The 2021-2022 Ski season thread

[Baroclinic Zone]

Can't deny that living in a ski town or the sport itself have become mostly for the wealthy.  I used to pay in the low $40s to ski for the day at Sunday River when I last skied there in the mid 1990s.  Yup, now it's $120 for the same ticket.   

[powderfreak]

1 hour ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Can't deny that living in a ski town or the sport itself have become mostly for the wealthy.  I used to pay in the low $40s to ski for the day at Sunday River when I last skied there in the mid 1990s.  Yup, now it's $120 for the same ticket.   

But season passes have literally never been cheaper.  And advanced commitment with dynamic pricing is how the world works now.  You only pay $120+ per day right now if you just don’t do any research.

Like we talked about you can buy 1-day tickets valid any day at like a dozen mountains for $65/day right now if you do it ahead of time.  That’s cheaper than $45 in the 1990s… ~$90 today.

The sticker shock though of walk up tickets creates bad press and sentiments just like yours… because you hear those prices and it’s like holy crap!  But like almost everything else in life now, pre-buy is the way capitalism has figured out how to avoid financial uncertainty.  Like even my heating propane, if I pre-buy I’ll save several hundreds of dollars instead of buying it as I go.

Ski areas are talking the airline mentality too… give us money early we will give it cheap.  You walk up on the day you want to fly and buy a ticket (if available) will cost $1,000 instead of $300.

Im not sure I agree with it because of the negative press that comes with the lists of the most expensive walk up day tickets.  There’s no “but you can do it much cheaper” disclaimer.  But it’s the world we live in where every company on the planet will take less money now over the chance you decide later not to spend any. 

[Baroclinic Zone]

1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

But season passes have literally never been cheaper.  And advanced commitment with dynamic pricing is how the world works now.  You only pay $120+ per day right now if you just don’t do any research.

Like we talked about you can buy 1-day tickets valid any day at like a dozen mountains for $65/day right now if you do it ahead of time.  That’s cheaper than $45 in the 1990s… ~$90 today.

The sticker shock though of walk up tickets creates bad press and sentiments just like yours… because you hear those prices and it’s like holy crap!  But like almost everything else in life now, pre-buy is the way capitalism has figured out how to avoid financial uncertainty.  Like even my heating propane, if I pre-buy I’ll save several hundreds of dollars instead of buying it as I go.

Ski areas are talking the airline mentality too… give us money early we will give it cheap.  You walk up on the day you want to fly and buy a ticket (if available) will cost $1,000 instead of $300.

Im not sure I agree with it because of the negative press that comes with the lists of the most expensive walk up day tickets.  There’s no “but you can do it much cheaper” disclaimer.  But it’s the world we live in where every company on the planet will take less money now over the chance you decide later not to spend any. 

But how would that help someone like me who lives 3-4 hours away from a major ski resort with no place to stay?  Seems like season passes would work only if you had a place to stay nearby where you can hit the minimum number of days skiing to break even covering the cost of lodging.

[Baroclinic Zone]

Plus the added cost of equipment since I don't own any.

[powderfreak]

44 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

But how would that help someone like me who lives 3-4 hours away from a major ski resort with no place to stay?  Seems like season passes would work only if you had a place to stay nearby where you can hit the minimum number of days skiing to break even covering the cost of lodging.

Well the “season passes” though are different than before.  Sure you can get a full season pass for like $700 (7 days of skiing at $100 for say), or buy any “pass” of 1-7 days ahead of time.

It’s definitely an expensive sport, no getting around that but you tell me how many days you think you’d ski and I bet I could find you daily rates comparable to $40-$45 back in the 1990s (like $90 today).

I think it’s always been a sport for the wealthy, even $45 in 1994 was solidly middle class.  I guess I just don’t see it as being far removed from what it was back then.  Every year the NSAA (national ski areas association) logs a new record high in skier days.

We also live in a time where there is a lot of affluence… like if in the 1990s someone said every human will walk around with a $1,000 phone in their pocket, folks would be like say what!?

It doesn’t make it better but I bet you could ski today for a very similar price as back then controlled for inflation.  You’d just need to go about it differently than deciding on a Friday that you want to go buy a ticket and ski the next day.

[Baroclinic Zone]

15 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Well the “season passes” though are different than before.  Sure you can get a full season pass for like $700 (7 days of skiing at $100 for say), or buy any “pass” of 1-7 days ahead of time.

It’s definitely an expensive sport, no getting around that but you tell me how many days you think you’d ski and I bet I could find you daily rates comparable to $40-$45 back in the 1990s (like $90 today).

I think it’s always been a sport for the wealthy, even $45 in 1994 was solidly middle class.  I guess I just don’t see it as being far removed from what it was back then.  Every year the NSAA (national ski areas association) logs a new record high in skier days.

We also live in a time where there is a lot of affluence… like if in the 1990s someone said every human will walk around with a $1,000 phone in their pocket, folks would be like say what!?

It doesn’t make it better but I bet you could ski today for a very similar price as back then controlled for inflation.  You’d just need to go about it differently than deciding on a Friday that you want to go buy a ticket and ski the next day.

Even in my heyday, I never skied more than a handful of days a year.  That's when I was doing school trips and we had a vacation place in ME to stay on vacations.  Never skied more than a couple days in a row.

[powderfreak]

57 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Even in my heyday, I never skied more than a handful of days a year.  That's when I was doing school trips and we had a vacation place in ME to stay on vacations.  Never skied more than a couple days in a row.

Yeah I just looked at Sunday River, if you knew when you were planning a trip you can get midweek tickets for $52-$65 and $80-$110 depending on the weekends.  Even that is significant to non middle class families/people though.

I get it completely, day of pricing is ridiculous but like most endeavors these days if you plan ahead you can save big over rack rate.  The business world has really embraced dynamic pricing in all sectors.  

[mcglups]

The biggest expense for the commuting skier is lodging. I've got an IKON pass and will get 30+ days this winter so the daily ticket cost is $25, but there is no way around the lodging costing $100-$200 per night depending on location. Toss in fuel and food and that is at least $40 per day.  Time is money, so there is no way I'd do 30 day trips, honestly that isn't in my portfolio anymore! Long story short, skiing isn't cheap, but there are definitely ways to make it less astronomically expensive! Plane tickets out west and to Canada were $300 this summer, now they are over $1,000!

[Professional Lurker]

... I'm cheap.

That's why I work 1 day/ week bumping chairs, and it gets me a pass for myself and my family. Oh, and I get paid minimum wage to do it. Lol.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

[J.Spin]

16 hours ago, powderfreak said:

But season passes have literally never been cheaper.  And advanced commitment with dynamic pricing is how the world works now.  You only pay $120+ per day right now if you just don’t do any research.

But like almost everything else in life now, pre-buy is the way capitalism has figured out how to avoid financial uncertainty.  Like even my heating propane, if I pre-buy I’ll save several hundreds of dollars instead of buying it as I go.

Ski areas are talking the airline mentality too… give us money early we will give it cheap.  You walk up on the day you want to fly and buy a ticket (if available) will cost $1,000 instead of $300.

 

14 hours ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

But how would that help someone like me who lives 3-4 hours away from a major ski resort with no place to stay?  Seems like season passes would work only if you had a place to stay nearby where you can hit the minimum number of days skiing to break even covering the cost of lodging.

 

13 hours ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Even in my heyday, I never skied more than a handful of days a year.  That's when I was doing school trips and we had a vacation place in ME to stay on vacations.  Never skied more than a couple days in a row.

 

11 hours ago, mcglups said:

The biggest expense for the commuting skier is lodging. I've got an IKON pass and will get 30+ days this winter so the daily ticket cost is $25, but there is no way around the lodging costing $100-$200 per night depending on location. Toss in fuel and food and that is at least $40 per day.  Time is money, so there is no way I'd do 30 day trips, honestly that isn't in my portfolio anymore! Long story short, skiing isn't cheap, but there are definitely ways to make it less astronomically expensive! Plane tickets out west and to Canada were $300 this summer, now they are over $1,000!

It’s always great to get PF’s expert views on the industry and hear what it's like for others in the region.

It’s interesting, because from our perspective up here in NVT, it feels like people have it so ridiculously good nowadays with theses Epic and Ikon types of passes.  Season’s passes to places like Stowe and Sugarbush for something in the $500 - $700 range?  That is laughably cheap, hilariously cheap from our perspective.  To us, we look at those prices and think – isn’t that how much season’s passes to those resorts cost 10 to 20 years ago?  These prices for passes are so cheap, that it has left us second-guessing ourselves over the past several seasons when we get even our corporate rate Bolton Valley season’s passes.  Do we get our single mountain pass at a smaller resort, or get one of these other passes at roughly the same price that covers some of the largest, fanciest local resorts, as well as numerous other mountains?

From the discussion here, skiing (and the associated travel, food, lodging, etc.) definitely comes across as expensive if one wants to do it occasionally, on demand, and from a long distance.  I guess in many respects, an experience like that should cost a lot?  I’m not sure how much it should cost, but the market does what it does.  Truth be told, even as passionate as I am about skiing, if I had to do it from a great distance like some folks do, I’d probably write it off altogether and find another activity to do.  Or, I’d rearrange my life to live locally in the mountains, which makes much more sense anyway from a financial, environmental, global impact, etc. perspective.  Beyond the huge increase in costs that would come with trying to ski from afar, the travel, scheduling, and just overall “time suck” that comes with it just doesn’t seem worth it to me.  The numbers, not to mention the average quality of the ski experience, are just too ridiculously lop-sided to ignore.  With local season’s passes, we’re skiing for something like $10 a day, an almost inconsequential amount of fuel for travel, and nothing else unless we choose to spend it.  In addition, we’re picking and choosing our days with the conditions we want, and avoiding the crap days.

I guess for us, the closest ski decision of that type would be going on a long-distance ski vacation.  We haven’t taken a trip out west to ski in years.  A bit of it is because our academic schedules don’t really line up, but most of it is because it just feels like a waste of time and money.  Why blow $5,000 (or more, I’m not really sure when it all comes together) to bring the family out west for a one-off trip where we might get better conditions and powder than what’s going on at that time locally in the Northern Greens.  For that money, we can cover passes for the entire season, update any gear that needs replacing with top-quality stuff, eat at the lodge or other restaurants whenever we want, etc.  Moreover, the winters here along the spine of the Northern Greens are typically so great for someone that likes consistent snow, great skiing, winter vibe, etc., that it’s not something you really want to “get away” from, unless one isn’t into that stuff.  If weather forecasting got to the stage where I could guarantee the week I chose for a ski trip was going to be some sort of “thaw” week here at home and a massive powder week where I was going, then the calculation starts to get more interesting.  However, I’ve been on enough ski trips out west with rather “ho hum” conditions to not make me want to roll the dice too often when I can just stay local for almost nothing and pick-and-choose the primo powder days or even “powder weeks” as they come.

It’s hard to blame anyone from a distance for not wanting to take these types of regional ski trips when you look at how much it costs them.  My friends (and others I see in this thread) get around the lodging issue by getting a share at a ski house for the season, but for the very casual, few times a year skier that doesn’t want to just suck up the long day trip of driving, skiing up here sounds like a really hard sell.

[#NoPoles]

I bought a mid-week season pass to Bretton Woods this year. I work weekends so no reason for me to buy a full pass. It cost around $430. Ticket prices are around $100 so if I ski 5 times I will pretty much break even. Last year, I didn't buy a pass so the cost I paid in buying individual tickets added up pretty quickly. Hopefully this lights a fire under my azz to get out and ski more.

[#NoPoles]

Wonder when the snow guns officially fire up? Me thinks this is the time period where, if there is a good stretch of favorable temps in the forecast, that the resorts would fire up the guns? Especially for those resorts that try to open by Thanksgiving? 

I also assume that Killington will be firing up the snow guns.

[GCWarrior]

19 minutes ago, #NoPoles said:

Wonder when the snow guns officially fire up? Me thinks this is the time period where, if there is a good stretch of favorable temps in the forecast, that the resorts would fire up the guns? Especially for those resorts that try to open by Thanksgiving? 

I also assume that Killington will be firing up the snow guns.

https://www.killington.com/the-mountain/webcams/mountain/north-ridge-cam

[GCWarrior]

Looks like there should be some snowmaking effort put out in the next 10 days or so.  Killington is making snow now, I'd bet sunday river is too.  Curious if other follow suit. 

[bwt3650]

Jay has plans to start tomorrow.  They usually hold off until closer to thanksgiving, but I think this is too good a window to miss, especially if mid-month warms up.

[DavisStraight]

4 hours ago, J.Spin said:

 

 

 

It’s always great to get PF’s expert views on the industry and hear what it's like for others in the region.

It’s interesting, because from our perspective up here in NVT, it feels like people have it so ridiculously good nowadays with theses Epic and Ikon types of passes.  Season’s passes to places like Stowe and Sugarbush for something in the $500 - $700 range?  That is laughably cheap, hilariously cheap from our perspective.  To us, we look at those prices and think – isn’t that how much season’s passes to those resorts cost 10 to 20 years ago?  These prices for passes are so cheap, that it has left us second-guessing ourselves over the past several seasons when we get even our corporate rate Bolton Valley season’s passes.  Do we get our single mountain pass at a smaller resort, or get one of these other passes at roughly the same price that covers some of the largest, fanciest local resorts, as well as numerous other mountains?

From the discussion here, skiing (and the associated travel, food, lodging, etc.) definitely comes across as expensive if one wants to do it occasionally, on demand, and from a long distance.  I guess in many respects, an experience like that should cost a lot?  I’m not sure how much it should cost, but the market does what it does.  Truth be told, even as passionate as I am about skiing, if I had to do it from a great distance like some folks do, I’d probably write it off altogether and find another activity to do.  Or, I’d rearrange my life to live locally in the mountains, which makes much more sense anyway from a financial, environmental, global impact, etc. perspective.  Beyond the huge increase in costs that would come with trying to ski from afar, the travel, scheduling, and just overall “time suck” that comes with it just doesn’t seem worth it to me.  The numbers, not to mention the average quality of the ski experience, are just too ridiculously lop-sided to ignore.  With local season’s passes, we’re skiing for something like $10 a day, an almost inconsequential amount of fuel for travel, and nothing else unless we choose to spend it.  In addition, we’re picking and choosing our days with the conditions we want, and avoiding the crap days.

I guess for us, the closest ski decision of that type would be going on a long-distance ski vacation.  We haven’t taken a trip out west to ski in years.  A bit of it is because our academic schedules don’t really line up, but most of it is because it just feels like a waste of time and money.  Why blow $5,000 (or more, I’m not really sure when it all comes together) to bring the family out west for a one-off trip where we might get better conditions and powder than what’s going on at that time locally in the Northern Greens.  For that money, we can cover passes for the entire season, update any gear that needs replacing with top-quality stuff, eat at the lodge or other restaurants whenever we want, etc.  Moreover, the winters here along the spine of the Northern Greens are typically so great for someone that likes consistent snow, great skiing, winter vibe, etc., that it’s not something you really want to “get away” from, unless one isn’t into that stuff.  If weather forecasting got to the stage where I could guarantee the week I chose for a ski trip was going to be some sort of “thaw” week here at home and a massive powder week where I was going, then the calculation starts to get more interesting.  However, I’ve been on enough ski trips out west with rather “ho hum” conditions to not make me want to roll the dice too often when I can just stay local for almost nothing and pick-and-choose the primo powder days or even “powder weeks” as they come.

It’s hard to blame anyone from a distance for not wanting to take these types of regional ski trips when you look at how much it costs them.  My friends (and others I see in this thread) get around the lodging issue by getting a share at a ski house for the season, but for the very casual, few times a year skier that doesn’t want to just suck up the long day trip of driving, skiing up here sounds like a really hard sell.

That's what we used to do, get 6-8 people and split the lodging for the weekend, get skiing in Friday, Saturday and Sunday, go home Sunday night, really helped to spread the cost.

[MarkO]

Yeah, been watching Killington make snow all day via webcam. They're blowing on North Ridge and top 1/4 of Superstar since at least early this morning. By the MWN temperature profile, looks like they could make snow down to about 3500'. It had been flurrying as well. 

I met my wife at a ski house at Sugarbush. We used to pack a dozen 20/30 somethings into. After we got married and settled down, we did a MLK weekend at Sunday River. It was a costly nightmare. I figured there had to be a better way. So when things slowed down for me with work, we took $120k in equity out of our house and it just gave me enough to build the cabin. Now that it's paid off, my only expenses on it are taxes, membership fees and utilities. It still ads up to over $10k/yr, but at less than $1k/month, we can pretty easily swing it both working in the Greater Lowell area. 

As for passes, I get my White Mountain Superpass. It ain't cheap, $1279. I wasn't sure I was going to do it this year, but I designed a replacement septic for a friend, so he paid for my pass in return. Friends helping friends out. I also used to get the free season pass to WV for my kids when they rented seasonal skis from Ken Jones ($150/yr each), but now that they've outgrown it, I think my kids will be spending most of the time at Campton Mountain, and I'll just get the day discount passes for WV our community gets. I think it'll be around $60-70/each.

As J Spin mentioned, season passes (generally speaking) are far more affordable (aside from mine). Back in the late 90's a season pass to Sugarbush was $1500!

[Angus]

20 hours ago, mcglups said:

The biggest expense for the commuting skier is lodging. I've got an IKON pass and will get 30+ days this winter so the daily ticket cost is $25, but there is no way around the lodging costing $100-$200 per night depending on location.

I was Epic last year and this year with the Indy pass, I suspect my per day expense by season end will likely go up with lodging to ski Jay and Saddleback

[powderfreak]

3 hours ago, bwt3650 said:

Jay has plans to start tomorrow.  They usually hold off until closer to thanksgiving, but I think this is too good a window to miss, especially if mid-month warms up.

Yeah Stowe has crews in tonight too.  We’ve almost always started at the first chance after November 1st…. though have made snow in late October if a cold shot is starting that rolls into November.

[Baroclinic Zone]

I knew of these rumors in the past but with Boyne taking ownership at Shawnee, expansion to the west side of current trail layout could be back on the plate.  They own enough land that could double the size of the current area, if they so choose.

[Baroclinic Zone]

And the news out of Sunday River will be intriguing to see unfold in the upcoming years.  Merrill Hill will be a real estate development to open next year with a triple chair.  Epic lots for sale there.  They weill be installing an 8-pack to replace the Jordan HSQ which will be repurposed to replace the Barker HSQ.  The other piece was talk of the "Western Preserve", which is thousands of acres of land beyond Jordan.  I've read that they own the 3 peaks to the West of Jordan, which would make the resort massive.  My bet is they would be looking to put in a new resort base area out in the Jordan area with the 8-pack providing access.

[HIPPYVALLEY]

46 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

And the news out of Sunday River will be intriguing to see unfold in the upcoming years.  Merrill Hill will be a real estate development to open next year with a triple chair.  Epic lots for sale there.  They weill be installing an 8-pack to replace the Jordan HSQ which will be repurposed to replace the Barker HSQ.  The other piece was talk of the "Western Preserve", which is thousands of acres of land beyond Jordan.  I've read that they own the 3 peaks to the West of Jordan, which would make the resort massive.  My bet is they would be looking to put in a new resort base area out in the Jordan area with the 8-pack providing access.

"Someday bigger?"

[snowgeek]

I went with IKON this year.  It's my first "season pass" since my brother worked snowmaking at Stratton in the 80's and family members got free season passes.  My son is spending the winter in Boulder so he got an IKON.  I'm going out in February to ski Copper, ABasin and Eldora.  Got my airfare for $425 before prices went bonkers!  For me, splurging on a western trip makes sense this year to ski with my boy.  I'm 1 hour to Windham, 1:40 to Stratton and 2:15 to KMart, easy day trips, so I hope to get 20 days in.  I try to ski one day each weekend.  Would work out to $50 a day.  IKON is pricey!  I paid $999.  Sugarbush is a tough day trip at 3:30.  Hoping to do a weekend there.  Sugarloaf would be fun but that will probably have to wait until retirement in a couple of years.  Long drive!  Will finally have time to ski more, but will my knees and back hold up?  Irony!  Gotta get to Maine to ski at some point.  Sunday River looks intriguing.  

[Baroclinic Zone]

16 hours ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

"Someday bigger?"

LOL.  I 1st skied there in 1979/80, so it's slightly larger now. 

[MarkO]

Looks a little chaotic at Killington. I am a bit jealous.

 

 

[Sugarloaf1989]

Killington is temporarily closed and the Northridge Quad has mechanical issues. 

[PhineasC]

My 7 year old wanted a helmet cam to record her shredding adventures this season so I hope to get a Youtube channel going with clips. I will post it here once we get going.

[bwt3650]

47 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

My 7 year old wanted a helmet cam to record her shredding adventures this season so I hope to get a Youtube channel going with clips. I will post it here one we get going.

My 9 year old is begging for a go-pro.  I might give in this year just to see the craziness. 

[Baroclinic Zone]

59 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

My 7 year old wanted a helmet cam to record her shredding adventures this season so I hope to get a Youtube channel going with clips. I will post it here once we get going.

She a snowboarder or skier?  Bretton Woods gonna be your go to?  

[PhineasC]

We all ski and BW is our main mountain, for sure. We also ski at Cannon on a regular basis and will add Wildcat in this season assuming the conditions are good. That mountain was pretty rough last season unless you enjoy a hot mess where you are fighting the terrible conditions the entire way down. Not my cup of tea, but some people seem to get into that.