NNE Cold Season Thread 2021/2022

[J.Spin]

15 hours ago, alex said:

I have to say, it’s amazing how icy the ski trails are in spite of all that powder. Love everything about Stowe but it’s about there with Cannon for ice, it seems!

 

14 hours ago, powderfreak said:

It’s about knowing where to go, too. Use trails to get to woods. I don't know if it's the wide open, steeper pitches exposed to wind or what but there are definitely hills where trails seem firmer than others.  If it requires winch grooming there’s a lot of skidding skiers and snow pushed downhill.

This is a different experience for sure than 2pm on Nosedive when the upper turns are blue ice.

Mt. Mansfield indeed gets incredible snowfall and has amazing terrain, but the resort suffers from a number of factors that come together to degrade many of the on piste surfaces:

·         Steep pitches

·         Significant areas of manmade snow

·         High speed lifts

·         Heavy skier traffic

·         Notable population of strong, aggressive skiers

 

For many years we skied Bolton on Saturdays and then Stowe on Sundays with our boy’s ski program, and on many weekend the difference in snow quality on the typical on piste routes was not quite night and day, but sometimes close to that.

There was a fairly recent thaw, and we haven’t had a resurfacing storm, which is not at all uncommon in the Northeast in the winter.  PF’s quote above of “Use trails to get to woods” is what most advanced/expert skiers are going to be doing.

My recommendations for an improved ski experience at Stowe without the ice would be:

·         Don’t ski any trails with manmade snow.

·         Don’t go near the main traffic routes like the Lord/North Slope route, Lift Line, or Nosedive areas off the quad, or most of the Side Street area on Spruce.  These main routes, with manmade snow and Stowe’s incredibly high lift capacity, are recipes for disaster.

·         Don’t ski any on piste areas with black pitch or higher, but practically speaking, don’t ski any on piste areas with even blue pitch or higher depending on how the combination of recent skier traffic vs. snowfall has played out.

·         Ski areas like the Toll House pod, Sunrise Glades, Birch Glades, Chapel Woods, Tyro, Lower Tyro, Lower Standard, Lower Gulch, etc.  If you look at the Stowe trail map, this is essentially everything to the map’s left (i.e. skier’s right) of Tyro/Lower Standard/Lower Gulch.  With Stowe’s mountain layout, those are really just about the only areas on the mountain that have an appropriate combination of pitch, levels of skier traffic, and natural snow that will preserve the snow surfaces.  There are other areas of the resort that fit that bill, but with the off piste included, that area has hundreds of acres to ski with a combination of snow, pitch, and skier traffic that is hard to beat anywhere at the resort.  I have spent many, many days, skiing exclusive that part of the resort when conditions elsewhere were poor.  The Meadows part of Spruce can sometimes be OK because of its pitch, but it still suffers from manmade snow and skier traffic, so you have to check to see what state it’s in.

·         As much as your knowledge and abilities allow, do not ski on piste.  On piste conditions are poor because of high levels of skier traffic and manmade snow.  So go with exactly what PF says and simply use the trails to get to the woods.

[PhineasC]

Might not be much choice but to ski on the groomers by the time to smoke clears on Wednesday.

12z NAM is pretty hideous.

[powderfreak]

2 hours ago, PhineasC said:

Might not be much choice but to ski on the groomers by the time to smoke clears on Wednesday.

12z NAM is pretty hideous.

These folks are ready.  Skis and boat.

[#NoPoles]

Yeah, this next round of rain should wipe out any natural snow at 302 level. I live right across from the ski area and have such an amazing view from my house. After the last round of rain storms, bare patched showed up on the ski trails, especially West Mtn. The snow mobile trails were also completely bare. We got around 8 inches of fluff this past week that covered the brown patches, but natural snow cover is so thin. So this next round of warm temps and rain is going to put the nail in the coffin on the snowmobiling, and any natural snow trails at the ski area

[powderfreak]

Yeah looking more like wet on Monday.

[CoastalWx]

10 hours ago, J.Spin said:

 

Mt. Mansfield indeed gets incredible snowfall and has amazing terrain, but the resort suffers from a number of factors that come together to degrade many of the on piste surfaces:

·         Steep pitches

·         Significant areas of manmade snow

·         High speed lifts

·         Heavy skier traffic

·         Notable population of strong, aggressive skiers

 

For many years we skied Bolton on Saturdays and then Stowe on Sundays with our boy’s ski program, and on many weekend the difference in snow quality on the typical on piste routes was not quite night and day, but sometimes close to that.

There was a fairly recent thaw, and we haven’t had a resurfacing storm, which is not at all uncommon in the Northeast in the winter.  PF’s quote above of “Use trails to get to woods” is what most advanced/expert skiers are going to be doing.

My recommendations for an improved ski experience at Stowe without the ice would be:

·         Don’t ski any trails with manmade snow.

·         Don’t go near the main traffic routes like the Lord/North Slope route, Lift Line, or Nosedive areas off the quad, or most of the Side Street area on Spruce.  These main routes, with manmade snow and Stowe’s incredibly high lift capacity, are recipes for disaster.

·         Don’t ski any on piste areas with black pitch or higher, but practically speaking, don’t ski any on piste areas with even blue pitch or higher depending on how the combination of recent skier traffic vs. snowfall has played out.

·         Ski areas like the Toll House pod, Sunrise Glades, Birch Glades, Chapel Woods, Tyro, Lower Tyro, Lower Standard, Lower Gulch, etc.  If you look at the Stowe trail map, this is essentially everything to the map’s left (i.e. skier’s right) of Tyro/Lower Standard/Lower Gulch.  With Stowe’s mountain layout, those are really just about the only areas on the mountain that have an appropriate combination of pitch, levels of skier traffic, and natural snow that will preserve the snow surfaces.  There are other areas of the resort that fit that bill, but with the off piste included, that area has hundreds of acres to ski with a combination of snow, pitch, and skier traffic that is hard to beat anywhere at the resort.  I have spent many, many days, skiing exclusive that part of the resort when conditions elsewhere were poor.  The Meadows part of Spruce can sometimes be OK because of its pitch, but it still suffers from manmade snow and skier traffic, so you have to check to see what state it’s in.

·         As much as your knowledge and abilities allow, do not ski on piste.  On piste conditions are poor because of high levels of skier traffic and manmade snow.  So go with exactly what PF says and simply use the trails to get to the woods.

It’s probably too late this year, but what mtn would you recommend to take kids who haven’t learned to ski yet? I’m referring to your area specifically. 

[PhineasC]

23 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

It’s probably too late this year, but what mtn would you recommend to take kids who haven’t learned to ski yet? I’m referring to your area specifically. 

DJ’s tramline at cannon is good for beginners. 

[Angus]

Hiked the Hancock Loop today off the Kancamagus today. The entire length of ridge between north (`4,400') and south (`4,300') Hancock is above 4K. The snow depths are really low even at these elevations but as @#NoPolessaid, the foot of fluff that fell this week made things very picturesque and the weather was spectacular. 

[powderfreak]

56 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

It’s probably too late this year, but what mtn would you recommend to take kids who haven’t learned to ski yet? I’m referring to your area specifically. 

Bolton Valley.  100%.  Or even Cochran’s to be honest.

[SJonesWX]

1 hour ago, CoastalWx said:

It’s probably too late this year, but what mtn would you recommend to take kids who haven’t learned to ski yet? I’m referring to your area specifically. 

not Vermont, but Pats Peak in Nh is a solid place for kids to learn, and you won’t break the bank there. only trouble is that it’s not a resort-type setting 

[Angus]

1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

Bolton Valley.  100%.  Or even Cochran’s to be honest.

Cochran's website says they aren't doing rentals this season.

[CoastalWx]

36 minutes ago, SJonesWX said:

not Vermont, but Pats Peak in Nh is a solid place for kids to learn, and you won’t break the bank there. only trouble is that it’s not a resort-type setting 

Yeah I heard that too. We have family in Waterbury VT, so if we went there, was looking to take kids to learn how to ski. 

[bwt3650]

2 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

It’s probably too late this year, but what mtn would you recommend to take kids who haven’t learned to ski yet? I’m referring to your area specifically. 

You would think I’d say jay, but honestly, I’ve heard great things about the kids programs at smuggs and they do have basically a whole mountain (Morse) dedicated to beginners.  I would look to a non epic/ikon with less traffic.

 Also, I think late season is a great time for kids to learn..less traffic, no frigid  northern greens weather and soft snow.  Don’t have to spend an hour layering them up either only to hear “dad I’m hot” before you walk out the door into sun zero temps.  

[bwt3650]

2 hours ago, PhineasC said:

DJ’s tramline at cannon is good for beginners. 

Or those with solid medical benefits.  Has that been open this year?

[PhineasC]

3 minutes ago, bwt3650 said:

Or those with solid medical benefits.  Has that been open this year?

Not sure, I haven't been over to Cannon much this season. Been at Wildcat when not at BW. I would imagine it hasn't been open much given the way the winter is going. Maybe for a week or so late Jan.

[alex]

22 hours ago, J.Spin said:

 

Mt. Mansfield indeed gets incredible snowfall and has amazing terrain, but the resort suffers from a number of factors that come together to degrade many of the on piste surfaces:

·         Steep pitches

·         Significant areas of manmade snow

·         High speed lifts

·         Heavy skier traffic

·         Notable population of strong, aggressive skiers

 

For many years we skied Bolton on Saturdays and then Stowe on Sundays with our boy’s ski program, and on many weekend the difference in snow quality on the typical on piste routes was not quite night and day, but sometimes close to that.

There was a fairly recent thaw, and we haven’t had a resurfacing storm, which is not at all uncommon in the Northeast in the winter.  PF’s quote above of “Use trails to get to woods” is what most advanced/expert skiers are going to be doing.

My recommendations for an improved ski experience at Stowe without the ice would be:

·         Don’t ski any trails with manmade snow.

·         Don’t go near the main traffic routes like the Lord/North Slope route, Lift Line, or Nosedive areas off the quad, or most of the Side Street area on Spruce.  These main routes, with manmade snow and Stowe’s incredibly high lift capacity, are recipes for disaster.

·         Don’t ski any on piste areas with black pitch or higher, but practically speaking, don’t ski any on piste areas with even blue pitch or higher depending on how the combination of recent skier traffic vs. snowfall has played out.

·         Ski areas like the Toll House pod, Sunrise Glades, Birch Glades, Chapel Woods, Tyro, Lower Tyro, Lower Standard, Lower Gulch, etc.  If you look at the Stowe trail map, this is essentially everything to the map’s left (i.e. skier’s right) of Tyro/Lower Standard/Lower Gulch.  With Stowe’s mountain layout, those are really just about the only areas on the mountain that have an appropriate combination of pitch, levels of skier traffic, and natural snow that will preserve the snow surfaces.  There are other areas of the resort that fit that bill, but with the off piste included, that area has hundreds of acres to ski with a combination of snow, pitch, and skier traffic that is hard to beat anywhere at the resort.  I have spent many, many days, skiing exclusive that part of the resort when conditions elsewhere were poor.  The Meadows part of Spruce can sometimes be OK because of its pitch, but it still suffers from manmade snow and skier traffic, so you have to check to see what state it’s in.

·         As much as your knowledge and abilities allow, do not ski on piste.  On piste conditions are poor because of high levels of skier traffic and manmade snow.  So go with exactly what PF says and simply use the trails to get to the woods.

Awesome write up. We did do the Sunrise/Birch glades several times and they were great! Spruce Peak also generally was in better shape than Mansfield, probably due to less traffic? 
 

Bolton is on my bucket list, will probably try that last year. We have options to stay at the Lodge at Spruce Peak almost for free through a home exchange program so it’s nice and convenient but it’s fun to try different places! We are very lucky to have so much variety within short driving distance. I mean, Stowe would even be an easy day trip if we wanted, less than 2 hours drive

[CoastalWx]

Congrats on the marginal risk.

[CoastalWx]

12 hours ago, powderfreak said:

Bolton Valley.  100%.  Or even Cochran’s to be honest.

That’s the mountain Jspin goes to a lot I think? 
Thanks everyone for the recommendations. 

[tamarack]

13 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

It’s probably too late this year, but what mtn would you recommend to take kids who haven’t learned to ski yet? I’m referring to your area specifically. 

Never too late.  My experience may not be applicable because I'd just turned 24 in March of 1970, but my first ski area visit (NNJ's Great Gorge) was late that month, at night.  Staff had to keep bringing snow to the unload area so skiers could reach the trail without walking on dirt, and the trail was noisy manmade though soft enough to turn.  Took a lesson (More edge!) and skied all evening.  Then we had 11" of powder on 3/29, Easter Sunday, and I went up the next evening to a totally different scene - and was hooked.  Bought equipment that spring then an under-the-lights season pass at GG in the fall.

[mreaves]

58 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

That’s the mountain Jspin goes to a lot I think? 
Thanks everyone for the recommendations. 

Yes, he goes to Bolton a lot. It’s located between Waterbury and Burlington. It has the only night skiing of note in the state. Lots of school programs go to Bolton. 

[powderfreak]

1 hour ago, CoastalWx said:

That’s the mountain Jspin goes to a lot I think? 
Thanks everyone for the recommendations. 

It's just a mellower vibe for kids, the terrain is great for learning.  As we discussed the groomer conditions are often much better without the big wide open exposed/steeper trails that get scoured and heavier traffic.    

[PhineasC]

Mod rain at 30 degrees. 

[powderfreak]

A quick 0.40” in the Stratus rain gauge outside Mtn Ops this morning in the mid-30s.

[PhineasC]

This isn’t a pack murderer here… yet. I’m sure that will change soon. Still raining at 30. Roads are slick. 

[powderfreak]

Satellite has a wide area of hot sunshine moving through NY and heading this way this afternoon.

If the sun comes out the temps are going to skyrocket.

[wxeyeNH]

Moderate freezing rain showers have ended.  Temp up to 33.8F  Breaks just to the west.  Temps should skyrocket now.   How much of my 6" pack can I melt?  Much is not glaciated and water logged from this AM so it should go quickly

[bobbutts]

14 hours ago, bwt3650 said:

Or those with solid medical benefits.  Has that been open this year?

I've seen it open before but never once in a condition I'd attempt it in.  Reminds me of the terrain out west that requires triple digit snowpack to open only they never get that kind of pack at cannon.

[qg_omega]

On 3/5/2022 at 8:46 AM, J.Spin said:

 

Mt. Mansfield indeed gets incredible snowfall and has amazing terrain, but the resort suffers from a number of factors that come together to degrade many of the on piste surfaces:

·         Steep pitches

·         Significant areas of manmade snow

·         High speed lifts

·         Heavy skier traffic

·         Notable population of strong, aggressive skiers

 

For many years we skied Bolton on Saturdays and then Stowe on Sundays with our boy’s ski program, and on many weekend the difference in snow quality on the typical on piste routes was not quite night and day, but sometimes close to that.

There was a fairly recent thaw, and we haven’t had a resurfacing storm, which is not at all uncommon in the Northeast in the winter.  PF’s quote above of “Use trails to get to woods” is what most advanced/expert skiers are going to be doing.

My recommendations for an improved ski experience at Stowe without the ice would be:

·         Don’t ski any trails with manmade snow.

·         Don’t go near the main traffic routes like the Lord/North Slope route, Lift Line, or Nosedive areas off the quad, or most of the Side Street area on Spruce.  These main routes, with manmade snow and Stowe’s incredibly high lift capacity, are recipes for disaster.

·         Don’t ski any on piste areas with black pitch or higher, but practically speaking, don’t ski any on piste areas with even blue pitch or higher depending on how the combination of recent skier traffic vs. snowfall has played out.

·         Ski areas like the Toll House pod, Sunrise Glades, Birch Glades, Chapel Woods, Tyro, Lower Tyro, Lower Standard, Lower Gulch, etc.  If you look at the Stowe trail map, this is essentially everything to the map’s left (i.e. skier’s right) of Tyro/Lower Standard/Lower Gulch.  With Stowe’s mountain layout, those are really just about the only areas on the mountain that have an appropriate combination of pitch, levels of skier traffic, and natural snow that will preserve the snow surfaces.  There are other areas of the resort that fit that bill, but with the off piste included, that area has hundreds of acres to ski with a combination of snow, pitch, and skier traffic that is hard to beat anywhere at the resort.  I have spent many, many days, skiing exclusive that part of the resort when conditions elsewhere were poor.  The Meadows part of Spruce can sometimes be OK because of its pitch, but it still suffers from manmade snow and skier traffic, so you have to check to see what state it’s in.

·         As much as your knowledge and abilities allow, do not ski on piste.  On piste conditions are poor because of high levels of skier traffic and manmade snow.  So go with exactly what PF says and simply use the trails to get to the woods.

All of this is pretty absurd, 99 percent of skiers aren’t skiing natural in the woods

[PhineasC]

Fingers crossed that's number 5.

[J.Spin]

1 hour ago, qg_omega said:

All of this is pretty absurd, 99 percent of skiers aren’t skiing natural in the woods

(shrug) I’m not sure what to tell you, aside from the fact that you must not ski around here in NVT a lot?  Alex literally just wrote that they skied Sunrise/Birch glades several times and they were great, so they’re either part of that miniscule 1%, or your numbers are off.