freeze without a resurfacing storm. Even the lower capacity places like Smugg’s, MRG, Bolton etc. are in that boat, they just have a little more time before conditions deteriorate because of lower levels of skier traffic. The reality is that there’s no way to maintain decent snow quality on steep, on piste terrain after a thaw/freeze, unless there’s a significant resurfacing storm, or a resort wants to make a ton of snow and resurface a certain trail. The off piste and/or lower angle terrain are generally the places with far better snow quality in these situations. They do close off the natural terrain after these thaws to save what they can. got soaked this morning. Was nice and dry until the moment I got off the first lift. Apparently it’s time to re waterproof my gloves. Well worth it for the back to back powder days prior. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted March 6, 2022 Author Share Posted March 6, 2022 7 minutes ago, Hitman said: They do close off the natural terrain after these thaws to save what they can. got soaked this morning. Was nice and dry until the moment I got off the first lift. Apparently it’s time to re waterproof my gloves. Well worth it for the back to back powder days prior. We will get back out tomorrow. Doesn’t look too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 2 hours ago, J.Spin said: (shrug) I’m not sure what to tell you, aside from the fact that you must not ski around here in NVT a lot? Alex literally just wrote that they skied Sunrise/Birch glades several times and they were great, so they’re either part of that miniscule 1%, or your numbers are off. I wish it was only 1% lol. That would mean on a normal Stowe midweek day that only 15-30 people are skiing the woods (myself and friends would occupy almost 30% of that, ha) and on a max capacity Saturday there might be 80 skiers/riders heading to the woods. We both know that’s a pipe dream. I’d wager it’s up to as high as 50% or more on a powder day up in NVT. I’ve never heard anyone say, in 15 years in the industry, something like “I drive past all the other ski areas to get to Jay Peak for their groomed runs.” A lot of people ski the trees on a regular basis and it’s a large reason why they pick certain mountains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted March 6, 2022 Author Share Posted March 6, 2022 16 minutes ago, powderfreak said: I wish it was only 1% lol. That would mean on a normal Stowe midweek day that only 15-30 people are skiing the woods (myself and friends would occupy almost 30% of that, ha) and on a max capacity Saturday there might be 80 skiers/riders heading to the woods. We both know that’s a pipe dream. I’d wager it’s up to as high as 50% or more on a powder day up in NVT. I’ve never heard anyone say, in 15 years in the industry, something like “I drive past all the other ski areas to get to Jay Peak for their groomed runs.” A lot of people ski the trees on a regular basis and it’s a large reason why they pick certain mountains. I do think people drive further for the groomers at BW. Clearly, that’s their bread and butter. I can see how people get bored there. I get bored and go to Wildcat. I would imagine people drive further for the off-trail stuff over your way. I think that’s exactly what you are getting at. People also probably drive further to get to Cannon or Wildcat and do battle there. It’s great to be in NNE and have options! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreaves Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, powderfreak said: I wish it was only 1% lol. That would mean on a normal Stowe midweek day that only 15-30 people are skiing the woods (myself and friends would occupy almost 30% of that, ha) and on a max capacity Saturday there might be 80 skiers/riders heading to the woods. We both know that’s a pipe dream. I’d wager it’s up to as high as 50% or more on a powder day up in NVT. I’ve never heard anyone say, in 15 years in the industry, something like “I drive past all the other ski areas to get to Jay Peak for their groomed runs.” A lot of people ski the trees on a regular basis and it’s a large reason why they pick certain mountains. Remember those guys a few years ago who liked skiing the trees up at Jay so much that they cut their own line down to 242? I think they were fined something like $17,000 for unauthorized cutting on state land. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, PhineasC said: I do think people drive further for the groomers at BW. Clearly, that’s their bread and butter. I can see how people get bored there. I get bored and go to Wildcat. I would imagine people drive further for the off-trail stuff over your way. I think that’s exactly what you are getting at. People also probably drive further to get to Cannon or Wildcat and do battle there. It’s great to be in NNE and have options! Oh for sure at BW. Up here though you drive past many mountains known for great grooming and cruising like Okemo, Stratton, etc in SVT… if that’s your main jam you aren’t going an extra 2 hours to get to N.VT which really isn’t known for its groomers. I don’t think you’d ever see any of the Sugarbush to Jay Peak stretch hills on any top 10 list for grooming. I personally think Stowe isn’t a great mountain when weather dictates only groomers. My first year at UVM we were all sort of like “I don’t really get it, not a ton of trail options.” But then the second year we had people show us around off-trail and how to really ski the mountain connecting woods and natural snow trails and it was like ohhhh now I get it. You start on one trail, ski it to woods, pop out in another trail, ski bumps for a bit then go back in woods and end up on another trail, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 9 minutes ago, powderfreak said: Oh for sure at BW. Up here though you drive past many mountains known for great grooming and cruising like Okemo, Stratton, etc in SVT… if that’s your main jam you aren’t going an extra 2 hours to get to N.VT which really isn’t known for its groomers. I don’t think you’d ever see any of the Sugarbush to Jay Peak stretch hills on any top 10 list for grooming. I personally think Stowe isn’t a great mountain when weather dictates only groomers. My first year at UVM we were all sort of like “I don’t really get it, not a ton of trail options.” But then the second year we had people show us around off-trail and how to really ski the mountain connecting woods and natural snow trails and it was like ohhhh now I get it. You start on one trail, ski it to woods, pop out in another trail, ski bumps for a bit then go back in woods and end up on another trail, etc. Knowing the mountain obviously helps a ton too like you are saying. Even BW has groomed trails that always seem to be a little icy (Starr King, Deception Bowl, Darby's Drop, sometimes Zealand and Water Tank) unless the conditions are just perfect across the mountain. We blast around over there with our eyes closed and can tell right away if it's one of those days where the usual suspect trails will be rough, so we avoid them. When we went to Sunday River and Wildcat the first time it was all exploratory and we had a lot of mixed conditions. Now we are learning those mountains better too. For the weekend warriors who come up once a year, yeah I can see the challenges at any of these mountains. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 11 minutes ago, PhineasC said: Knowing the mountain obviously helps a ton too like you are saying. Even BW has groomed trails that always seem to be a little icy (Starr King, Deception Bowl, Darby's Drop, sometimes Zealand and Water Tank) unless the conditions are just perfect across the mountain. We blast around over there with our eyes closed and can tell right away if it's one of those days where the usual suspect trails will be rough, so we avoid them. When we went to Sunday River and Wildcat the first time it was all exploratory and we had a lot of mixed conditions. Now we are learning those mountains better too. For the weekend warriors who come up once a year, yeah I can see the challenges at any of these mountains. Yes! For sure. There are certain spots that are always icy (maybe it's wind, pitch, skier pinch point, etc) but after getting to know a mountain you know the trails that can be icy for whatever reason even if there's 10 feet of snow on the ground. You also know the parts of a trail that may be more prone to ice... so you ski a trail a certain way assuming that spot will be icy and focus on the other parts of the trail. Maybe a certain pitch always has ice but you know skiers right is usually much better and snow collects there... so you blast down the trail almost sub-consciously going to sides and parts of trails that are nice. It's like a second nature once you know a mountain. And it leads to a much better run. You can have two people ski the same run and one is like wow that was slick and the other person knew how to ski the trail to get the most out of it, and they think it was in pretty decent shape, ha. Of course it can also just be plain icy skiing when it rains in back-to-back storms and then goes arctic cold with all the dry blower powder that falls afterward blowing into the woods in many areas . Makes for great powder glade pictures while we ice skate on the adjacent trails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, powderfreak said: Yes! For sure. There are certain spots that are always icy (maybe it's wind, pitch, skier pinch point, etc) but after getting to know a mountain you know the trails that can be icy for whatever reason even if there's 10 feet of snow on the ground. You also know the parts of a trail that may be more prone to ice... so you ski a trail a certain way assuming that spot will be icy and focus on the other parts of the trail. Maybe a certain pitch always has ice but you know skiers right is usually much better and snow collects there... so you blast down the trail almost sub-consciously going to sides and parts of trails that are nice. It's like a second nature once you know a mountain. And it leads to a much better run. You can have two people ski the same run and one is like wow that was slick and the other person knew how to ski the trail to get the most out of it, and they think it was in pretty decent shape, ha. Of course it can also just be plain icy skiing when it rains in back-to-back storms and then goes arctic cold with all the dry blower powder that falls afterward blowing into the woods in many areas . Makes for great powder glade pictures while we ice skate on the adjacent trails. Haha yeah I am sometimes out there directing my gang to go to the left or the right side of a trail when I can see from above that clearly the middle section is just totally worn out and down to sheet ice. I'm shouting "stay left, go right, off to the side!!" as they proceed to slide sideways down the middle anyway. Then at the bottom they are all "dad it's too icy today" and I'm like "yeah you should have gone to the right/left when I was shouting it!" LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwt3650 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 8 hours ago, qg_omega said: All of this is pretty absurd, 99 percent of skiers aren’t skiing natural in the woods No one goes to jay to ski upper goat…you actually seem pretty knowledgeable sometimes, despite the trolling, but this is one of your more ridiculous comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwt3650 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 2 hours ago, powderfreak said: Yes! For sure. There are certain spots that are always icy (maybe it's wind, pitch, skier pinch point, etc) but after getting to know a mountain you know the trails that can be icy for whatever reason even if there's 10 feet of snow on the ground. You also know the parts of a trail that may be more prone to ice... so you ski a trail a certain way assuming that spot will be icy and focus on the other parts of the trail. Maybe a certain pitch always has ice but you know skiers right is usually much better and snow collects there... so you blast down the trail almost sub-consciously going to sides and parts of trails that are nice. It's like a second nature once you know a mountain. And it leads to a much better run. You can have two people ski the same run and one is like wow that was slick and the other person knew how to ski the trail to get the most out of it, and they think it was in pretty decent shape, ha. Of course it can also just be plain icy skiing when it rains in back-to-back storms and then goes arctic cold with all the dry blower powder that falls afterward blowing into the woods in many areas . Makes for great powder glade pictures while we ice skate on the adjacent trails. Having a home mountain is such an advantage. 100 percent agree on the trails that are icy even if it’s 3” an hour. Every mountain has them. Upper goat at jay, that pitchy spot on t line or right off the mountain triple at Stowe, upper fis at sugarbush, lower east fall at Killington, just to name a few. I find one big advantage is getting around the mountain. I’ll be like “I want to hit this glade or trail one more time” and know I can do it and cut to where I need to be to get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 "How's the sliding today? Frozen groomers?" "It's more like loose granular on top of pond ice." "10-4." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwt3650 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 9 minutes ago, powderfreak said: "How's the sliding today? Frozen groomers?" "It's more like loose granular on top of pond ice." "10-4." A fun challenge! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Looks like deep winter in town here lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 Yeah tons of running water out there. Wet as hell. This has been quite a stretch above freezing that just keeps going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 14 minutes ago, PhineasC said: Yeah tons of running water out there. Wet as hell. This has been quite a stretch above freezing that just keeps going. Yup the lack of freezing up even to 2,000ft today has really prolonged this warm up. These are the ones that seem like the snowpack is doing ok in what one thinks is the torch… only to realize another 24-30 hours of above freezing temps means otherwise. I always hate that about torches… you feel confident about less snow loss than expected when you are halfway through, but the back half always is brutal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 BW's back to just manmade trails again. Hard to believe this is the second complete melt out in less than a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Knockout punch… torrential heavy rain. Love when the Spine east of BTV maximizes snowfall, but hate when the local mountains maximize the rainfall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 9:30pm has flakes up high. The front is through. Wet and windy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 It’s pouring and the wind is insane. May be down to no pack at all tomorrow. Earliest I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share Posted March 8, 2022 Brutal stretch for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share Posted March 8, 2022 Power just went out here. This POS has way over stayed its welcome now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcglups Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 At sugarloaf and definitely strong winds last night and now ramping up more so. Lots of wetness as well. Completely opposite of why I planned this trip, but grateful that any action packed weather is good stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klw Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 0.7 overnight, fresh coating on everything, pack intact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot21 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Downpour last night around 8 I think. Power went out around 1:30am and it was snowing and windy. Got about 6" left on the ground. Sides of the dirt road were washed out last night from the rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share Posted March 8, 2022 Decent snow showers today. Would be nice to have them falling on a 30" pack instead of slush puddles, but whatever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NW_of_GYX Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 I'm about ready to close the shades on this season but this weekend might rope me back in. Good (ish) trends from 0z to 12z. Looks really good for the VT crew. My area is going to be the battleground. Ensembles were spread way out at 0z but (grasping at straws) the 12z GEFS has a little cluster to the S. Hopefully that shows up on the 12z EPS. The ski areas from SVT up into the Mahoosucs look to grab a much needed, high QPF paste bomb while I enjoy 3" of slop. Hell of way to run a "winter month" in southern Maine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Spin Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Event totals: 0.1” Snow/0.31” L.E. Precipitation from this current system started up yesterday evening, and there was a loud downpour at some point, although I don’t recall the exact time. The precipitation had changed over to snow late last night, but I only found a fluffy tenth of an inch on the boards at observations time. Snow had just picked up at that point however, with a bit more accumulation that I’ll put into the next round of observations. Details from the 6:00 A.M. Waterbury observations: New Snow: 0.1 inches New Liquid: Trace Temperature: 27.3 F Sky: Light Snow (5-15 mm flakes) Snow at the stake: 8.0 inches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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