Itstrainingtime Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 46 minutes ago, Mount Joy Snowman said: The other annoying thing with MDT.........take last night for instance, which seemed to be a bit of an inversion night and explains why I dropped to 48 despite some stations right near me but higher up only hitting ~52, and why @mahantango#1 dipped to 42. Well, MDT would normally be a perfect spot to capture those inversion temps, being so low-lying right off the ridges and all, but it seems to be completely negated by some combo of the damn airport/river presence. All I know is they always stay warmer than surrounding locations, always. I digress.... I said this a year or 2 ago when we were talking about MDT's readings. I drive the river route to Conestoga every day, and it's usually a few degrees warmer RIGHT along the river on 441 than it is away from the water. That, combined with all of the asphalt makes their reading completely believable to me. (at least the warmer night temps compared to those surrounding HIA) I flew out of HIA one morning in 2018 when there was about 2" of fresh, but very wet snow at the 283/Airport connector exit. Those who know it realize that it's only about 1.5-2 miles from the terminal and the river. That morning, by the time my wife dropped me off at Departures...there was no evidence that it had snowed. It was too warm to accumulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itstrainingtime Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Bubbler86 said: Welcome to the "Not MDT" club. 3K Nam scored the victory last night. Sweet, sweet 40's in the middle of the summer. Ssshhh - don't let anyone here know this, but I MIGHT have had a sweatshirt on last evening when i was outside for a while... I was still in shorts though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Joy Snowman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 46 minutes ago, Bubbler86 said: And its usually mostly the cold temps they are high on. The other day when Training got to 95, MDT's highest recording was 92. Indeed it is usually the lows that run high. 38 minutes ago, mahantango#1 said: When the NWS had an office in the city of Harrisburg where were the Temps taken then? I think that office closed up about 35 years maybe. I posted an article a while back detailing the history of the Harrisburg climate site and just how much it's moved around, will have to see if I can find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Joy Snowman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Itstrainingtime said: I said this a year or 2 ago when we were talking about MDT's readings. I drive the river route to Conestoga every day, and it's usually a few degrees warmer RIGHT along the river on 441 than it is away from the water. That, combined with all of the asphalt makes their reading completely believable to me. (at least the warmer night temps compared to those surrounding HIA) I flew out of HIA one morning in 2018 when there was about 2" of fresh, but very wet snow at the 283/Airport connector exit. Those who know it realize that it's only about 1.5-2 miles from the terminal and the river. That morning, by the time my wife dropped me off at Departures...there was no evidence that it had snowed. It was too warm to accumulate. Oh yes I completely believe their readings, just frustrated that a microclimate like that with a number of unusual influences gets to be the official record keeper and climate bearer of our entire local region. It's just not very representative of the region at-large, but hey, nothing we can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Joy Snowman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, Mount Joy Snowman said: Indeed it is usually the lows that run high. I posted an article a while back detailing the history of the Harrisburg climate site and just how much it's moved around, will have to see if I can find it. Found it! https://www.weather.gov/media/ctp/ClimateStationHistory/Harrisburg LCD Site History.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itstrainingtime Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Mount Joy Snowman said: Oh yes I completely believe their readings, just frustrated that a microclimate like that with a number of unusual influences gets to be the official record keeper and climate bearer of our entire local region. It's just not very representative of the region at-large, but hey, nothing we can do about it. We can be proud that we have our own small-scale version of DCA right up the road from us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbler86 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Itstrainingtime said: We can be proud that we have our own small-scale version of DCA right up the road from us. Just disappointing we use it for record comparing with previous years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbler86 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Mount Joy Snowman said: Found it! https://www.weather.gov/media/ctp/ClimateStationHistory/Harrisburg LCD Site History.pdf So any records post 1991 are tainted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimB Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bubbler86 said: So any records post 1991 are tainted. That would include the all-time record low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Joy Snowman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Mount Joy Snowman said: Found it! https://www.weather.gov/media/ctp/ClimateStationHistory/Harrisburg LCD Site History.pdf Clear as mud haha.....also here is my favorite part, so basically we weren't getting accurate snow measurements at MDT until 2010 sheesh..... ASOS was commissioned on March 31st, 1995, which brings us to the present. The ASOS unit was placed at a distance of approximately 600 meters northwest of the KMDT tower. ASOS does not measure snow and for years the maintenance department measured snow to keep the snow records/climatology going. The maintenance people were busiest during snow storms though, and the measurements were low on their list of priorities. Therefore, the measurements were often taken well after the last flakes had fallen and the wind had increased enough to make measuring the new snow fall difficult. The measurements were, at times, unreliable as a result. On February 8th, 2010, the Observing Program Leader from the National Weather Service (NWS) Weather Forecast Office (WFO) in State College (CTP) provided the equipment and the training necessary to the FAA-contracted weather office in the Middletown Tower and the reliability of snowfall measurements returned. The HIA/KMDT site is the current Local Climatological Data (LCD) site for Harrisburg, PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itstrainingtime Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Mount Joy Snowman said: Clear as mud haha.....also here is my favorite part, so basically we weren't getting accurate snow measurements at MDT until 2010 sheesh..... ASOS was commissioned on March 31st, 1995, which brings us to the present. The ASOS unit was placed at a distance of approximately 600 meters northwest of the KMDT tower. ASOS does not measure snow and for years the maintenance department measured snow to keep the snow records/climatology going. The maintenance people were busiest during snow storms though, and the measurements were low on their list of priorities. Therefore, the measurements were often taken well after the last flakes had fallen and the wind had increased enough to make measuring the new snow fall difficult. The measurements were, at times, unreliable as a result. On February 8th, 2010, the Observing Program Leader from the National Weather Service (NWS) Weather Forecast Office (WFO) in State College (CTP) provided the equipment and the training necessary to the FAA-contracted weather office in the Middletown Tower and the reliability of snowfall measurements returned. The HIA/KMDT site is the current Local Climatological Data (LCD) site for Harrisburg, PA. For the days we live in and the technology that we have, that is a horrible way to produce recordkeeping. Wow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbler86 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Mount Joy Snowman said: Clear as mud haha.....also here is my favorite part, so basically we weren't getting accurate snow measurements at MDT until 2010 sheesh..... ASOS was commissioned on March 31st, 1995, which brings us to the present. The ASOS unit was placed at a distance of approximately 600 meters northwest of the KMDT tower. ASOS does not measure snow and for years the maintenance department measured snow to keep the snow records/climatology going. The maintenance people were busiest during snow storms though, and the measurements were low on their list of priorities. Therefore, the measurements were often taken well after the last flakes had fallen and the wind had increased enough to make measuring the new snow fall difficult. The measurements were, at times, unreliable as a result. On February 8th, 2010, the Observing Program Leader from the National Weather Service (NWS) Weather Forecast Office (WFO) in State College (CTP) provided the equipment and the training necessary to the FAA-contracted weather office in the Middletown Tower and the reliability of snowfall measurements returned. The HIA/KMDT site is the current Local Climatological Data (LCD) site for Harrisburg, PA. This would mean Joe the Mechanic recorded the Blizzard of '96. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbler86 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, TimB84 said: That would include the all-time record low. We should get pitchforks in hand and storm HIA squared. (Well maybe just us locals, not sure you are THAT interested in MDT -ha) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimB Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Just now, Bubbler86 said: We should get pitchforks in hand and storm HIA. (Well maybe just us locals, not sure you are THAT interested in MDT -ha) I’m interested in the sanctity of weather records, whether it be PIT, MDT, Antarctica, or the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Joy Snowman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Itstrainingtime said: For the days we live in and the technology that we have, that is a horrible way to produce recordkeeping. Wow... It really is haha, and just generally, even prior to that period, it seemed like a complete shit show of record keeping for Harrisburg. Aye aye aye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canderson Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Meanwhile out west - Seattle probably hits 100 Saturday, Sunday and Monday. it’s only hit 100 there 3 times in the last century. Wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstorm Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Oh yes I completely believe their readings, just frustrated that a microclimate like that with a number of unusual influences gets to be the official record keeper and climate bearer of our entire local region. It's just not very representative of the region at-large, but hey, nothing we can do about it.This argument can be made for many stations, especially those stations near a river and tarmac.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Joy Snowman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Superstorm said: This argument can be made for many stations, especially those stations near a river and tarmac. . Oh don't I know it, but MDT seems to be a particularly egregious example of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbler86 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Mount Joy Snowman said: Oh don't I know it, but MDT seems to be a particularly egregious example of it. MDT is the one we are qualified to argue about :-). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbler86 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, TimB84 said: I’m interested in the sanctity of weather records, whether it be PIT, MDT, Antarctica, or the moon. Understood. How much for Montes Apenninus? We will just have to live with trying to set records we know are flawed. Sort of like betting on a game that Tim Donaghy is officiating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahantango#1 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 47 minutes ago, Mount Joy Snowman said: Found it! https://www.weather.gov/media/ctp/ClimateStationHistory/Harrisburg LCD Site History.pdf That's a lot of moving around, so every location would probably give different data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFreeze6298 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 2 hours ago, mahantango#1 said: Outside of Dalmatia. I live at in a valley that the elevation of the mountain is 1109 ft my elevation is about 450 ft.with a sizeable creek. So in the winter it gets cold in the summer it gets toasty. okay there is a weather station at your location? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Joy Snowman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Back to some current weather talk......gonna be a beautiful few days, high pressure in control, enjoy it boys! (or ladies if there are any lurking out there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbler86 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Just now, Mount Joy Snowman said: Back to some current weather talk......gonna be a beautiful few days, high pressure in control, enjoy it boys! (or ladies if there are any lurking out there) A nice break for the electric bill. 75 today and a shot at 40's again tonight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jns2183 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 MDT is the one we are qualified to argue about :-). I go on vacation and I miss the one topic I’m overqualified on. Haha. Just be happy KMDT does not have the rainshawdow (snowshawdow) effect it’s previous location had. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbler86 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 28 minutes ago, Jns2183 said: I go on vacation and I miss the one topic I’m overqualified on. Haha. Just be happy KMDT does not have the rainshawdow (snowshawdow) effect it’s previous location had. . You mean putting a weather station directly below the Eastern side peak is not a good idea? The rainshadow effect helped exasperate the great 2020 Drought in the 'Ville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Joy Snowman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Bubbler86 said: You mean putting a weather station directly below the Eastern side peak is not a good idea? The rainshadow effect helped exasperate the great 2020 Drought in the 'Ville. Hey how do you think we get all those awesome Death Valley readings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFreeze6298 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 @Bubbler86 Good morning American friend, tomorrow morning we are expecting some morning coolness in the North West of France, sometimes temperatures will be below 40°F while in the afternoon we will be above 70°F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahantango#1 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 hour ago, MrFreeze6298 said: okay there is a weather station at your location? Where do you look for them at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFreeze6298 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, mahantango#1 said: Where do you look for them at? weatherundergrond or NWS sorry I live in France Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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