The 2021-2022 Ski season thread

[greenmtnwx]

40 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

You seem kinda defensive for your chosen spot, which is fine. Whatever floats your boat is fine. Not looking for a pissing contest. There are plenty of guys out west who think VT skiing is a total waste of time too. LOL

I agree with them, compared to out west VT skiing is a joke lol

[greenmtnwx]

38 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

The higher elevations of Dorset and Mt Eqx definitely get more than 90" of snow, my seven year running total average here is 97.1"  Now, I'm also measuring every tenth of an inch and really not missing anything, but you can see how in the 1500-3500ft range would certainly be more.  The biggest issue by far would be the retention, which just sucks east of the spine, even at elevation on Mt Eqx and the hills around Dorset.(Although total snowfall is prob lower too)  If there were ski hills at EQX and Dorset, below 1500' would be a struggle for natural coverage some years. Mt Eqx actually does pretty well on blocked upslope flow, but again the whole Taconic range in SVT can torch all the way to the top.  Stratton, Bromley, Mt Snow, Magic, Okemo, etc all have MUCH better retention and do better on big east coast storms with E/SE flow for the most part.  Every time I look at Equinox it just screams potential, regardless of snowfall or retention.

Agree. 

[PhineasC]

We'll be getting the kids' rentals this week or next. The place we use said they'd have stock ready by then. Getting excited! Hope November comes in strong with cold and snow to jumpstart the season.

[mreaves]

1 hour ago, backedgeapproaching said:

The higher elevations of Dorset and Mt Eqx definitely get more than 90" of snow, my seven year running total average here is 97.1"  Now, I'm also measuring every tenth of an inch and really not missing anything, but you can see how in the 1500-3500ft range would certainly be more.  The biggest issue by far would be the retention, which just sucks east of the spine, even at elevation on Mt Eqx and the hills around Dorset.(Although total snowfall is prob lower too)  If there were ski hills at EQX and Dorset, below 1500' would be a struggle for natural coverage some years. Mt Eqx actually does pretty well on blocked upslope flow, but again the whole Taconic range in SVT can torch all the way to the top.  Stratton, Bromley, Mt Snow, Magic, Okemo, etc all have MUCH better retention and do better on big east coast storms with E/SE flow for the most part.  Every time I look at Equinox it just screams potential, regardless of snowfall or retention.

Skin up the toll road to earn your turns?  There are some “off grid” snowmobile trails down there that I’d like to explore sometime. You can ride up to the EQX summit. 

[backedgeapproaching]

17 minutes ago, mreaves said:

Skin up the toll road to earn your turns?  There are some “off grid” snowmobile trails down there that I’d like to explore sometime. You can ride up to the EQX summit. 

I know there are some guys around here that have some go to skin spots on EQX, no idea where exactly. But yea, toll road would make the access little easier.

I looked a house a few years ago at the base of equinox in the 1500' range deep in the woods,  i recall a trail literally out the backdoor, not sure if it was "off grid" or not. I have some friends that ride over that way all the time. Never been on a Snowmobile, need to tag along one of these winters with some friends that have them to try it out.

[radarman]

10 hours ago, greenmtnwx said:

I agree with them, compared to out west VT skiing is a joke lol

Meh

I like skiing out west a lot too but there"s nothing wrong with skiing in VT

[J.Spin]

11 hours ago, greenmtnwx said:

I agree with them, compared to out west VT skiing is a joke lol

 

1 hour ago, radarman said:

Meh

I like skiing out west a lot too but there"s nothing wrong with skiing in VT

The “Meh” seems appropriate, or maybe a “LOL” would be the right response.

That initial “joke” comment was probably an impromptu remark for some sort of dramatic effect, but it definitely smacks of both arrogance and parochialism.  It’s essentially writing off the vast majority of ski areas in the country as “a joke”.  The top tier resorts in Central, and especially Northern Vermont easily compare head-to-head with the mid-tier resorts in the Rockies and throughout the west in terms of snowfall, terrain, amenities, infrastructure, etc., etc.  People are out of touch with reality if they think that skiing out west is all Whistlers, Altas, and Squaw Valleys.  But that’s the sort of stuff people see on their vacations, that’s where the “big” terrain is, and those are the spots that get all the hype.  After years of living and skiing in the Northern Rockies on what is known as some of the best “cold smoke” snow in the country, I wouldn’t have moved back to NVT if I felt the skiing wasn’t on par with the typical skiing out there.  As they seem to say in the forum, “some know, some don’t”, but for those that do know, I’m not sure how they can see PF’s reports and pictures, day after day throughout the season, and not realize the quality of the skiing on even a national scale.

I’ll be sure to remind all my friends in Montana that if they’re not skiing at Big Sky or maybe Bridger, that they’re wasting their time because the other dozen or so great ski areas in the state are just a big "joke".

[PhineasC]

51 minutes ago, J.Spin said:

 

The “Meh” seems appropriate, or maybe a “LOL” would be the right response.

That initial “joke” comment was probably an impromptu remark for some sort of dramatic effect, but it definitely smacks of both arrogance and parochialism.  It’s essentially writing off the vast majority of ski areas in the country as “a joke”.  The top tier resorts in Central, and especially Northern Vermont easily compare head-to-head with the mid-tier resorts in the Rockies and throughout the west in terms of snowfall, terrain, amenities, infrastructure, etc., etc.  People are out of touch with reality if they think that skiing out west is all Whistlers, Altas, and Squaw Valleys.  But that’s the sort of stuff people see on their vacations, that’s where the “big” terrain is, and those are the spots that get all the hype.  After years of living and skiing in the Northern Rockies on what is known as some of the best “cold smoke” snow in the country, I wouldn’t have moved back to NVT if I felt the skiing wasn’t on par with the typical skiing out there.  As they seem to say in the forum, “some know, some don’t”, but for those that do know, I’m not sure how they can see PF’s reports and pictures, day after day throughout the season, and not realize the quality of the skiing on even a national scale.

I’ll be sure to remind all my friends in Montana that if they’re not skiing at Big Sky or maybe Bridger, that they’re wasting their time because the other dozen or so great ski areas in the state are just a big "joke".

The point I was making was that there is always a bigger mountain and someone skiing on it thinking all those other places "aren't doing it right" so that's not a very helpful attitude.

My original post said that it's all about what you personally enjoy. Everyone has different things they enjoy. If they are there enjoying it, then they are "doing it right."

[Ginx snewx]

33 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

The point I was making was that there is always a bigger mountain and someone skiing on it thinking all those other places "aren't doing it right" so that's not a very helpful attitude.

My original post said that it's all about what you personally enjoy. Everyone has different things they enjoy. If they are there enjoying it, then they are "doing it right."

I have skied tiny Yawgoo Valley way down in SRI and had a ball. Take me anywhere and I would make the best of it. No sno snobbery here.

[PhineasC]

7 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

I have skied tiny Yawgoo Valley way down in SRI and had a ball. Take me anywhere and I would make the best of it. No sno snobbery here.

I grew up skiing in the mid-Atlantic and loved it. 

[WestMichigan]

1 hour ago, PhineasC said:

I grew up skiing in the mid-Atlantic and loved it. 

Not from the NE, but for anyone commenting on quality of snow and the hills, try skiing in the Midwest.  You would think you are in paradise skiing just about anything in the mid-Atlantic or NE.

[greenmtnwx]

2 hours ago, PhineasC said:

I grew up skiing in the mid-Atlantic and loved it. 

Well I apologize because I was really more meaning that I felt NH is way underutilized as a ski state given the incredible mountains that are the Whites. I actually like NH in many more ways than VT because the Whites are just that more impressive. I feel bad that NH isn't what I think it could be in the ski industry. If course I still have a great time at Wildcat or Loon or WV. But VT really capitalized.

I do have to still disagree on NE vs the West though. For sure I was meaning the big resorts because when I'm there I am usually at a Big Sky or Jackson or Mammoth, but I can't compare them to VT when I come back. I mean the expansive terrain there, especially back country, and times I've skied there when they've had 100" of snow in two weeks, it's just a different animal. I love New england skiing, and it's home to me.

 

[PhineasC]

3 hours ago, greenmtnwx said:

Well I apologize because I was really more meaning that I felt NH is way underutilized as a ski state given the incredible mountains that are the Whites. I actually like NH in many more ways than VT because the Whites are just that more impressive. I feel bad that NH isn't what I think it could be in the ski industry. If course I still have a great time at Wildcat or Loon or WV. But VT really capitalized.

I do have to still disagree on NE vs the West though. For sure I was meaning the big resorts because when I'm there I am usually at a Big Sky or Jackson or Mammoth, but I can't compare them to VT when I come back. I mean the expansive terrain there, especially back country, and times I've skied there when they've had 100" of snow in two weeks, it's just a different animal. I love New england skiing, and it's home to me.

 

No worries. I get what you are trying to say.

Whenever I drive up rt 2 past Randolph I think about what it would be like to put a ski place up there. Or on the side of Adams/Madison. 

[powderfreak]

10 hours ago, PhineasC said:

My original post said that it's all about what you personally enjoy. Everyone has different things they enjoy. If they are there enjoying it, then they are "doing it right."

This 100%.  It's a big thing in the ski industry too... everyone thinks they are the best.  The adult skier learning, or anyone for that matter coming out to try skiing... it's awesome.  Let them enjoy it, have a good time.  There's no shame in trying a new activity.

Every mountain, location, weather, terrain, it's different for everyone.  I think there are a variety of circumstances that lead to people loving where they live.  New England has plenty of character across different zones.

 

[sheahunter]

On 9/23/2021 at 9:19 PM, backedgeapproaching said:

The higher elevations of Dorset and Mt Eqx definitely get more than 90" of snow, my seven year running total average here is 97.1"  Now, I'm also measuring every tenth of an inch and really not missing anything, but you can see how in the 1500-3500ft range would certainly be more.  The biggest issue by far would be the retention, which just sucks east of the spine, even at elevation on Mt Eqx and the hills around Dorset.(Although total snowfall is prob lower too)  If there were ski hills at EQX and Dorset, below 1500' would be a struggle for natural coverage some years. Mt Eqx actually does pretty well on blocked upslope flow, but again the whole Taconic range in SVT can torch all the way to the top.  Stratton, Bromley, Mt Snow, Magic, Okemo, etc all have MUCH better retention and do better on big east coast storms with E/SE flow for the most part.  Every time I look at Equinox it just screams potential, regardless of snowfall or retention.

Same here every time I drive 7.  Dorset especially has so many faces.  Does anyone backcountry there?

[mcglups]

If Wildcat was a reliable mountain for proactive snowmaking and electricity, it would probably be my favorite place as there is something relaxing and exhilarating from having a single list (that is fast) that gets you to the top of the mountain and can access 100% of the terrain. I just like the feeling of going up and knowing you can pick any run, whereas most other mountains you have to make that decision before your descent so that you go to the correct lift. There are lots of other mountains that can't have this setup (Cannon can't combine the high speed quad with the cannonball quad because the top has much more wind variation and very limited green/blue terrain from the top). All mountains are great. When in doubt, go to the mountains! 

[PhineasC]

6 minutes ago, mcglups said:

If Wildcat was a reliable mountain for proactive snowmaking and electricity, it would probably be my favorite place as there is something relaxing and exhilarating from having a single list (that is fast) that gets you to the top of the mountain and can access 100% of the terrain. I just like the feeling of going up and knowing you can pick any run, whereas most other mountains you have to make that decision before your descent so that you go to the correct lift. There are lots of other mountains that can't have this setup (Cannon can't combine the high speed quad with the cannonball quad because the top has much more wind variation and very limited green/blue terrain from the top). All mountains are great. When in doubt, go to the mountains! 

Yeah, that is a really nice feature of Wildcat for sure. I hope things are decent there this season. They need more snow, for sure.

[alex]

On 9/22/2021 at 5:59 PM, powderfreak said:

I agree, Bretton Woods is looked at in the industry as the flagship up there.  They do an Okemo level family friendly operation… good lift system and while the terrain is relatively mellow, they take great care of it through the snow surfaces department.

I’ve never skied Attitash but it has a very outspoken loyal following which surprised me.  Some of those infrastructure issues go all the way back to American Skiing Company.  There’s no doubt those two mountains have sort of just been getting sold and moved together as a package deal.  When Peak Resorts sold to VR, no doubt they were like if you want Mt Snow and Hunter you are taking these as well.

Maybe I’m an eternal optimist but I think someone at VR may realize Attitash’s potential in a way like you wrote.  I just know VR certainly prioritized certain integration steps to high visit spots like Mt Snow and Hunter.  The more that gets dialed in the more likely I think they start looking to other areas.  They like places that have potential growth so if Attitash does, they’ll find it.

Im on the same page as you with Wildcat… fantastic core mountain but without knowing for sure, I can’t imagine a prospective buyer looking at their financials and getting excited .

Attitash actually has some great terrain, but the lifts suck. Getting to the summit - which has the best terrain IMO - is an ordeal. It's disappointing that they didn't replace that summit chair, it would completely change my outlook on it. Of course they do suffer from the low base area early in the season, but it can be an awesome mountain. 

[Angus]

Attitash was the first big mountain ski area I ever went too - middle school ski trips - 40+ years ago. Never been back since HS. The complaints and perpetual frustration about the lifts at Attitash are real from regulars. I also remember talking to an older ski patroller who worked I believe at BW, Attitash and Wildcat and he was telling me about the standing joke about the 'snow hole' that was Attitash. Flip side is everyone loves the terrain when accessible and open. I have always thought the combo or Attitash and Wildcat worked well. Wildcat as a standalone operation is problematic unless the owner got it for a nickel.

[GCWarrior]

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2021/09/27/big-snow-indoor-ski-area-fire/

 

No way they it back up and running by Saturday.  They must have lost all the snow. 

[LongBeachSurfFreak]

On 9/29/2021 at 11:27 AM, GCWarrior said:

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2021/09/27/big-snow-indoor-ski-area-fire/

 

No way they it back up and running by Saturday.  They must have lost all the snow. 

Last thing that place needed. I actually had a good time when I went. I kept my expectations extremely low, and it was fun to ride off season

[PowderBeard]

I remember this time some years looking for snowmaking windows, not this year. 

Reddit does a pretty funny collection of "honest" trail maps for those interested. 

 

 

 

 

[bwt3650]

3 hours ago, PowderBeard said:

I remember this time some years looking for snowmaking windows, not this year. 

Reddit does a pretty funny collection of "honest" trail maps for those interested. 

 

 

 

 

I think it’s a safe bet an October opening at Killington is off the table.  No panic yet, but with the World Cup back this year, I would think they have to be a little nervous if the long range were to look the same 15 days from now.  They really have to string some good windows together to bury that lower half of superstar in time for those depth measurements. I know they set up about 100 guns, but I have to think that’s gotta be a lot of trail to bury to the cup standards if they don’t start by the first week of November.  

[LongBeachSurfFreak]

On 10/8/2021 at 12:45 PM, bwt3650 said:

I think it’s a safe bet an October opening at Killington is off the table.  No panic yet, but with the World Cup back this year, I would think they have to be a little nervous if the long range were to look the same 15 days from now.  They really have to string some good windows together to bury that lower half of superstar in time for those depth measurements. I know they set up about 100 guns, but I have to think that’s gotta be a lot of trail to bury to the cup standards if they don’t start by the first week of November.  

I was just thinking the exact same thing. There’s only so much water they can pump at any given time. 
I’m starting to get a little nervous about the early season. Hopefully we see a snap to much colder in November that we have seen in recent years 

[J.Spin]

2 hours ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

I’m starting to get a little nervous about the early season. Hopefully we see a snap to much colder in November that we have seen in recent years. 

Haven’t we just had five seasons in a row of Novembers with average to above average snowfall though?  We’ve also had a couple of ridiculously early starts to the winter snowpack (as in early November in the valleys) during that stretch as well.  I can’t speak specifically to the temperatures, but they can’t have been that horrible if they produced snowfall and insane valley snowpack starts like that.  Looking at my data, there hasn’t been a dud November (e.g. ’15-‘16, ‘10-‘11, ‘09-‘10, ‘06-‘07, etc.) in years, so it’s been quite an incredible run.  I’m just not sure how much better we can expect the month to be than what we’ve recently seen; a poor November is probably going to be a shock to the system after the run we’ve been on over these past several years.

[LongBeachSurfFreak]

2 hours ago, J.Spin said:

Haven’t we just had five seasons in a row of Novembers with average to above average snowfall though?  We’ve also had a couple of ridiculously early starts to the winter snowpack (as in early November in the valleys) during that stretch as well.  I can’t speak specifically to the temperatures, but they can’t have been that horrible if they produced snowfall and insane valley snowpack starts like that.  Looking at my data, there hasn’t been a dud November (e.g. ’15-‘16, ‘10-‘11, ‘09-‘10, ‘06-‘07, etc.) in years, so it’s been quite an incredible run.  I’m just not sure how much better we can expect the month to be than what we’ve recently seen; a poor November is probably going to be a shock to the system after the run we’ve been on over these past several years.

Exactly what I’m hoping for. We have had serious cold and snow in Vermont the last few Novembers. I distinctly remember thinking, wow this is more like mid winter conditions only multiple occasions. That through out west means business currently. But the rubber band can snap quick.  

[J.Spin]

21 minutes ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

Exactly what I’m hoping for. We have had serious cold and snow in Vermont the last few Novembers. I distinctly remember thinking, wow this is more like mid winter conditions only multiple occasions. That through out west means business currently. But the rubber band can snap quick.  

Agreed; it’s going to be interesting to see when we start to get those initial touches of winter.  An October with below average temperatures is fine because it typically offers the potential of getting a few days in on early snow, but an above average October is also great, since it can produce some days with perfect weather for outdoor activities.  It’s rare for October snow/cold to carry right into the start of the actual season without a lapse, although it has happened when the cold comes at the very end of the month.  November is a different animal though, in that a cold start there can easily mean the real beginning of the winter season.

[Sugarloaf1989]

I'm thinking about trying adaptive skiing this Winter.  Really miss being able to ski. My problem is getting off the chairlift. Suddenly I have no leg support and fall down.  Skiing the trail itself isn't a problem. 

[alex]

1 hour ago, Sugarloaf1989 said:

I'm thinking about trying adaptive skiing this Winter.  Really miss being able to ski. My problem is getting off the chairlift. Suddenly I have no leg support and fall down.  Skiing the trail itself isn't a problem. 

I’m so sorry to hear that. I hope you find a way to get out and enjoy! Would having a gondola help?

[Ginx snewx]

10 hours ago, Sugarloaf1989 said:

I'm thinking about trying adaptive skiing this Winter.  Really miss being able to ski. My problem is getting off the chairlift. Suddenly I have no leg support and fall down.  Skiing the trail itself isn't a problem. 

Sunday River has an excellent adaptive skiing program.  Best to you