sojitodd Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 2 hours ago, MN Transplant said: The 5 minute obs are rounded and converted from F to C to F, which makes them problematic to take at face value. They can be a degree off. Actually, I made a thread about it a while ago: Interesting. I see that for Portland they had a five minute temp at one point of 117 at 5:30 pm but I guess that got rounded down to 115 too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojitodd Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Lytton BC made it to 47.9C -over 118F!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Smith Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Just looking at the 00z 500 mb chart, it shows 597 dm high right over my location. I for one welcome our alien visitors. There's a slug of 594-97 thickness shown over south central OR and the 588 dm thickness is basically overlapping the 594 dm height oval (except in the southern portion where it continues south into CA). The GEG sounding has a -4C temp at 500 mb. The 850 mb chart has readings in the mid 30s but you have to keep in mind most of southern BC except for valley floors is land up to and even above the 850 mb elevation, where I live is probably around 900 mb. So my 42 C air temp would be a 900 mb temp I suppose. The nearby ski hill is probably within shouting distance of 850 mb and up there it is probably around 35-37 C. Took some pictures during the heat to illustrate this thread (a picture is worth a hundred words in my case). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 45 minutes ago, sojitodd said: Interesting. I see that for Portland they had a five minute temp at one point of 117 at 5:30 pm but I guess that got rounded down to 115 too. Final high was 116. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Weather summary for Alberta issued by Environment Canada at 3:02 p.m. MDT Monday 28 June 2021. Discussion. As the historic heat wave continues to push into Alberta, more daytime high records were broken. Of note, Grande Prairie, Hendrickson Creek and Jasper set all-time maximum temperature records. Temperatures in degrees Celsius: Grande Prairie Area New Record 36.1 Old Record 35.6 set on July 22 2006 Records in this area have been kept since 1922 Hendrickson Creek Area New Record 34.5 Old Record 31.4 set on July 22 2006 Records in this area have been kept since 1995 Jasper Area New record of 37.3 Old record of 36.7 set on July 16 and July 17 1941 Records in this area have been kept since 1916 The following areas will have set a daily maximum temperature record on Sunday June 27, 2021. Temperatures in degrees Celsius: Banff Area New record of 33.0 Old record of 32.2 set in 1925 Records in this area have been kept since 1887 Beaverlodge Area New record of 35.7 Old record of 29.4 set in 1912 Records in this area have been kept since 1912 Bow Valley New record of 32.2 Old record of 31.8 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1928 Cochrane Area New record of 30.2 Old record of 29.5 set in 2002 Records in this area have been kept since 1984 Edson Area New record of 33.4 Old record of 31.7 set in 2006 Records in this area have been kept since 1916 Grande Prairie Area New record record of 36.1 Old record of 29.3 set in 2006 Records in this area have been kept since 1922 Hendrickson Creek Area New record record of 34.5 Old record of 29.2 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1995 High Level Area New record of 32.4 Old record of 29.9 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1962 Jasper Area New record of 37.3 Old record of 34.4 set in 1925 Records in this area have been kept since 1916 Nordegg Area New record of 32.6 Old record of 29.5 set in 2006 Records in this area have been kept since 1915 Red Earth Creek Area New record of 32.7 Old record of 31.3 set in 2006 Records in this area have been kept since 1994 Rocky Mountain House Area New record of 29.6 Old record of 29.1 set in 2006 Records in this area have been kept since 1915 Slave Lake Area New record of 31.2 Old record of 29.4 set in 2006 Records in this area have been kept since 1922 Whitecourt Area New record of 31.7 Old record of 30.9 set in 2006 Records in this area have been kept since 1942 Please note that this summary may contain preliminary or unofficial information and does not constitute a complete or final report. End/PASPC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Weather summary for British Columbia issued by Environment Canada at 5:36 p.m. PDT Monday 28 June 2021. Discussion. The following data is preliminary and will be updated later tonight The following areas will have set a daily maximum temperature record on June 28, 2021: Abbotsford Area (Abbotsford A) Preliminary new record of 42.9 Old record of 32.4 set in 2008 Records in this area have been kept since 1944 Agassiz Area (Agassiz RCS) Preliminary new record of 41.1 Old record of 33.3 set in 1895 Records in this area have been kept since 1889 Bella Bella Area (Bella Bella) Preliminary new record of 35.8 Old record of 29.6 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1977 Bella Coola Area (Bella Coola Airport) Preliminary new record of 36.9 Old record of 33.2 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1895 Blue River Area (Blue River CS) Preliminary new record of 38.7 Old record of 35.9 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1946 Burns Lake Area (Burns Lake Decker Lake) Preliminary new record of 37.2 Old record of 30.7 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1949 Cache Creek Area (Ashcroft) Preliminary new record of 45.7 Old record of 40.6 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1944 Clearwater Area (Clearwater Auto) Preliminary new record of 43.7 Old record of 38.3 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1913 Clinton Area (Clinton RCS) Preliminary new record of 39.5 Old record of 32.8 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1974 Comox Area (Comox A) Preliminary new record of 36.5 Old record of 31.2 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1914 Courtenay Area (Comox A) Preliminary new record of 36.5 Old record of 31.2 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1914 Cranbrook Area (Cranbrook A) Preliminary new record of 38.4 Old record of 36.8 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1901 Creston Area (Creston Campbell Scientific) Preliminary new record of 39.8 Old record of 38.1 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1912 Dawson Creek Area (Dawson Creek A) Preliminary new record of 38.1 Old record of 27.8 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1926 Dease Lake Area (Dease Lake (AUT)) Preliminary new record of 32.0 Old record of 29.5 set in 1992 Records in this area have been kept since 1944 Esquimalt Area (Victoria Gonzales CS) Preliminary new record of 39.8 Old record of 30.5 set in 1995 Records in this area have been kept since 1874 Estevan Point Area (Estevan Point CS) Preliminary new record of 30.5 Old record of 24.0 set in 1995 Records in this area have been kept since 1908 Fort Nelson Area (Fort Nelson) Preliminary new record of 34.4 Old record of 30.2 set in 1982 Records in this area have been kept since 1937 Fort St. John Area (Fort St. John A) Preliminary new record of 36.3 Old record of 27.9 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1910 Gibsons Area (Sechelt Aut) Preliminary new record of 40.1 Old record of 29.6 set in 2008 Records in this area have been kept since 1949 Golden Area (Golden Airport) Preliminary new record of 37.3 Old record of 36.0 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1902 Hope Area (Hope Airport) Preliminary new record of 41.4 Old record of 34.4 set in 1951 Records in this area have been kept since 1936 Kamloops Area (Kamloops A) Preliminary new record of 45.8 Old record of 39.1 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1890 Kelowna Area (Kelowna UBCO) Preliminary new record of 42.9 Old record of 39.5 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1899 Lillooet Area (Lillooet) Preliminary new record of 45.6 Old record of 39.3 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1917 Lytton Area (Lytton RCS) Preliminary new record of 47.9 Old record of 39.6 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1921 Mackenzie Area (Mackenzie Airport Auto) Preliminary new record of 38.6 Old record of 29.8 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1971 Malahat Area (Malahat) Preliminary new record of 41.3 Old record of 32.4 set in 1995 Records in this area have been kept since 1986 Merritt Area (Merritt) Preliminary new record of 43.2 Old record of 39.2 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1918 Nakusp Area (Nakusp CS) Preliminary new record of 37.9 Old record of 37.3 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1966 Nelson Area (Nelson CS) Preliminary new record of 38.0 Old record of 37.2 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1904 Osoyoos Area (Osoyoos CS) Preliminary new record of 42.7 Old record of 37.7 set in 2000 Records in this area have been kept since 1954 Pemberton Area (Pemberton Airport CS) Preliminary new record of 43.2 Old record of 37.2 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1908 Penticton Area (Penticton A) Preliminary new record of 42.5 Old record of 36.4 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1907 Pitt Meadows Area (Pitt Meadows CS) Preliminary new record of 41.1 Old record of 33.0 set in 1987 Records in this area have been kept since 1874 Port Alberni Area (Port Alberni (AUT)) Preliminary new record of 42.7 Old record of 36.5 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1900 Powell River Area (Powell River) Preliminary new record of 38.4 Old record of 30.6 set in 1951 Records in this area have been kept since 1924 Prince George Area (Prince George Airport Auto) Preliminary new record of 38.4 Old record of 30.0 set in 1938 Records in this area have been kept since 1912 Prince Rupert Area (Prince Rupert) Preliminary new record of 27.6 Old record of 22.7 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1908 Princeton Area (Princeton CS) Preliminary new record of 42.7 Old record of 38.0 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1893 Puntzi Mountain Area (Puntzi Mountain (AUT)) Preliminary new record of 39.2 Old record of 32.9 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1959 Quesnel Area (Quesnel Airport Auto) Preliminary new record of 41.1 Old record of 34.4 set in 1896 Records in this area have been kept since 1893 Sandspit Area (Sandspit Airport Auto) Preliminary new record of 26.2 Old record of 21.7 set in 1951 Records in this area have been kept since 1945 Sechelt Area (Sechelt Aut) Preliminary new record of 40.1 Old record of 29.6 set in 2008 Records in this area have been kept since 1956 Smithers Area (Smithers Airport Auto) Preliminary new record of 36.6 Old record of 29.3 set in 1987 Records in this area have been kept since 1938 Squamish Area (Squamish Airport) Preliminary new record of 43.0 Old record of 34.3 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1960 Summerland Area (Summerland CS) Preliminary new record of 40.1 Old record of 36.1 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1907 Tatlayoko Lake Area (Tatlayoko Lake RCS) Preliminary new record of 37.8 Old record of 33.3 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1930 Terrace Area (Terrace A) Preliminary new record of 35.4 Old record of 30.9 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1912 Trail Area (Warfield RCS) Preliminary new record of 42.5 Old record of 41.1 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1928 Vancouver Area (Vancouver Intl A) Preliminary new record of 31.7 Old record of 27.5 set in 1995 Records in this area have been kept since 1896 Vernon Area (Vernon Auto) Preliminary new record of 42.3 Old record of 39.3 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1900 Victoria Area (Victoria Intl A) Preliminary new record of 39.4 Old record of 30.5 set in 1995 Records in this area have been kept since 1914 Victoria Gonzales Point Area (Victoria Gonzales CS) Preliminary new record of 39.8 Old record of 30.5 set in 1995 Records in this area have been kept since 1874 Whistler Area (Whistler - Nesters) Preliminary new record of 41.1 Old record of 35.6 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1950 White Rock Area (White Rock Campbell Scientific) Preliminary new record of 38.5 Old record of 29.0 set in 2008 Records in this area have been kept since 1929 Williams Lake Area (Williams Lake A) Preliminary new record of 38.6 Old record of 31.6 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1960 Yoho (National Park) Area (Yoho Park) Preliminary new record of 34.9 Old record of 31.3 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1923 Note: the temperature records reported here have been derived from a selection of historical stations in each geographic area that were active during the period of record. Please note that this summary may contain preliminary or unofficial information and does not constitute a complete or final report. End/PSPC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Weather summary for the Northwest Territories issued by Environment Canada at 3:00 p.m. MDT Monday 28 June 2021. Discussion. The heat wave continues to break records across the western Northwest Territories. Of note, Nahanni Butte Area set an all-time maximum temperature record. Temperatures in Degrees Celsius: New record of 38.1 Old record of 36.7 set on July 13, 2014 Records in this area have been kept since 1957 The following areas will have set a daily maximum temperature record on Sunday June 27, 2021. Temperatures in Degrees Celsius: Enterprise Area New record of 33.2 Old record of 29.2 set in 2015 Records in this area have been kept since 1943 Fort Liard Area New record of 35.2 Old record of 29.7 set in 2000 Records in this area have been kept since 1973 Fort Providence Area New record of 35.6 Old record of 30.6 set in 1943 Records in this area have been kept since 1943 Fort Simpson Area New record of 34.4 Old record of 29.8 set in 1983 Records in this area have been kept since 1895 Hay River Area New record of 33.2 Old record of 31.7 set in 1925 Records in this area have been kept since 1893 Nahanni Butte Area New record of 38.1 Old record of 30.5 set in 2014 Records in this area have been kept since 1957 Please note that this summary may contain preliminary or unofficial information and does not constitute a complete or final report. End/PASPC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Weather summary for Yukon issued by Environment Canada at 5:36 p.m. MST Monday 28 June 2021. Discussion. The following data is preliminary and will be updated later tonight if there are any changes. The following areas will have set a daily maximum temperature record on June 28, 2021: Faro Area (Faro (AUT)) Preliminary new record of 29.8 Old record of 28.7 set in 2004 Records in this area have been kept since 1966 Haines Junction Area (Haines Junction) Preliminary new record of 28.1 Old record of 27.2 set in 1976 Records in this area have been kept since 1944 Teslin Area (Teslin (AUT)) Preliminary new record of 30.7 Old record of 28.5 set in 1992 Records in this area have been kept since 1943 Watson Lake Area (Watson Lake) Preliminary new record of 33.0 Old record of 27.8 set in 1946 Records in this area have been kept since 1938 Whitehorse Area (Whitehorse Auto) Preliminary new record of 30.3 Old record of 28.8 set in 1992 Records in this area have been kept since 1940 Note: the temperature records reported here have been derived from a selection of historical stations in each geographic area that were active during the period of record. Please note that this summary may contain preliminary or unofficial information and does not constitute a complete or final report. End/PSPC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 12 hours ago, donsutherland1 said: IMO, that's a landmark paper that retains its value today. To put things into perspective, the 102-degree reading in Seattle is just over 3.4 sigma over the 1991-2020 average summer maximum temperature. It would be nearly 3.65 sigma over the 1951-80 numbers. In sum, that event is more than twice as likely (nearly 2.35 times as likely) in today's climate as it was in the earlier climate regime. Don, do you think this kind of extreme heat will move the needle towards something more aggressive than the Paris Climate Treaty? I would hope so- it's definitely not enough. I remember when we discussed how much better it was in the 70s and 80s, but now I doubt thats true, I just saw the PBS documentary on how Agent Orange and Dioxin were being sprayed in Oregon in the 70s and 80s and both Dow Chemical and our own EPA were covering up its toxicity and the resulting birth defects and high rate of miscarriages there. The residents were even being threatened for speaking up about it and four children were killed when a fire was set (possibly by people hired by Dow or the timber company that sprayed those toxic chemicals to clear the brush.) Dow and others like Monsanto/Bayer later moved on to spray other toxic chemicals or concoctions that mixed different chemicals that still result in death of wildlife or mutations that affect both humans and other animals as well as higher rates of cancer. A county in Oregon got it banned in 2017 but a higher court overturned that in 2019 saying the county couldn't go against the state. I'm very skeptical of proper reform until the entire system is overturned.....the chemical industry is just as bad as the fossil fuel industry and we need changes to our political system and economic system on a very fundamental level to see any longlasting reforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 wow this is a lot of information....I just want six basic pieces of data.... 1) what was the highest temp in Seattle and the highest temp in WA as a whole that was recorded 2) what was the highest temp in Portland and the highest temp in OR as a whole that was recorded 3) what is the new all time record high for the nation of Canada 4) as far as the US is concerned, what was the highest temp recorded during this entire heatwave and where was it (both including and not including Death Valley) 5) did any location right at the coast hit 100 6) as to any of the above, could any of these be exceeded tomorrow? so far what I have is 108 at Seattle, 116 at Portland, 118 as the highest temps recorded in WA, OR and Canada and 128 at Death Valley and 123 at Palm Springs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 5 hours ago, sojitodd said: Lytton BC made it to 47.9C -over 118F!!! Maybe some place in Canada actually hit 120?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 5 hours ago, donsutherland1 said: Seattle finished with a high of 108. https://twitter.com/NWSSeattle/status/1409688733247438850 Don did any location right at the coast hit 100? I was thinking they might.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimB Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 2 hours ago, LibertyBell said: Don did any location right at the coast hit 100? I was thinking they might.... Astoria, OR topped out at 101. Is that considered “right at the coast”? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 2 hours ago, bluewave said: The most extreme record yesterday was the 110° temperature at Quillayute, WA. That smashed that location's previous all-time record of 99°, which was set on August 9, 1981, and was an almost unfathomable 6.183σ departure from the normal summer high temperature (1991-2020 climate period). An equivalent standardized departure at Central Park would be 126°. Hoquiam’s record on Sunday was an even more extreme 6.196σ departure. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 4 hours ago, LibertyBell said: Don did any location right at the coast hit 100? I was thinking they might.... On Sunday, Hoquiam hit 103°. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 5 hours ago, LibertyBell said: Don, do you think this kind of extreme heat will move the needle towards something more aggressive than the Paris Climate Treaty? I would hope so- it's definitely not enough. I remember when we discussed how much better it was in the 70s and 80s, but now I doubt thats true, I just saw the PBS documentary on how Agent Orange and Dioxin were being sprayed in Oregon in the 70s and 80s and both Dow Chemical and our own EPA were covering up its toxicity and the resulting birth defects and high rate of miscarriages there. The residents were even being threatened for speaking up about it and four children were killed when a fire was set (possibly by people hired by Dow or the timber company that sprayed those toxic chemicals to clear the brush.) Dow and others like Monsanto/Bayer later moved on to spray other toxic chemicals or concoctions that mixed different chemicals that still result in death of wildlife or mutations that affect both humans and other animals as well as higher rates of cancer. A county in Oregon got it banned in 2017 but a higher court overturned that in 2019 saying the county couldn't go against the state. I'm very skeptical of proper reform until the entire system is overturned.....the chemical industry is just as bad as the fossil fuel industry and we need changes to our political system and economic system on a very fundamental level to see any longlasting reforms. I don’t think so. I’m concerned that the will for concrete action is weakening in Washington. No matter how it is spun, the bipartisan infrastructure bill’s being decoupled with climate change-related legislation is a major step backward. While it has a few modest climate items, it is not a credible downpayment toward net zero emissions by 2030. The youth demonstrating outside the White House yesterday have legitimate reason for concern. Absent credible legislation, U.S. COP26 commitments will be hollow. Promises not backed by concrete substance are wishes. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 56 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said: The most extreme record yesterday was the 110° temperature at Quillayute, WA. That smashed that location's previous all-time record of 99°, which was set on August 9, 1981, and was an almost unfathomable 6.183σ departure from the normal summer high temperature (1991-2020 climate period). An equivalent standardized departure at Central Park would be 126°. Hoquiam’s record on Sunday was an even more extreme 6.196σ departure. This tweet makes a very good point. We probably need to be thinking more about nonlinear and threshold effects from climate change. It introduces challenges for adaptation given how we recently passed +1C of warming. The current emissions trajectory puts us on track for the +2C to +3C range by later in the century. These current extremes are difficult enough just passing the +1C threashold. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 40 minutes ago, bluewave said: This tweet makes a very good point. We probably need to be thinking more about nonlinear and threshold effects from climate change. It introduces challenges for adaptation given how we recently passed +1C of warming. The current emissions trajectory puts us on track for the +2C to +3C range by later in the century. These current extremes are difficult enough just passing the +1C threashold. I agree. The nonlinear impacts can be consequential, yet they are difficult to identify. So far, the extremes have been greater than what one might assume from a linear relationship between warming and related extremes. This early experience should encourage society to be cautious about letting things move toward a 2C or 3C warming. If one recalls, the March 2012 heat produced some 5 sigma deviations. Now, part of the country has just witnessed what such extremes look like in the summer. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-K Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 we aren't even trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimB Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 So what’s the deal with the 119 in Pendleton, OR in 1898? Is there some debate as to its legitimacy? Some sources mention it, but many sources use the 117 as the all time record. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Cooling shelter in Portland: https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1409534554927517700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Smith Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 In terms of the social or political response to the climate change aspect, you're going to find a certain amount of mission fatigue there, in BC we have been paying large carbon taxes for ten years, our electricity grid here is almost all hydro-electric (no coal-fired plants involved) and there has been a considerable move to electric and hybrid vehicles. Urban bus fleets have been converted to natural gas. A common theme in everyday discussion about this is that we have done our share but other signatories to international conventions either have not or they are exempt while they develop. I could also say that about half the population would probably agree that the heat wave is "largely" caused by AGW, while the other half probably take the position that this is a natural event maybe warmed up by 1-2 degrees. If the latter, then what can be done? This would be every bit as bad at 116 as at 118, so people take the position that maybe adaptation is more realistic than prevention if there is a natural component to this that we cannot influence. I have been trying to find ways of answering this rather thorny question, by analyzing a ton of climate data for various locations, and have to admit that there is no easy answer, climate has always had this tendency to push limits and extremes. The 1936 heat wave must rank as a greater "singularity" than this event, which introduces the question of why that happened when it did, and whether it might repeat. A sort of weak effort to repeat it in 1995 turned out more humid which seemed to cap the extremity of temperatures although I recall humidex values in Iowa and Illinois which were probably equally oppressive, I mean would you rather have 110/75 or 102/89 temp dew point? This dry heat is considerably more tolerable from a physiological point of view, even with this degree of heat here now, I used to feel more uncomfortable with average summer heat in Ontario where the dew points were a lot higher. Many people in the Pac NW and BC travel south at various times, including the summer in some cases, so these temperatures are probably familiar to most of us. I was in Las Vegas in August 2011 (flew in to start a holiday in less brutally hot higher parts of Utah) and it was close to their all-time high, 116 F at both ends of our trip. So with it being 108 F here yesterday, I had that reference point and what I recall was that it cooled down even less at night in Las Vegas (actually in Mesquite to be precise about the overnight) with a "low" of about 90 F. Personally I think people will probably go along with whatever responses governments choose to make but obviously they can't just shut down entire economies on the spot, the problems that would create would be thousands of times worse than these occasional climate episodes. And we could predict what would happen to political parties that tried that approach, especially in some environment where China and India were given a pass and allowed to continue with their high polluting ways. I would note also that while all this talk goes on, we have missed a chance to go into major desalination projects that would at least solve growing water problems in the western U.S., and I don't understand (from a distance) how high speed trains that cost billions of dollars form a better use of public money than major desalination projects might do. The same could be said about a lot of things that money is wasted on in this world. Expecting an even hotter day here today as the heat dome has shifted towards north Idaho so we're in that zone with a slight southerly flow aloft now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 2 hours ago, TimB84 said: So what’s the deal with the 119 in Pendleton, OR in 1898? Is there some debate as to its legitimacy? Some sources mention it, but many sources use the 117 as the all time record. 119 is the official value unless the State Climate Extremes Committee rules otherwise. Below are the official values: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/extremes/scec/records 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimB Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 55 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said: 119 is the official value unless the State Climate Extremes Committee rules otherwise. Below are the official values: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/extremes/scec/records Thank you. I understand that it is extremely hard to get records from the 1800s and early 1900s stricken from the record books, even if there is solid evidence they’re flawed. I would guess that deniers would have a fit if such revisions were made regularly. The 134 at Death Valley is another example of this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN Transplant Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 59 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said: 119 is the official value unless the State Climate Extremes Committee rules otherwise. Below are the official values: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/extremes/scec/records Early on, it looks like eyes will be on Pendleton again today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimB Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 6 minutes ago, MN Transplant said: Early on, it looks like eyes will be on Pendleton again today. hopefully they have a different person keeping the records today than they did in 1898. He may be long gone, but his legacy still stands in the form of a record that is possibly not legitimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 17 minutes ago, TimB84 said: Thank you. I understand that it is extremely hard to get records from the 1800s and early 1900s stricken from the record books, even if there is solid evidence they’re flawed. I would guess that deniers would have a fit if such revisions were made regularly. The 134 at Death Valley is another example of this. I agree. The Death Valley readings are very likely flawed. The evidence that I have seen is strong. It might take a few years, but my guess is the 1917 figures will likely be eliminated within the next 5-10 years (but perhaps beaten before they are eliminated). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Smith Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Were some of those vintage temperatures not properly screened? I have been working with various long-term data sets and have seen many discussions of how to compare them. Part of the problem is we can't always be sure how much modification was created (and should therefore be eliminated). Death Valley's 134 record was in 1913, I thought. So we're saying that may have only been 128 to 131? Seems logical because at better situated long-term locations, highest values from the 1911-20 decade, while impressive, run 2-3 lower than the 1930s at many locations. For example, Toronto had 103F in July 1911 and 100F in July 1916. It had 105F in July 1936. As far as I know these readings were taken from the same thermometers at the same location (in downtown Toronto). What's interesting is that Toronto has hit 100F about a dozen times, only one of those is since 1953 (2011). It is warmer nights making the bulk of the recent warming (this does not apply to winter as much, more daytime records have fallen then, especially late Nov-early Dec and late Feb- early March). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 38 minutes ago, Roger Smith said: Were some of those vintage temperatures not properly screened? I have been working with various long-term data sets and have seen many discussions of how to compare them. Part of the problem is we can't always be sure how much modification was created (and should therefore be eliminated). Death Valley's 134 record was in 1913, I thought. So we're saying that may have only been 128 to 131? Seems logical because at better situated long-term locations, highest values from the 1911-20 decade, while impressive, run 2-3 lower than the 1930s at many locations. For example, Toronto had 103F in July 1911 and 100F in July 1916. It had 105F in July 1936. As far as I know these readings were taken from the same thermometers at the same location (in downtown Toronto). What's interesting is that Toronto has hit 100F about a dozen times, only one of those is since 1953 (2011). It is warmer nights making the bulk of the recent warming (this does not apply to winter as much, more daytime records have fallen then, especially late Nov-early Dec and late Feb- early March). Here’s weather historian Christopher Burt’s blog on the Death Valley temperatures: https://www.wunderground.com/blog/weatherhistorian/an-investigation-of-death-valleys-134f-world-temperature-record.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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