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3 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Do you realize that even if every American was vaccinated, someone can just hop off a plane from Africa or Asia and bring a variant here?

That's how they keep getting outbreaks in Australia. They are not all vaccinated, but they are shut down. It's coming in via travel and trade.

you and tippy should Co-Author a book.

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11 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

The CDC mysteriously decided to stop tracking mild and moderate breakthrough cases back in May, so we have zero idea how much spread is coming from the vaccinated. Data from Israel and the UK says it is much higher than we seem to think in this country.

Because vast majority of breakthrough cases don't lead to hospitalization or death, the 2 biggest indicators of the severity of pandemic.  Almost all of the hospitalizations/deaths are coming from unvaccinated.

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Just now, PhineasC said:

Do you realize that even if every American was vaccinated, someone can just hop off a plane from Africa or Asia and bring a variant here?

That's how they keep getting outbreaks in Australia. They are not all vaccinated, but they are shut down. It's coming in via travel and trade.

And why we need to vaccinate as many people around the World as we can.  The more vaccinated we are, the less likelihood there is for viral load, transmission, hospitalizations and deaths.  The virus will become much more manageable than it currently is.

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1 minute ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

 

Because vast majority of breakthrough cases don't lead to hospitalization or death, the 2 biggest indicators of the severity of pandemic.  Almost all of the hospitalizations/deaths are coming from unvaccinated.

But cases are used to drive restrictions, not hospitalizations and deaths. Ask your politicians to fix that instead of blaming the unvaccinated for this.

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2 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

 

Because vast majority of breakthrough cases don't lead to hospitalization or death, the 2 biggest indicators of the severity of pandemic.  Almost all of the hospitalizations/deaths are coming from unvaccinated.

they dont care.. never will care.  they just like to run their privileged freedom asses while diverting the blame on whoever they can get it to stick to.

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20 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

And why we need to vaccinate as many people around the World as we can.  The more vaccinated we are, the less likelihood there is for viral load, transmission, hospitalizations and deaths.  The virus will become much more manageable than it currently is.

Older study, but just to play devil's advocate, imperfect vaccines can possibly help spread more severe mutations...

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198

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5 minutes ago, dendrite said:

Older study, but just to play devil's advocate, imperfect vaccines can possibly help spread more severe mutations...

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198

It's so weird that people believe this crap that variants are created by the unvaccinated alone. It doesn't even make sense. The viruses are adapting to evade immunity, period. Vaccine-induced immunity isn't going to be any better in this regard than natural immunity (there is growing evidence that natural immunity is better).

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Just now, PhineasC said:

But cases are used to drive restrictions, not hospitalizations and deaths. Ask your politicians to fix that instead of blaming the unvaccinated for this.

And you're uncomfortable with that.  I can see why they do it though.  IMO, Public policy should be ahead of the curve such that things don't get out of control again and I do blame the willfully  unvaccinated for where we are currently in the US as a whole.  I'm fine with the current state of things where I live and in my daily routine/business.  If I'm asked to toss on a mask by the MA Governor again while out and about at a store, restaurant, so be it.  It's brief and not a huge deal.

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Just now, PhineasC said:

It's so weird that people believe this crap that variants are created by the unvaccinated alone. It doesn't even make sense. The viruses are adapting to evade immunity, period. Vaccine-induced immunity isn't going to be any better in this regard than natural immunity (there is growing evidence that natural immunity is better).

always the victim.   I haven't heard a single person blaming the unvaccinated for where we are at.  Y'all are so fragile for big bad freedom fighters.

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Just now, PhineasC said:

It's so weird that people believe this crap that variants are created by the unvaccinated alone. It doesn't even make sense. The viruses are adapting to evade immunity, period. Vaccine-induced immunity isn't going to be any better in this regard than natural immunity (there is growing evidence that natural immunity is better).

Who said that?  Virus mutate all the time.  It's the amount of virus around that the issue.  Less virus, less chance of mutation and geeater chance we get the virus under control and manageable, which we are no where near.

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2 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It's so weird that people believe this crap that variants are created by the unvaccinated alone. It doesn't even make sense. The viruses are adapting to evade immunity, period. Vaccine-induced immunity isn't going to be any better in this regard than natural immunity (there is growing evidence that natural immunity is better).

I'll agree about the natural immunity...but there's an obvious risk in getting there. i.e. you need to survive it without significant damage from the virus.

If I had gotten it and recovered I wouldn't feel the need to be vaccinated. But I preferred to take my chances with the vax versus actual COVID. As long as the vaccines prevent severe disease we should just be rolling on ahead because the virus itself isn't going anywhere now. Not to get all Drago, but if people don't get it and die, they die. We're overpopulated anyway. ;)

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My biological hypothesis about evolution, when including infectious diseases ...is that children cull the herd of weaker adults -

Their imperfect little still developing immune systems mutate something going around the community ...and then that more pernicious strain then takes out the weaker adults so that the adults can't have babies with inheritable/congenital weaker immune systems. 

So ...the next war, they should put all the babies on the front line and watch the opposing army all drop dead - the ultimate biological weapon.  BABIES

... heh.  

It's just that every single one of my friends ...all of them ... said they didn't know what it was like to be feebled by illness until they put their kids through day-care!

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