Met Summer Banter

[PhineasC]

8 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

Yep. Other countries like Israel and the UK are being much more honest about the huge number of cases in vaccinated people. But in our country they are not honest about that, because they want to keep calling it a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

 

Another way some doctors are being dishonest is that they're claiming that either you're vaccinated or you'll catch the Delta variant. That is completely untrue. There's no such thing as a virus getting to everyone. The 1918 flu didn't get to everyone. The Delta variant ravaged India, but there are tons of people over there that didn't get it. The lies that some (even doctors) come up with to try to scare people is very disturbing.

They also almost completely ignore natural immunity. I saw today yet another new study arguing that natural immunity may actually be more effective than the vaccine because the natural antibodies change over time to adapt to the variants whereas the vaccine-induced antibodies don’t. 

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/delta-infections-among-vaccinated-likely-contagious-lambda-variant-shows-vaccine-2021-08-02/

Quote

Among fully vaccinated people who never had COVID-19, getting a third dose of an mRNA vaccine from Pfizer (PFE.N)/BioNTech or Moderna (MRNA.O) would likely increase levels of antibodies, but not antibodies that are better able to neutralize new virus variants, Rockefeller University researchers reported on Thursday on bioRxiv ahead of peer review. They note that in COVID-19 survivors, the immune system's antibodies evolve during the first year, becoming more potent and better able to resist new variants. In 32 volunteers who never had COVID-19, they found that antibodies induced by mRNA vaccines did evolve between the first and second shots. But five months later, vaccine-induced antibodies were "equivalent" to those seen after the second dose, with "little measurable improvement" in the antibodies' ability to neutralize a broad variety of new variants, said coauthor Michel Nussenzweig. Therefore, he said, giving those individuals a third dose of the same vaccine would likely result in higher levels of antibodies that remain less effective against variants. "At the moment, the vaccine remains protective against serious infection," Nussenzweig said. "Should we learn that efficacy is indeed waning for serious infection, which is not really the case to date," then a booster dose of "whatever is available" might become appropriate, he added. Should an updated vaccine become available that protects against specific variants, "then that would be the choice."

 

[PhineasC]

A prior positive COVID test result should be just as valid as a vaccine card, IMO.

[Hoosier]

29 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Delta is about as deadly as the flu.

The media is still pushing blatantly wrong stats such as “99.99% of cases are the unvaccinated” when the CDC isn’t even tracking most breakthrough cases. 

If more and more data comes out supporting that delta has a mortality rate like the flu, then I'd have no problem with the media reporting that.  What also has to be mentioned though is that delta is far more contagious than the flu (nobody really disputes that, right?) so it will invariably end up getting to more people.  Hundreds of people are dying per day in the US.  We don't normally see that with the flu during the summer months.

[winterwx21]

9 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

They also almost completely ignore natural immunity. I saw today yet another new study arguing that natural immunity may actually be more effective than the vaccine because the natural antibodies change over time to adapt to the variants whereas the vaccine-induced antibodies don’t. 

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/delta-infections-among-vaccinated-likely-contagious-lambda-variant-shows-vaccine-2021-08-02/

 

Yeah the ignoring of natural immunity in our country might be the worst of all, because they want to force people to get shots that they don't even need. The other day I posted statistics from Israel that showed that natural immunity outperformed vaccine immunity by a wide margain in that country.

[PhineasC]

6 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

If more and more data comes out supporting that delta has a mortality rate like the flu, then I'd have no problem with the media reporting that.  What also has to be mentioned though is that delta is far more contagious than the flu (nobody really disputes that, right?) so it will invariably end up getting to more people.  Hundreds of people are dying per day in the US.  We don't normally see that with the flu during the summer months.

We probably never saw it before because we never had people like you staring at data all day or states collecting this data in the first place to scare the crap out of people. I'm sure boatloads of seniors have died of respiratory diseases in summers past and no one even batted an eye.

[winterwx21]

4 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

If more and more data comes out supporting that delta has a mortality rate like the flu, then I'd have no problem with the media reporting that.  What also has to be mentioned though is that delta is far more contagious than the flu (nobody really disputed that, right?) so it will invariably end up getting to more people.  Hundreds of people are dying per day in the US.  We don't normally see that with the flu during the summer months.

I definitely agree that the Delta variant is worse than the flu because of how incredibly contagious it is. A virus that's this contagious does a tremendous job of finding people that are most vulnerable, which is why we're seeing more hospitalizations and deaths with this than we see with the flu. But the media and even many doctors are misleading people when they claim that this variant is more likely to cause severe illness and death than variants of the past. The statistics from other countries are showing the opposite. Not really surprising because as viruses mutate, they tend to become more contagious but less lethal. But of course that does not mean that this virus still isn't dangerous for people with underlying health conditions.

[Hoosier]

4 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

We probably never saw it before because we never had people like you staring at data all day or states collecting this data in the first place to scare the crap out of people. I'm sure boatloads of seniors have died of respiratory diseases in summers past and no one even batted an eye.

If you think that what is going on now is normally seen to this extent in the summer, then we'll have to agree to disagree. 

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

If you think that what is going on now is normally seen to this extent in the summer, then we'll have to agree to disagree. 

We have never collected data on the flu or other respiratory diseases to this extent. The flu death numbers from the CDC each year a total guess, by their own admission. When an old person infected with the flu dies of heart failure or COPD, it isn't called "death from flu" on the stats. That concept is unique to COVID.

No doubt Delta is super transmissible, which is why it will burn out quickly and many millions of Americans have already caught it and recovered (if they even realized they had it). That includes many vaccinated people too!

[WhitinsvilleWX]

7 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

We have never collected data on the flu or other respiratory diseases to this extent. The flu death numbers from the CDC each year a total guess, by their own admission. When an old person infected with the flu dies of heart failure or COPD, it isn't called "death from flu" on the stats. That concept is unique to COVID.

No doubt Delta is super transmissible, which is why it will burn out quickly and many millions of Americans have already caught it and recovered (if they even realized they had it). That includes many vaccinated people too!

We’ve never done widespread testing for the flu using PCR like this. Ever 

[rclab]

7 hours ago, Ginx snewx said:

You go all the way to Iceland and this is your first pic. Lol.  Love it

 

6 hours ago, PhineasC said:

He's already delivering on his promises.

 

6 hours ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

You have to go. We need a field report

 

5 hours ago, klw said:

Hint- everything has meat in it, even the pastries.

Good afternoon folks. I found this on Drudge ( why not ) as per the potential spread north … just wait until we are collectively trying to figure out how to weed and plant standing up. You might as well come on back home …. Iceland is not matching this.
 As always…

[Lava Rock]

33 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

If more and more data comes out supporting that delta has a mortality rate like the flu, then I'd have no problem with the media reporting that.  What also has to be mentioned though is that delta is far more contagious than the flu (nobody really disputes that, right?) so it will invariably end up getting to more people.  Hundreds of people are dying per day in the US.  We don't normally see that with the flu during the summer months.

yes, but as the virus evolves and likely becomes less fatal but more contagious, then of course more people will "catch it", but so long as it goes this way, what is the problem? My issue is that more than likely this will become nothing more than another common cold virus, but the mandated vaccines will stay in place. Again, what will be the new metric(s) that has to be met until it is determined that covid vaccines are no longer needed. I'd say they'll never use any. Cash cow for big pharma. 

 

 

[tamarack]

Some numbers I've pondered concerning the notorious breakthroughs-
According to the JHU site, current US vaccinations are a bit over 348 million, and considering the J&J one-shot plus those Pfizer/Moderna folks with only the 1st one, I'd put the fully vaxxed US population in the 150-170 million range.  Current cases are 35 million+, or about 10.5% of total US population.  Conceptually, if not vaxxed those 150-170 mm over the post-vaxx year or so would have contracted 15-17 million positives.  Given the 90-95% efficacy reported in the test numbers, the now-vaxxed 15-17 mm would have some 800,000+ breakthrough cases.  Why are people so upset over breakthroughs in the hundreds?
(Your arithmetic may vary.)

[Lava Rock]

20 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

I definitely agree that the Delta variant is worse than the flu because of how incredibly contagious it is. A virus that's this contagious does a tremendous job of finding people that are most vulnerable, which is why we're seeing more hospitalizations and deaths with this than we see with the flu. But the media and even many doctors are misleading people when they claim that this variant is more likely to cause severe illness and death than variants of the past. The statistics from other countries are showing the opposite. Not really surprising because as viruses mutate, they tend to become more contagious but less lethal. But of course that does not mean that this virus still isn't dangerous for people with underlying health conditions.

And don't forget last week's comparison to smallpox, SARS, MERS, Ebola. Fear factor on steroids

[Hoosier]

10 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

We have never collected data on the flu or other respiratory diseases to this extent. The flu death numbers from the CDC each year a total guess, by their own admission. When an old person infected with the flu dies of heart failure or COPD, it isn't called "death from flu" on the stats. That concept is unique to COVID.

No doubt Delta is super transmissible, which is why it will burn out quickly and many millions of Americans have already caught it and recovered (if they even realized they had it). That includes many vaccinated people too!

Oh, are you one of those people who thinks that a ton of covid deaths were mischaracterized?  It'd be silly for me to argue that that never happens, but it's not enough to really alter things in a big way.  There were something like 3.3 million total/all-cause deaths in the US in 2020, compared to about 2.8 million expected deaths.  Hundreds of thousands of extra people died from something.  

[PhineasC]

5 minutes ago, tamarack said:

Some numbers I've pondered concerning the notorious breakthroughs-
According to the JHU site, current US vaccinations are a bit over 348 million, and considering the J&J one-shot plus those Pfizer/Moderna folks with only the 1st one, I'd put the fully vaxxed US population in the 150-170 million range.  Current cases are 35 million+, or about 10.5% of total US population.  Conceptually, if not vaxxed those 150-170 mm over the post-vaxx year or so would have contracted 15-17 million positives.  Given the 90-95% efficacy reported in the test numbers, the now-vaxxed 15-17 mm would have some 800,000+ breakthrough cases.  Why are people so upset over breakthroughs in the hundreds?
(Your arithmetic may vary.)

Breakthrough cases are clearly being way undercounted in this country. It's up for debate why this is happening. There is strong evidence from the UK and Israel that infers there are many more breakthrough cases here than just the couple hundred that have received media attention so far. 

[PhineasC]

8 minutes ago, rclab said:

 

 

 

Good afternoon folks. I found this on Drudge ( why not ) as per the potential spread north … just wait until we are collectively trying to figure out how to weed and plant standing up. You might as well come on back home …. Iceland is not matching this.
 As always…

We need to come together as Americans regardless of vaccination status and eradicate the penis snakes immediately.

[PhineasC]

6 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Oh, are you one of those people who thinks that a ton of covid deaths were mischaracterized?  It'd be silly for me to argue that that never happens, but it's not enough to really alter things in a big way.  There were something like 3.3 million total/all-cause deaths in the US in 2020, compared to about 2.8 million expected deaths.  Hundreds of thousands of extra people died from something.  

I think some of the 2020 excess was COVID accelerating deaths that would have occurred 1-2 years later if COVID didn't exist. A guy who was very sick in hospice and may have held on until 2022 instead died in 2020. There are surely scores of these examples. There is also probably some plain old mislabeling. People who tested positive for COVID and then died of a heart attack.

Our society had a lot of unhealthy "easy targets" last year that COVID definitely went after hard.

I think the studies that come out in a few years looking at the 2020 data will change the narrative a bit.

[rclab]

2 hours ago, PhineasC said:

We need to come together as Americans regardless of vaccination status and eradicate the penis snakes immediately.

Im sorry Phineas, I just couldn’t. It would seem too much like jealous revenge because I can’t match them . As always …

[Tolland Death Band]

12 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I think some of the 2020 excess was COVID accelerating deaths that would have occurred 1-2 years later if COVID didn't exist. A guy who was very sick in hospice and may have held on until 2022 instead died in 2020. There are surely scores of these examples. There is also probably some plain old mislabeling. People who tested positive for COVID and then died of a heart attack.

Our society had a lot of unhealthy "easy targets" last year that COVID definitely went after hard.

I think the studies that come out in a few years looking at the 2020 data will change the narrative a bit.

People in hospice don’t spend 2 years there

[PhineasC]

Just now, Tolland Death Band said:

People in hospice don’t spend 2 years there

Right, bad choice of word. OK, so a long-term care facility then. 

[TalcottWx]

https://twitter.com/FakeNewsHuntres/status/1422631652036018178?s=19

[WhitinsvilleWX]

2 minutes ago, Tolland Death Band said:

People in hospice don’t spend 2 years there

That’s not true. Hospice care doesn’t mean you’re in a facility. It can get extended for several 6 month intervals. 

[SnoSki14]

1 hour ago, PhineasC said:

They also almost completely ignore natural immunity. I saw today yet another new study arguing that natural immunity may actually be more effective than the vaccine because the natural antibodies change over time to adapt to the variants whereas the vaccine-induced antibodies don’t. 

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/delta-infections-among-vaccinated-likely-contagious-lambda-variant-shows-vaccine-2021-08-02/

 

So I'm guessing if you had your way you would just let the virus do its thing. No masks, no lockdowns, no vaccines right.

[PhineasC]

Just now, SnoSki14 said:

So I'm guessing if you had your way you would just let the virus do its thing. No masks, no lockdowns, no vaccines right. 

I would not mandate anything related to masks. Companies can choose to do what they want with masks. I don't think lockdowns should be legal.

Vaccines are very good. Not everyone can get the virus and survive, or avoid serious complications. The vaccine needs to be free and available to all.

Lockdowns don't do anything unless you want to be like China or Australia (even then it is debatable). No thanks.

[HoarfrostHubb]

1 hour ago, PhineasC said:

A prior positive COVID test result should be just as valid as a vaccine card, IMO.

It is for some purposes.  To enter Iceland that was valid if you can show you recovered from it

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

It is for some purposes.  To enter Iceland that was valid if you can show you recovered from it

I wonder how you prove recovery?

[Brian5671]

Just now, PhineasC said:

I wonder how you prove recovery?

by being alive.  LOL

[PhineasC]

3 minutes ago, Brian5671 said:

by being alive.  LOL

LOL well yeah… just struck me as weird I guess. 

[HoarfrostHubb]

15 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I wonder how you prove recovery?

I think you show you tested positive then had antibodies then a negative?  Not totally sure

[correnjim1]

I had Covid.....I've had worse hangovers