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2021-22 Winter Discussion


Hoosier
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3 hours ago, StormfanaticInd said:

Would really love snow for the holidays. It's been a while 

We had a nice one last year, about 3 inches Christmas Eve into Christmas Day. Snow showers all day as well. Pretty nice. That pretty much guarantees us here in central Ohio see no snow for Christmas over the next 20 or so years! LOL

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On 10/19/2021 at 3:01 PM, Stebo said:

Honestly I think too many are latching onto the 2nd Nina year as being the main driver of the pattern when we really haven't had many to begin with and the 2 moderate 2nd year Nina we have had were polar opposite, meaning there isn't much value there.

Just when you think you've got ENSO figured out, climate change comes along and throws a wrench into the cogs. 

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13 minutes ago, IWXwx said:

Just when you think you've got ENSO figured out, climate change comes along and throws a wrench into the cogs. 

There are way too many ripples in the system to put any faith in analogs. 

It could be a +5 winter or -5.

 

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3 hours ago, IWXwx said:

Just when you think you've got ENSO figured out, climate change comes along and throws a wrench into the cogs. 

Also true, it could literally be anything. Look at last February, who saw crippling cold that deep into the south. If someone says they did, I want the mega million numbers too.

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On 10/19/2021 at 3:01 PM, Stebo said:

Honestly I think too many are latching onto the 2nd Nina year as being the main driver of the pattern when we really haven't had many to begin with and the 2 moderate 2nd year Nina we have had were polar opposite, meaning there isn't much value there.

This.

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7 hours ago, Jonger said:

There are way too many ripples in the system to put any faith in analogs. 

It could be a +5 winter or -5.

 

It's true. Nothing plays by the rules any more. 2007-08 analog gives a warm fuzzy, but who really knows. 2017-18 also had a hot October and turned into a pretty good winter for some. It certainly featured one of the colder and snowier holiday weeks in many moons.

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30 minutes ago, IWXwx said:

After I posted those CPC forecast maps yesterday, I thought they looked familiar. On the left is this year's predictions and last year's is on the right. Cut and paste?

CPC Forecast Comparison 2021-2022.jpg

ENSO factors in very heavily to their outlooks.  I also heard directly from Dr. Uccellini at one of the conferences that long term warming factors into the outlooks, which is why you typically won't see a ton of blues on the seasonal outlooks.  This is even more true once you get out to the 6-12 month outlooks.  You'll basically never see any blue anywhere on those.

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6 hours ago, Stebo said:

How often do we even get warm and dry in the winter? I'd say that probably the least likely scenario in the winter.

 

3 hours ago, A-L-E-K said:

2001/2002 is the WAD winter here but year WAW seems like the right call

would be nice to break the regional drought and keep the lakes full

Put these lists below together based off of +/-3F from average temps and +/-2" from average precip for DJF.

 

Significantly warm/dry winters are very rare... Where as significantly warm/wet, cold/dry and cold/wet are a bit more common.

 

Warm/Dry Winters
2001-2: 32.5F & 3.15" (Neutral)
1930-31: 32.4F & 1.60"

Warm/Wet Winters
1982-83: 30.9F & 11.48" (Strong El Nino)
1959-60: 29.9.F & 8.89"
1907-08: 29.4F & 8.50"
1879-80: 35.2F & 8.91"
1875-76: 33.6F & 9.47"
1873-74: 30.2F & 9.42"

Cold/Dry Winters
2014-15: 23.0F & 3.65" (Moderate El Nino)
1976-77: 19.0F & 2.30" (Moderate El Nino)
1962-63: 19.2F & 1.85" (Neutral)
1944-45: 23.3F & 3.08:
1919-20: 22.0F & 1.94"
1898-99: 21.7F & 3.29"
1874-75: 21.2F & 3.58"
1872-73: 20.5F & 3.25"

Cold/Wet Winters
2008-09: 22.4F & 10.32" (Moderate La Nina)*2nd Year
1984-85: 21.9F & 7.86" (Moderate La Nina)*2nd Year
1917-18: 21.0F & 7.81"
1886-87: 22.5F & 9.99"
1884-85: 22.2F & 9.40"
1882-83: 21.9F & 8.47"

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Thanks for putting the lists together. Based on your 2nd year Nina analogs, rooting for winter 21/22 to be another winter of the crow. Caw, caw.


Cold/Wet Winters
2008-09: 22.4F & 10.32" (Moderate La Nina)*2nd Year
1984-85: 21.9F & 7.86" (Moderate La Nina)*2nd Year
1917-18: 21.0F & 7.81"
1886-87: 22.5F & 9.99"
1884-85: 22.2F & 9.40"
1882-83: 21.9F & 8.47"
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