The 2021-2022 Ski season thread

[PowderBeard]

53 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

My buddy resigned as the GM up at Wildcat this summer.  We had had neighboring offices at Stowe years back.  Good guy but sounded like a very difficult task up there as they aren’t financially viable businesses on their own.  So trying to make them into one is quite tricky.  Sounds like Wildcat barely has reliable power, with the power company working in the remote woods up there many times a winter.

I don’t think there’s anyway those two ski areas can financially operate independently… why they were with Peak Resorts and now Vail Resorts.

Completely agree on not being able to function as an indy. Any idea how Waterville survives and continues to put in new lifts/terrain? I imagine the White Mountain Superpass (maybe Indy as well) must help. The power issue is rough, I have only been to Wildcat 5 times, 3 of which they had no power until mid-day or lost it in the afternoon. Just a shape with the terrain they have, the layout, and that quad hauls ass.

 

21 minutes ago, NW_of_GYX said:

The Attitash situation is crazy to me with the amount of beds and skier visits in the valley. Bwoods is further away and has inferior terrain but takes a lot of their business. Cranmore has invested wisely as well. Attitash should be pulling so many more skier visits but the infrastructure issues are so bad folks drive further to to Bwoods. In some ways you would think if vail would invest anywhere it would be attitash. The NoCo ski market remains huge but bizarrely lacks a flagship resort, Bwoods has really filled that void, but Attitash could take all that business back with some strategic investment ( a bubble six pack summit lift for instance). Both areas desperately need new lodges as well. Wildcat is cold as balls and really just needs to embrace the spring skiing opportunities a la ABasin - but probably will never make money IMHO. 

That Summit Triple has just been a nightmare recent years. Bretton Woods is similar to Stratton imo, all about the polished infrastructure. 

[powderfreak]

5 minutes ago, PowderBeard said:

Completely agree on not being able to function as an indy. Any idea how Waterville survives and continues to put in new lifts/terrain? I imagine the White Mountain Superpass (maybe Indy as well) must help. The power issue is rough, I have only been to Wildcat 5 times, 3 of which they had no power until mid-day or lost it in the afternoon. Just a shape with the terrain they have, the layout, and that quad hauls ass.

 

That Summit Triple has just been a nightmare recent years. Bretton Woods is similar to Stratton imo, all about the polished infrastructure. 

Real Estate.  Later when watching the Sox game I’ll put some thoughts together on that.  Just a quick look on news items past two years gives me a good idea on Waterville right now.

[PowderBeard]

Newenglandskihistory.com shows some interesting data for skier visits. I would have never guessed Attitash was 3/4 for NH in terms of skier visits throughout the 90s and early 2000s. Wildcat had better numbers than Cannon until 2010-2011. Then just fell off a cliff. I don't know all my pass/industry history but it has never recovered.

Wildcat

2007-2008: 112,139

2008-2009: 155,325

2009-2010: 146,884

2010-2011: 77,100

2011-2012: 53, 599

2012-2013: 76,117

2013-2014: 64,400

[NW_of_GYX]

27 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Real Estate.  Later when watching the Sox game I’ll put some thoughts together on that.  Just a quick look on news items past two years gives me a good idea on Waterville right now.

This is correct. Waterville was always planned around real estate sales and development and they’ve executed well enough . I’ve skied there for some industry events and it’s a great place for that. The terrain is fine, views are fantastic, lodge is good. They’ve built just enough of a ski area to sell massive amounts of real estate to the Boston market. I’ve also attended some off season non-industry conferences there and noticed some of the original hospitality build out is getting dated though. 

[PhineasC]

2 hours ago, PowderBeard said:

I wish someone would come in and make an offer on Wildcat and Attitash. I can't imagine Vail really wants them anyway.  There were so many disgruntled pass holders/locals on social media discussing operations and lack of communication. Wildcat really is a gem and probably one of few places I would ever consider having a place at. Part of the reason why that Crotch-Snow-Cat-Tash pass worked well for Mass/NH folks was because Wildcat would be t2b in October/November. Whereas the other choices were the golf course at Bretton Woods, stairs at K, or downloading at Sunday River. 

I sure hope Wildcat is better this season. It was pretty rough last season. They had a lousy season snowfall wise. Randolph beat them handily in the snowfall department.

[PhineasC]

BW is our go-to. It's perfect for my kids right now. They love exploring every nook and cranny and we love the layout where it is basically impossible to get lost. If you keep skiing downhill you end up at the lodge no matter what.

We went to Sunday River late season and that place is bewildering, to a hilarious degree. It is like a puzzle resort designed to trap people forever. They also have that ridiculous, asinine "toll booth" style gate system before the lifts. So stupid. I really didn't care for it much. It is close to us though.

[powderfreak]

16 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

BW is our go-to. It's perfect for my kids right now. They love exploring every nook and cranny and we love the layout where it is basically impossible to get lost. If you keep skiing downhill you end up at the lodge no matter what.

We went to Sunday River late season and that place is bewildering, to a hilarious degree. It is like a puzzle resort designed to trap people forever. They also have that ridiculous, asinine "toll booth" style gate system before the lifts. So stupid. I really didn't care for it much. It is close to us though.

This is why there's no one size fits all ski area and why "who is best" is often a mute point in the grand scheme of things.  Because each mountain excels at something different and fits visitors differently.  That's why when you find something that works and is enjoyable go with it... it can be fun to venture out but often the question is why mess with something good?  I guess that carries over to everything in life, ha.  Have a favorite restaurant that's perfect for your situation?  Think hey maybe we will try this other place, then at the end you're like should've just gone to our usual spot.

The big thing for families skiing, is that if you get separated for any reason you just want to go downhill and know your family will end up there.  My mom was always ultra anal about staying together at Killington growing up... because literally a wrong turn could put a kid like 4 miles from where the rest of the family is.  Sunday River is the same thing.  Also ski areas with a lot of geographic width will eventually have you end up on a traverse or cat track with some skating involved... with kids that can be problematic as everyone wants a tow or a push.  However, if you are older or don't have to worry about where a kid might end up, it's a lot of fun exploring a huge ski area and basically getting lost with friends trying all the different lifts and areas.

And regarding the RFID gates... man, I love them.  We put them in at Stowe years ago and it was a terrible first year.  The guests didn't understand it, and to be honest the staff wasn't even sure.  But once everyone figured it out and learned it, it was fast and people loved it.  With kids though it's a pain because the "strike zone" is usually one height (aimed at adults) and kids are not all one height... so scanning their passes means they are jumping up at it, doing a shuffle/dance, then bar drops down and hits them in the face or something, its definitely not as kid friendly either.  Kids also don't move as fast or easily as adults so the bar can be back in position before the kid even made it through.  But it is wildly efficient otherwise.

However after we had them for several winters, Vail bought us, and Vail Resorts likes the "personal" touch of having an employee scan you and greet you by name (in theory) and all that jazz.  They wanted the face to face interaction instead of the "toll booth style."  So we removed the RIFD gates but now need to find 30+ people a day to staff lines as ticket scanners, and in a tough labor market I know many wish it was just automated like it was for those few years.  I think once you learn how to use them, it is incredibly efficient.  Though the VR scanning method is fine too, as you don't have to take your card out of your jacket, it just scans it through your clothing.

In the end the least efficient method is having to physically display a lift ticket... it's 2021.  Put it in your pocket and forget about it for the day...get scanned without having to show it to anyone whether with a wand or an RFID gate.

[PowderBeard]

23 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

 

We went to Sunday River late season and that place is bewildering, to a hilarious degree. It is like a puzzle resort designed to trap people forever. They also have that ridiculous, asinine "toll booth" style gate system before the lifts. So stupid. I really didn't care for it much. It is close to us though.

It's like Killington, have to go east-west because the most real vert you can get is 1,300-1500'. Sadly, it's only a matter of time until all mountains have RFID-type systems. I can't believe Berkshire East even has it now.

 

Edit: Damn I stand corrected, can't believe Stowe got rid of them. That was my first experience with them years ago and it was rough. 

[powderfreak]

25 minutes ago, PowderBeard said:

It's like Killington, have to go east-west because the most real vert you can get is 1,300-1500'. Sadly, it's only a matter of time until all mountains have RFID-type systems. I can't believe Berkshire East even has it now.

 

Edit: Damn I stand corrected, can't believe Stowe got rid of them. That was my first experience with them years ago and it was rough. 

Ha yeah good to know these opinions.  Mine and many others in the industry love the gates.  I understand the logic of Vail wanting to have a personal interaction face to face but once you got the hang of the RFID gates, I thought it was incredibly smooth.  The first winter was real rough though.

The main driver was to get something with a reloadable card/ticket that the guest can keep and just reload when they want to ski.  Or hell you didn’t even have to reload, just attach a credit card to it and you just show up to the lift and get charged the first run of the day.  It’s so much more flexible than having to get the day’s paper ticket each time out.

Little known fact… Alta, Utah was one of if not the first ski area in the U.S. to use them.  Jay Peak was first in Vermont.  We went up there to talk to them about their experience before buying and I remember Jay Peak said their one mistake was they put it too close to the lift load point… you miss chairs when there is a problem at the gate.  And no one wants to see empty chairs going up when there’s a line.

[greenmtnwx]

It’s a shame that NH skiing is fairly subpar. Considering the incredible terrain and vertical that the Whites have to offer in the East it’s kind of puzzling NH doesn’t do skiing better. It’s probably the biggest reason I chose VT over NH for my cabin even though I love the Whites and plenty of things about NH. VT just beats the pants off of them in skiing and snow and the whole ski vibe.

[PhineasC]

47 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

This is why there's no one size fits all ski area and why "who is best" is often a mute point in the grand scheme of things.  Because each mountain excels at something different and fits visitors differently.  That's why when you find something that works and is enjoyable go with it... it can be fun to venture out but often the question is why mess with something good?  I guess that carries over to everything in life, ha.  Have a favorite restaurant that's perfect for your situation?  Think hey maybe we will try this other place, then at the end you're like should've just gone to our usual spot.

The big thing for families skiing, is that if you get separated for any reason you just want to go downhill and know your family will end up there.  My mom was always ultra anal about staying together at Killington growing up... because literally a wrong turn could put a kid like 4 miles from where the rest of the family is.  Sunday River is the same thing.  Also ski areas with a lot of geographic width will eventually have you end up on a traverse or cat track with some skating involved... with kids that can be problematic as everyone wants a tow or a push.  However, if you are older or don't have to worry about where a kid might end up, it's a lot of fun exploring a huge ski area and basically getting lost with friends trying all the different lifts and areas.

And regarding the RFID gates... man, I love them.  We put them in at Stowe years ago and it was a terrible first year.  The guests didn't understand it, and to be honest the staff wasn't even sure.  But once everyone figured it out and learned it, it was fast and people loved it.  With kids though it's a pain because the "strike zone" is usually one height (aimed at adults) and kids are not all one height... so scanning their passes means they are jumping up at it, doing a shuffle/dance, then bar drops down and hits them in the face or something, its definitely not as kid friendly either.  Kids also don't move as fast or easily as adults so the bar can be back in position before the kid even made it through.  But it is wildly efficient otherwise.

However after we had them for several winters, Vail bought us, and Vail Resorts likes the "personal" touch of having an employee scan you and greet you by name (in theory) and all that jazz.  They wanted the face to face interaction instead of the "toll booth style."  So we removed the RIFD gates but now need to find 30+ people a day to staff lines as ticket scanners, and in a tough labor market I know many wish it was just automated like it was for those few years.  I think once you learn how to use them, it is incredibly efficient.  Though the VR scanning method is fine too, as you don't have to take your card out of your jacket, it just scans it through your clothing.

In the end the least efficient method is having to physically display a lift ticket... it's 2021.  Put it in your pocket and forget about it for the day...get scanned without having to show it to anyone whether with a wand or an RFID gate.

I kept having to dig the cards back out of the kids' jackets every time we got to the lift because it couldn't scan them. It seemed really clunky and pointless. Long lines with empty lifts going up too. I get why the resorts use them, but I hope BW stays away for as long as possible.

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, greenmtnwx said:

It’s a shame that NH skiing is fairly subpar. Considering the incredible terrain and vertical that the Whites have to offer in the East it’s kind of puzzling NH doesn’t do skiing better. It’s probably the biggest reason I chose VT over NH for my cabin even though I love the Whites and plenty of things about NH. VT just beats the pants off of them in skiing and snow and the whole ski vibe.

We've been happy with it, but we are not doing the ski town/après-ski thing. We ski and then go straight home to do family stuff. I could see being pretty bored if I was there on vacation and wanted to do something after 5 PM. LOL 

Gorham is a two-horse town for sure. 

I was shocked when we bought our house to see that the BW area was literally identical to how it was 20 years prior. There was basically nothing new in the surrounding "town."

Same way at Wildcat. Nothing there.

It is a little different down at Cranmore. They have a little more of the ski village thing going on there.

[powderfreak]

23 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I kept having to dig the cards back out of the kids' jackets every time we got to the lift because it couldn't scan them. It seemed really clunky and pointless. Long lines with empty lifts going up too. I get why the resorts use them, but I hope BW stays away for as long as possible.

No matter what resorts use to assess validity of ticket, this is the ultimate no-no in mountain operations.  You have a fixed uphill capacity, you need bodies in those spots no matter what when there’s a line up.

They still need to monitor loss prevention practices and make sure guests are legitimate (even for liability as purchase acknowledges the legal release)… but filling uphill capacity on every carrier is key.

[PhineasC]

8 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

No matter what resorts use to assess validity of ticket, this is the ultimate no-no in mountain operations.  You have a fixed uphill capacity, you need bodies in those spots no matter what when there’s a line up.

They still need to monitor loss prevention practices and make sure guests are legitimate (even for liability as purchase acknowledges the legal release)… but filling uphill capacity on every carrier is key.

I am willing to give them a pass for last season because of COVID. The hardcore social distancing protocols in Maine likely made it really hard for them to control traffic in the way intended with the gates. You would have laughed if you saw the chaos at their "chondola." A weird mix of jammed up mobs with 20-50 people and then one or two guys at a time moving six feet apart towards the lift while the mob mills around behind them. It was probably the worst possible way to do things.

Our bigger issue with the mountain is the risk of losing the kids and all of the flat parts you have to trudge over to get between the different areas. It would be a cool place if you knew the mountain well and were just blasting around by yourself.

[bwt3650]

4 hours ago, powderfreak said:

Ha yeah good to know these opinions.  Mine and many others in the industry love the gates.  I understand the logic of Vail wanting to have a personal interaction face to face but once you got the hang of the RFID gates, I thought it was incredibly smooth.  The first winter was real rough though.

The main driver was to get something with a reloadable card/ticket that the guest can keep and just reload when they want to ski.  Or hell you didn’t even have to reload, just attach a credit card to it and you just show up to the lift and get charged the first run of the day.  It’s so much more flexible than having to get the day’s paper ticket each time out.

Little known fact… Alta, Utah was one of if not the first ski area in the U.S. to use them.  Jay Peak was first in Vermont.  We went up there to talk to them about their experience before buying and I remember Jay Peak said their one mistake was they put it too close to the lift load point… you miss chairs when there is a problem at the gate.  And no one wants to see empty chairs going up when there’s a line.

When they are working smoothly, the RFID system is great.  But I've left a credit card or maybe my phone or something in a pocket near the card and then the gates don't open or you are doing that freaky looking bump/dance next to the reader to try and get it to work.  If it doesn't work right away, I'll just move to the side and try and grab the actual card out, but I've seen people on busy days sit there and try it over and over while the line backs up and it doesn't take long for the "get the f out of the way" mumbles to get louder and louder.  But from a resort perspective, I'm sure there is better use of labor than having two or three people scanning with the guns, especially with a labor shortage. 

[bwt3650]

10 hours ago, PhineasC said:

I expect a big season for my family, at least. Hope to get out at least 40 days.

Highlight of my year is being out with my family during the season.  Last year was a big step with my kids finally being able to hang on some more intermediate terrain.  My wife snowboards so when I go out with her, I'll switch it up and it's like a completely different mountain on a board.  It's kind of become our thing to do together and get a little kid free time.  The excitement is starting to build.  In some years past, K-mart was only about a month away from opening.  

[PowderBeard]

10 hours ago, greenmtnwx said:

It’s a shame that NH skiing is fairly subpar. Considering the incredible terrain and vertical that the Whites have to offer in the East it’s kind of puzzling NH doesn’t do skiing better. It’s probably the biggest reason I chose VT over NH for my cabin even though I love the Whites and plenty of things about NH. VT just beats the pants off of them in skiing and snow and the whole ski vibe.

They chose the wrong mountains to build on. Cannon for the tram over Blue or Moosilauke. Also had plans for Jefferson and Twin. Could have had multiple ski areas with 2500-3000' of vert, above the tree line, and more snow. Only one Vermont really missed on was Dorset, would have been massive. https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/cancelledskiareas/Vermont/dorsethollow.php

[powderfreak]

9 hours ago, bwt3650 said:

When they are working smoothly, the RFID system is great.  But I've left a credit card or maybe my phone or something in a pocket near the card and then the gates don't open or you are doing that freaky looking bump/dance next to the reader to try and get it to work.  If it doesn't work right away, I'll just move to the side and try and grab the actual card out, but I've seen people on busy days sit there and try it over and over while the line backs up and it doesn't take long for the "get the f out of the way" mumbles to get louder and louder.  But from a resort perspective, I'm sure there is better use of labor than having two or three people scanning with the guns, especially with a labor shortage. 

The “RFID Shuffle” ha.  Yeah this is all interesting to hear because I truly feel the industry thinks it’s the best thing since sliced bread.  Even the small spots are putting them in.

[powderfreak]

12 hours ago, PhineasC said:

I am willing to give them a pass for last season because of COVID. The hardcore social distancing protocols in Maine likely made it really hard for them to control traffic in the way intended with the gates. You would have laughed if you saw the chaos at their "chondola." A weird mix of jammed up mobs with 20-50 people and then one or two guys at a time moving six feet apart towards the lift while the mob mills around behind them. It was probably the worst possible way to do things.

Our bigger issue with the mountain is the risk of losing the kids and all of the flat parts you have to trudge over to get between the different areas. It would be a cool place if you knew the mountain well and were just blasting around by yourself.

Yeah to be honest no ski area should be judged by last winter, or maybe even this winter … but not opening that can of worms just yet.

[J.Spin]

17 hours ago, powderfreak said:

And regarding the RFID gates... man, I love them.

Oh man, I love them too.  It was so exciting when even Bolton added them a few years back.  There’s no more fumbling about trying to get your season’s pass out to show the ticket attendant; you just walk right up, go through the gate, and off you go.  It’s so fantastic on storm days when you don’t have to deal with taking your gloves off, trying to find your pass, sitting there getting your hands wet and cold in the pounding snow.  Then you’re trying to shove everything back in your pocket before you load on the lift, etc.

It seems great from the resort’s perspective as well – they really don’t need anyone checking tickets at the lifts, and that has to be a great savings on the number of lift employees you’re paying.  Most of the time at Bolton’s lifts there’s just the lift attendant to help you load and that’s it, although they do seem to have a roaming associate or two that circulate among some of the larger lifts to give it a bit more of a personal touch, manage the gating for traffic flow, etc.

At a low-key place like Bolton where there are rarely lift queues, it really seems to run smoothly.  People just stroll up to the lifts and essentially “check their own tickets” and hop on.

Oh, and for kids that are having issues with getting their RFID pass in the detection zone, I recommend getting them a shell with an arm/shoulder pocket and putting the pass in there.  That’s already putting the pass in an elevated, exposed spot, and then it’s easy to move one’s arm around to raise/lower the pass if you need to get it higher into the RFID detection zone.

[PhineasC]

We skied weekdays at BW and Cannon most of the winter and not a single time did they scan our season passes, which we had attached to our jackets. It was smooth as silk at those places because of that, obviously. We didn't ski on weekends or peak. I assume on those days they are doing the "go through the crowd scanning people" deal.

We went to Sunday River midweek too, but they had the gates and it was a mess. I'm sure if we skied there more often we'd become accustomed to it, plus they should eventually get back to their normal traffic control policies once the distancing stuff is done. I'm sure standard procedure rolls more smoothly than what I saw.

[powderfreak]

Some lift upgrades coming.

Vermont & New Hampshire 

• Stowe Mountain Resort, Mountain Lift: The replacement and extension of the existing fixed-grip triple to a high-speed 6-person lift will increase uphill capacity by 100%, eliminate the steep hike to the base of the lift, improve reliability on windy days and offer beginner and intermediate guests with better access to lower-level terrain choices. 
• Mount Snow, Sundance/Tumbleweed Lift: The replacement of two fixed-grip triples with one high-speed 6-person lift will improve access to underutilized terrain and alleviate pressure on other lifts in the main base area, increasing uphill capacity by nearly 70%. 
• Mount Snow, Sunbrook Lift: A new high-speed 4-person chair to replace the existing fixed-grip triple will significantly decrease the current 14-minute ride time by approximately 30% and result in better utilization of the Sunbrook terrain. 
• Attitash Mountain Resort: The replacement of the East and West Double-Double chairs with one fixed-grip 4-person chair will improve reliability and enhance the overall guest experience at Attitash.

[PhineasC]

43 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Some lift upgrades coming.

Vermont & New Hampshire 

• Stowe Mountain Resort, Mountain Lift: The replacement and extension of the existing fixed-grip triple to a high-speed 6-person lift will increase uphill capacity by 100%, eliminate the steep hike to the base of the lift, improve reliability on windy days and offer beginner and intermediate guests with better access to lower-level terrain choices. 
• Mount Snow, Sundance/Tumbleweed Lift: The replacement of two fixed-grip triples with one high-speed 6-person lift will improve access to underutilized terrain and alleviate pressure on other lifts in the main base area, increasing uphill capacity by nearly 70%. 
• Mount Snow, Sunbrook Lift: A new high-speed 4-person chair to replace the existing fixed-grip triple will significantly decrease the current 14-minute ride time by approximately 30% and result in better utilization of the Sunbrook terrain. 
• Attitash Mountain Resort: The replacement of the East and West Double-Double chairs with one fixed-grip 4-person chair will improve reliability and enhance the overall guest experience at Attitash.

That sounds like a nice upgrade for Stowe.

[bwt3650]

1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

Some lift upgrades coming.

Vermont & New Hampshire 

• Stowe Mountain Resort, Mountain Lift: The replacement and extension of the existing fixed-grip triple to a high-speed 6-person lift will increase uphill capacity by 100%, eliminate the steep hike to the base of the lift, improve reliability on windy days and offer beginner and intermediate guests with better access to lower-level terrain choices. 
• Mount Snow, Sundance/Tumbleweed Lift: The replacement of two fixed-grip triples with one high-speed 6-person lift will improve access to underutilized terrain and alleviate pressure on other lifts in the main base area, increasing uphill capacity by nearly 70%. 
• Mount Snow, Sunbrook Lift: A new high-speed 4-person chair to replace the existing fixed-grip triple will significantly decrease the current 14-minute ride time by approximately 30% and result in better utilization of the Sunbrook terrain. 
• Attitash Mountain Resort: The replacement of the East and West Double-Double chairs with one fixed-grip 4-person chair will improve reliability and enhance the overall guest experience at Attitash.

Big news on the mountain triple.  I swear you could hear that thing grunt on busy days, though it was the go to when windy.  That’s for next season I assume?  Where are they extending it to?

[greenmtnwx]

12 hours ago, PowderBeard said:

They chose the wrong mountains to build on. Cannon for the tram over Blue or Moosilauke. Also had plans for Jefferson and Twin. Could have had multiple ski areas with 2500-3000' of vert, above the tree line, and more snow. Only one Vermont really missed on was Dorset, would have been massive. https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/cancelledskiareas/Vermont/dorsethollow.php

Agree that NH chose some of the wrong mountains to build on, but wind and weather there seems more of a challenge than the spine of the VT Greens in general.

On Dorset, that mountain just doesn't get enough snow. Same with Equinox, which looks like it would be a hell of a great snow bowl to ski but they just don't get the snow. For some off reason those SW VT peaks which are really nice mountains and impressive terrain only get maybe ~90" of snow, while a mountain like Stratton gets close to double that. I guess it's lack of upslope or maybe some type of downsloping off the 'Dacks or something but it's prominent.

[greenmtnwx]

22 hours ago, PhineasC said:

We've been happy with it, but we are not doing the ski town/après-ski thing. We ski and then go straight home to do family stuff. I could see being pretty bored if I was there on vacation and wanted to do something after 5 PM. LOL 

Gorham is a two-horse town for sure. 

I was shocked when we bought our house to see that the BW area was literally identical to how it was 20 years prior. There was basically nothing new in the surrounding "town."

Same way at Wildcat. Nothing there.

It is a little different down at Cranmore. They have a little more of the ski village thing going on there.

We are not Apres either much. We are a head back at 4pm, have a few pops and some mac n cheese at the cabin and my head his the pillow at 8. I'm out on the couch half the time. I was just saying the skiing and snow NH can't beat VT. The Whites are awesome and far more impressive in many ways, but NH just didn't get the skiing right.

[PhineasC]

1 hour ago, greenmtnwx said:

We are not Apres either much. We are a head back at 4pm, have a few pops and some mac n cheese at the cabin and my head his the pillow at 8. I'm out on the couch half the time. I was just saying the skiing and snow NH can't beat VT. The Whites are awesome and far more impressive in many ways, but NH just didn't get the skiing right.

I haven't skied much in VT recently, but I have been very happy with the conditions at BW so far. I am not a deep powder hound like most of you seem to be, so we probably are looking for different things. I would tend to agree that NH ski places for whatever reason seem to not have those deep powder stashes all the time like some VT places have (based on the posts here).

[greenmtnwx]

12 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I haven't skied much in VT recently, but I have been very happy with the conditions at BW so far. I am not a deep powder hound like most of you seem to be, so we probably are looking for different things. I would tend to agree that NH ski places for whatever reason seem to not have those deep powder stashes all the time like some VT places have (based on the posts here).

BW is a fine family, confidence building cruiser place to ski. It just can’t be compared in the same category as a Stowe, Sugarbush, or even the glades at Stratton or Jay.

[PhineasC]

3 minutes ago, greenmtnwx said:

BW is a fine family, confidence building cruiser place to ski. It just can’t be compared in the same category as a Stowe, Sugarbush, or even the glades at Stratton or Jay.

You seem kinda defensive for your chosen spot, which is fine. Whatever floats your boat is fine. Not looking for a pissing contest. There are plenty of guys out west who think VT skiing is a total waste of time too. LOL

[backedgeapproaching]

1 hour ago, greenmtnwx said:

Agree that NH chose some of the wrong mountains to build on, but wind and weather there seems more of a challenge than the spine of the VT Greens in general.

On Dorset, that mountain just doesn't get enough snow. Same with Equinox, which looks like it would be a hell of a great snow bowl to ski but they just don't get the snow. For some off reason those SW VT peaks which are really nice mountains and impressive terrain only get maybe ~90" of snow, while a mountain like Stratton gets close to double that. I guess it's lack of upslope or maybe some type of downsloping off the 'Dacks or something but it's prominent.

The higher elevations of Dorset and Mt Eqx definitely get more than 90" of snow, my seven year running total average here is 97.1"  Now, I'm also measuring every tenth of an inch and really not missing anything, but you can see how in the 1500-3500ft range would certainly be more.  The biggest issue by far would be the retention, which just sucks east of the spine, even at elevation on Mt Eqx and the hills around Dorset.(Although total snowfall is prob lower too)  If there were ski hills at EQX and Dorset, below 1500' would be a struggle for natural coverage some years. Mt Eqx actually does pretty well on blocked upslope flow, but again the whole Taconic range in SVT can torch all the way to the top.  Stratton, Bromley, Mt Snow, Magic, Okemo, etc all have MUCH better retention and do better on big east coast storms with E/SE flow for the most part.  Every time I look at Equinox it just screams potential, regardless of snowfall or retention.