bluewave Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 This area is now at the northern edge of the cfa humid subtropical climate zone. It has been shifting north with each 10 year update. This climate zone covers a large portion of the Eastern US. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian5671 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Jeff Grann said: I'll just redefine the shoreline of the East Coast a desert. What the hell. ..The beaches are full of sand. There is nothing tropical, subtropical of any sort when you take our yearly average high/low temperature as the standard for our climate people think of the word "tropical" as palm trees and sand. Doesn't really mean that when you're talking about climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Grann Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Jeff Grann said: I'll just redefine the shoreline of the East Coast a desert. What the hell. ..The beaches are full of sand. There is nothing tropical, subtropical of any sort when you take our yearly average high/low temperature as the standard for our climate Tropical: San Juan PR. Every month averages between 83-88/ 73-78 Sub Tropical: Ft.Myers 72-90/ 57-77 New York City 39-85/ 26-69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Grann Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, bluewave said: This area is now at the northern edge of the cfa humid subtropical climate zone. It has been shifting north with each 10 year update. This climate zone covers a large portion of the Eastern US. It is not humid here from October through April and usually May. I am not arguing summer humidity comparisons but clearly, tropical and subtropical climates have narrow ranges in temperatures between winter and Summer. We do not.Nobody walks outside when wind chills are -10 and believes we live in any sort of climate description containing the word tropical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Grann Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Brian5671 said: people think of the word "tropical" as palm trees and sand. Doesn't really mean that when you're talking about climate. Ok. So we will lump the Equator to NYC as tropical/subtropical and North of there to the Pole as Arctic or sub Arctic. Sounds simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Latest HREF: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Grann Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Jeff Grann said: Ok. So we will lump the Equator to NYC as tropical/subtropical and North of there to the Pole as Arctic or sub Arctic. Sounds simple I would even reluctantly accept the logic that the subtropics begin South of the line where most everything isn't dormant or dead during Winter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinRP37 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Jeff Grann said: No. I gave you the dictionary definition of subtropical. We are not a region adjacent to the tropics. Unless you refine 1200 miles as adjacent. As an ecologist your 'textbook' definition is not what the Koppen system uses. You are also being a little too narrow in your definition of adjacent. What is the immediate climate to our south if not subtropical? North Carolina most definitely has a subtropical climate, yet they are still hundreds of miles from the true 'tropics'. Also, ocean modify climate in a huge way. If you drive directly west of NYC, would you not think the weather is far different? This time of year, you can board a train in GCT and head to the closer northern suburbs and also experience a completely different temperature. When we say NYC is subtropical, we do not mean all the way up to Albany. The next northern climate definition is humid continental climate. The temperature definition for humid continental climate is the coldest month MUST average between 32F and 26.6F. Manhattan DOES NOT experience this on a regular basis anymore. A humid subtropical climate "A humid subtropical climate is a zone of climate characterized by hot and humid summers, and cool to mild winters. These climates normally lie on the southeast side of all continents, generally between latitudes 25° and 40° (sometimes 46°) and are located poleward from adjacent tropical climates." NOTE NYC IS AT 40.7° N. Parts of Europe are even further north and are subtropical. If you don't like the term subtropical, you can call it warm temperate. The coldest month in a humid subtropical climate can still average between 32F and 27F, but the warmest month must average 72F or higher. NYC has had this in every summer in recent history. If you feel that science is not right, you can research the issue and publish your findings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinRP37 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Jeff Grann said: I would even reluctantly accept the logic that the subtropics begin South of the line where most everything isn't dormant or dead during Winter. This is a very poor definition to go by because even in our hottest climates, plants will go dormant during the dry season. Cold temperature is not the only thing that forces biological life into dormancy, dry seasons do too as do the hot seasons. Take a look at the list of climates on wikipedia and see which one matches up with NYC "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Köppen_climate_classification" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Another 80° at Newark today brings the annual count to 110 days. Time Series Summary for NEWARK LIBERTY INTL AP, NJ - Jan through DecClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Rank Year Number of Days Max Temperature >= 80 Missing Count 1 2015 118 0 2 1994 114 0 3 2016 113 0 - 1993 113 0 - 1991 113 0 4 2011 111 0 - 2010 111 0 5 2021 110 99 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselbug Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Jeff Grann said: Tropical: San Juan PR. Every month averages between 83-88/ 73-78 Sub Tropical: Ft.Myers 72-90/ 57-77 New York City 39-85/ 26-69 You skipped the Florida keys! Places like Key West, Marathon etc. are purely tropical. Meanwhile it's 80/70 here, still some peeks of sun with the front just to the west. Front looks to be crawling eastward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qg_omega Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 On 9/22/2021 at 7:50 AM, bluewave said: This is such a warm pattern, that even a late September cold front won’t have much cold air behind it. Looks chilly today behind it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Newark reached 80 degrees for the 110th day this year. That is the 8th highest number of days in record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Grann Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 26 minutes ago, dieselbug said: You skipped the Florida keys! Places like Key West, Marathon etc. are purely tropical. Meanwhile it's 80/70 here, still some peeks of sun with the front just to the west. Front looks to be crawling eastward. Didn't easily find climate data for those small locations. That's why I chose San Juan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Grann Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 37 minutes ago, JustinRP37 said: This is a very poor definition to go by because even in our hottest climates, plants will go dormant during the dry season. Cold temperature is not the only thing that forces biological life into dormancy, dry seasons do too as do the hot seasons. Take a look at the list of climates on wikipedia and see which one matches up with NYC "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Köppen_climate_classification" Nothing went dormant in SW Florida that I noticed in Winter besides the bugs. Things may have grown a bit slower but all my tropical trees and plants were still vibrant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkyfork Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Jeff Grann said: I lived on Sanibel for 3 years. Worked with boat captains and Meteorologists. Being from NY I was fascinated by the different weather down there. It was made clear to me that Florida had a Subtropical climate from just below the Tampa Bay area . North of there was not due to the continental influence on the weather. I saw the difference especially in overnight lows . As far as the 70's, I still have the Time Magazine that was devoted to ”The next ice age cometh"?. It was very clear how NOAA and the scientific community we're leaning back then. https://slate.com/technology/2014/12/1975-newsweek-article-on-global-cooling-how-climate-change-deniers-use-my-old-piece.html In the 39 years since, biotechnology has flowered from a promising academic topic to a major global industry, the first test-tube baby has been born and become a mother herself, cosmologists have learned that the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate rather than slowing down, and particle physicists have detected the Higgs boson, an entity once regarded as only a theoretical concept. Seven presidents have served most of 11 terms. And Newsweek has become a shadow of its former self. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinRP37 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 29 minutes ago, Jeff Grann said: Nothing went dormant in SW Florida that I noticed in Winter besides the bugs. Things may have grown a bit slower but all my tropical trees and plants were still vibrant Thats because Florida is on the southern side of the subtropical range and is humid. Florida is one of my favorite places. I know the ecology down there quite well. Go inland a bit and when things get dry you will see brief periods of dormancy, however it is much rarer in Florida. Go to Phoenix and see the amazing difference between the dry season and the monsoon season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee59 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Tropical storm Sam has formed. This actually looks like a tropical system, not like some of the wimpy storms preceding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee59 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 There is no doubt our climate is becoming more mild and wet. Some areas of the world are becoming more dry. However because the earth is always getting cooler or warmer, I suppose we are better off overall to become warmer. The problem with this warm up is humans may be accelerating the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 The one comparison that holds between NYC and Miami is the JAS rainfall in 2021 and 2011 is closer to the South Florida average. Monthly Total Precipitation for NY CITY CENTRAL PARK, NYClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Year Jul Aug Sep Season 2011 3.03 18.95 9.39 31.37 2021 11.09 10.32 7.73 29.14 Monthly Total Precipitation for Miami Area, FL (ThreadEx)Click column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Year Jul Aug Sep Season Mean 8.70 10.06 9.15 27.91 2021 8.18 7.29 7.14 22.61 2020 10.26 7.44 10.92 28.62 2019 10.54 15.74 3.25 29.53 2018 8.02 9.58 7.89 25.49 2017 12.45 8.57 14.97 35.99 2016 4.11 13.77 6.05 23.93 2015 5.91 9.02 9.97 24.90 2014 10.29 9.07 7.25 26.61 2013 12.70 4.43 10.47 27.60 2012 8.92 15.92 11.03 35.87 2011 5.71 11.08 4.99 21.78 2010 7.36 8.75 15.89 32.00 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkyfork Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 minute ago, lee59 said: There is no doubt our climate is becoming more mild and wet. Some areas of the world are becoming more dry. However because the earth is always getting cooler or warmer, I suppose we are better off overall to become warmer. The problem with this warm up is humans may be accelerating the process. welcome to 1988 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee59 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, forkyfork said: welcome to 1988 I only wish. We could at least eliminate some of present day hyping of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Big shift west with Sam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkyfork Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 32 minutes ago, lee59 said: I only wish. We could at least eliminate some of present day hyping of everything. cold weather is becoming more infrequent with time and you don't like being reminded 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee59 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, forkyfork said: cold weather is becoming more infrequent with time and you don't like being reminded I agree with both your statements. However about being reminded, it really doesn't bother me that much, facts are facts. I do have confidence though in the human race, that we will get rid of much of what we contribute to greenhouse gases long before doomsday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEITH L.I Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Front passed in Central PA..62 degrees and sun..Yes it is Fall!!.Have to wear a jacket..beautiful! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee59 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 24 minutes ago, forkyfork said: cold weather is becoming more infrequent with time and you don't like being reminded I grew up before 1988. When I was young I really wanted cold Winters, now not so much. I do believe however that today's weather is more interesting than it was when I grew up. We get bigger snowstorms and unusual summer weather. When the weather was less mild and dryer, there just wasn't as much activity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian5671 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 minute ago, lee59 said: I grew up before 1988. When I was young I really wanted cold Winters, now not so much. I do believe however that today's weather is more interesting than it was when I grew up. We get bigger snowstorms and unusual summer weather. When the weather was less mild and dryer, there just wasn't as much activity. yep don't need brutal cold for snow-look at last winter for example 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psv88 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Subtropical day here…80/73…on September 23 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian5671 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, psv88 said: Subtropical day here…80/73…on September 23 true-clouds even look like the ones you see in the Carribean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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