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Fall 2021 Thread (September, October, November)


Carvers Gap
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Sell natural gas! Not investment advice. I'm just tired of the ECWMF weeklies choking. And don't sell natty in the face of this upward momentum. At least not today.
However the weeklies might have MJO support. Both the EC and GFS weeklies have the cooler look. Legacy CFS goes warm. Let's see which works out. Check back in two weeks. 
image.thumb.png.3c43d5444f95c305142b696cce6e12bd.png
Please do not share the image outside of our Region.

344763f7d68f4cca504b5b7527e12c8e.jpg


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Anyway John is right about November correlation to winter. October is worthless. November tends to correlate with the balance of winter, Dec-Feb. Not every year, but over the years November and bal-winter have a decent correlation coefficient. March always does what March wants to do, haha!

Deterministic models, Ensembles, and Weeklies all seem to want to start November cold. That's only the first week or two, and not the whole month. However it's baby steps if one is eyeing the November and balance of winter correlation.

GFS wants to get mild by mid-Nov. GOA low yuck. Euro is still cool-ish. Canadian wants to reload cold, with another ridge poking into western Canada. MJO could favor the Euro in between solution.

Champions Classic is in November. This year with have two versions. College basketball, and the three weather models. Check back in two weeks!

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Interesting chatter now about a Yukon Ridge. They are actually quite rare in late October and early November. Alaska or West Coast are more common. Over history Yukon ridges are rare this exact time of year, but have been particularly stubborn once set up. Models break it down around Day 15 but then some hint at a rebuild 16-20 day. That 5-day composite is still warm, but details lurk.

Do we tee up a cold November? Then do we leverage that correlation into the rest of winter? I'm not sold. La Nina is notoriously variable. On the bullish side though, perhaps the warm interlude is brief in a cold Novie. Image was posted a few days ago, so it's not the current 11-15 day. However the argument remains valid. Plus that falling -QBO. Please do not share the image outside our Region. 

removalproblem.png

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A little food for thought. 

    With most forecasters going for a mild Winter in the Eastern US based mainly on La nina and a neg. PDO ,  I thought i'd bring up a historical event that occurred during a similar setup. 

The "Great Appalachian Storm" of November 1950.

   https://www.weather.gov/jkl/appalachianstorm1950

   There's many articles on it. Just google. Very interesting !

   Of course, nothing of that magnitude in this climate era is bordering impossible, when you consider the time of year and the extreme cold associated.

     However, it does show the possibility of a cold/snowy pattern in the Eastern States during a La nina/-Pdo Winter. The rest of that Winter averaged basically normal with the Nashville area receiving a major Ice/Snowstorm in January.

 

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Well that was an epic Euro run for Thursday night into Friday. Low pressure works south of the area and up into the Carolinas with heavy wet slop behind it, nails the Plateau/SE Ky. The Euro phases the southern stream and northern stream and really wraps in some cold air. No phase on the GFS. Early season model battle.

sn10_acc.us_ov.png

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I swear John, I was just thinking yesterday, that we were in that window where it seems like this version of the Euro likes to wrap up a piece of energy dump some snow on someone, lol. 

 

Here is the evolution of the storm to go alongside John's map above:

giphy.gif?cid=790b7611ab7cd9d27aa32eefb6

 

giphy.gif?cid=790b7611217a3d0d07bba6926f

 

Here is the EPS (I'll just put Jacksboro up as the high end of the EPS til we get closer):

fP1l1CW.png

 

 

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The Euro backed off that bonkers run from last night but still has accumulating snow on the Plateau and mountains. More in the 2-3 inch range rather than 3-6 inches.  The Canadian also shows an inch or two along the same areas. MRX has introduced a chance of rain or snow showers here for next Friday. Says rain with a low of 32 Thursday night, rain and show showers Friday with a high of 43.  

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Need the MJO to stay out of the Maritime,don't look like it will happen.Euro has been to strong with it last week into Africa,probably constructive interference from a KW.I wouldn't be surprised if the Euro comes out of the COD the next few days and shows it stronger into the IO,seems to be what the CFS has been showing

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25 minutes ago, jaxjagman said:

Need the MJO to stay out of the Maritime,don't look like it will happen.Euro has been to strong with it last week into Africa,probably constructive interference from a KW.I wouldn't be surprised if the Euro comes out of the COD the next few days and shows it stronger into the IO,seems to be what the CFS has been showing

Jaxjagman, do we want the mjo to not stay in MC long at all for a cold pattern to develop later on? I forgot how the mjo works for the fall as compared to winter

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European weeklies shift cooler second half of November. Normal instead of warmer, more in line with CFS. MJO would support. Also if ridging gets stuck in the Yukon, vs AK or West Coast. In the South we just hang onto Day 15.

I've no thoughts on Friday. Actually I do but in kindergarten they said if you don't have anything nice to say...

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Man, it feels like winter out there.  And the ensembles do not look warm after d10.  Monster ridge going up right along the West Coast.  Give it a few more runs, and I might be read to say that winter is about to begin north of I40 during the second half of November.  Now, that doesn't mean snow necessarily, but it does mean we are about to flip cold.  

@Blue Moon, were you in this area for a time?

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We might be able to get that to work courtesy of the ABNA however the wavelength is a little squirrelly like you note. 

This is the European weekly composite of weeks 5-6. Historically those weeks offer zero forecast value but it's fun to look! It's not far from the coldest group of historical years. Again, just garbage. Should I move this to banter? There is the China tie-in so will put it here. 

image.png.dadf6309245a08c86f45787e75c2d5b7.png

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3 hours ago, nrgjeff said:

We might be able to get that to work courtesy of the ABNA however the wavelength is a little squirrelly like you note. 

This is the European weekly composite of weeks 5-6. Historically those weeks offer zero forecast value but it's fun to look! It's not far from the coldest group of historical years. Again, just garbage. Should I move this to banter? There is the China tie-in so will put it here. 

image.png.dadf6309245a08c86f45787e75c2d5b7.png

Hi Jeff. My concern is if we dont get cold with shorter wavelengths, it may be tougher to get cold with longer wavelengths in winter. Is that a possibility or what do you think?

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