Met Summer Banter

[HoarfrostHubb]

55 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Agreed on India for sure, but then that gets into a question of a place like China, which one would expect to have had high numbers of deaths. China is often touted as an example of how “lockdowns work” but it seems silly to trust their numbers.

One other factor many forget, the US is a fairly old nation. India, Africa, SE Asia tend to be much younger. They don’t have a very large population of elderly in nursing homes for the virus to invade and destroy. That can dramatically lower the death rates. 

Oh, I feel that most people haven't taken any data to come out of China seriously since last March

[Hoosier]

18 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

Didn't India use Ivermectin en masse when they were in the trows of the pandemic?  I don't really know what to believe anymore. 

I may take a few weeks off from the news and just stick to my own, local life duties.   My part of the world was pretty calm during this entire pandemic and I have no reason to believe it won't be going forward.  Masks will be a mild inconvenience if mandated but I'm not expecting food shortages etc.

We gotta get more quality data on Ivermectin.  It's a little hard to trust as I suspect there is a big overlap between the proponents of that and hydroxychloroquine and not getting vaxxed, despite vaccination demonstrating overwhelmingly clear benefit at reducing severe disease/death.

[tamarack]

13 hours ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Well, he is right. Think about human life expectancy since vaccines and modern medicine (it has many warts too) have come about.  500 years ago people were lucky to make it to 40.   
Now whether we are better for it is a whole other argument.  
 

I always heard from my parents how terrified people were of polio back in the 1950s before Salk. It was a miracle in their minds.  I am guessing a big difference here is that it (polio) attacked children and the survivors had visible indicators of their struggle (crutches etc). 

That low average lifespan is a bit deceptive, but in a way that makes health of the young so important.  Might be more appropriate to say that 500 years ago people were fortunate to make it to 10.  Those that survived into their teens probably had lifespans about 60, significantly lower than now but way more than half way.  A well-known case in point - J.S. Bach fathered 20 children in the early 1700s and only 7 survived into adulthood. 

[MJO812]

[MJO812]

People are starting to file lawsuits in regards to Deblasios    vaccine and weekly testing mandate.

[TalcottWx]

[HIPPYVALLEY]

14 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

People are starting to file lawsuits in regards to Deblasios    vaccine and weekly testing mandate.

This is heading for massive civil division across the western world. Have you seen the size of some of the anti-lockdown protest in Europe?  

[tamarack]

12 hours ago, powderfreak said:

We get everyone.  No one state plate stands out… equal opportunity.  Becomes lower in MD, DE, NC, VA but they are around.  NY, NJ, MA, RI, CT, even NH… all seem relative to population.

 

When I would be in the inevitable midsummer traffic jam where Rt 1 and Rt 172 merge going into Ellsworth, I'd have plenty of time to count Maine vs. not-Maine plates, and the latter would run about 75% of the total.  Farther south, say Ogunquit, the non-Maine proportion is probably even higher.

[MJO812]

8 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

This is heading for massive civil division across the western world. Have you seen the size of some of the anti-lockdown protest in Europe?  

It's going to get bad

[MJO812]

#BREAKING: New York State will mandate all state employees either be vaccinated or get tested regularly.

We are working with the state unions to implement this program quickly & fairly. Will take effect by Labor Day

[tamarack]

3 hours ago, Lava Rock said:

That's not stopping Maine CDC from requiring masks again in public places, effective today. I don't know if it'll be statewide or not, but details to come. Total over reaction.

Maine cases exploded from <20 to about 70 per day!  That's just over 5 per 100,000.  Yikes!

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

13 hours ago, SouthCoastMA said:

Good post. My wife has been living with post covid effects going on 16 months now. 

My wife swears she has like hazy memory and brain fog at times since she had covid in feb.

My only symptom was the loss of taste and smell, but she had mild flu like symptoms.

I also feel from time to time like my memory is junk and I’m just a bit fuzzy. It’s easier to think this is a mind trick or anxiety than actually considering it’s real

[PhineasC]

14 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

This is heading for massive civil division across the western world. Have you seen the size of some of the anti-lockdown protest in Europe?  

If the pandemic had actually affected normal people as much as the media would have you believe, the people would be rioting for doses of the vaccine, not to protest vaccine passports. So much of the fear around this pandemic has been generated by the media, instead of by people's personal experiences. Some here and elsewhere like to point at these people as "morons" simply for just trusting what they can observe around them in their own communities more than what the man on TV is saying.

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

My wife swears she has like hazy memory and brain fog at times since she had covid in feb.

My only symptom was the loss of taste and smell, but she had mild flu like symptoms.

I also feel from time to time like my memory is junk and I’m just a bit fuzzy. It’s easier to think this is a mind trick or anxiety than actually considering it’s real

I am skeptical of "long COVID" until we see some good long-term studies. The symptoms are all very vague and broad, and seem to overlap an awful lot with symptoms of depression and anxiety disorders, which are concurrently rising rapidly.

[powderfreak]

3 hours ago, Lava Rock said:

That's not stopping Maine CDC from requiring masks again in public places, effective today. I don't know if it'll be statewide or not, but details to come. Total over reaction.

VT’s Governor spoke yesterday that seemed pretty firm on not returning to any restrictions unless deaths start to skyrocket.

“Despite an increase in COVID-19 infection rates nationally and in Vermont, Gov. Phil Scott and some of his key cabinet members remained upbeat during a weekly press briefing on Tuesday, saying they don’t anticipate a return of state restrictions.

“There’s not a reason for us to take an alarmist kind of stance and make any major changes,” Scott said. “I went to a number of parades this year, and there were a lot of people there as well … We’re almost back to normal.” 

Nearly all of the infections nationally and in Vermont are striking unvaccinated people, officials said. However, the state has no plans to require vaccinations of state workers, and some other states have done, Scott said.”

[Brian5671]

20 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

This is heading for massive civil division across the western world. Have you seen the size of some of the anti-lockdown protest in Europe?  

Doubt there's any lockdowns here.   Mask yes, but people are not going to do large scale protests over that

[TalcottWx]

5 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I am skeptical of "long COVID" until we see some good long-term studies. The symptoms are all very vague and broad, and seem to overlap an awful lot with symptoms of depression and anxiety disorders, which are concurrently rising rapidly.

My friend had it for two months. Please stop 

[PhineasC]

LOL only some anecdotes from "my cousin from Boston" are acceptable, I guess.

[Hoosier]

3 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

LOL only some anecdotes from "my cousin from Boston" are acceptable, I guess.

There's a lot to be learned about long covid but I think it's pretty clearly a real thing.  Some of the symptoms are hard to explain away as just "all in someone's head"

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, Hoosier said:

There's a lot to be learned about long covid but I think it's pretty clearly a real thing.  Some of the symptoms are hard to explain away as just "all in someone's head"

It could be. Obviously long-term studies that attempt to rule out the many conflating factors are needed. All I keep seeing are anecdotes from a "friend of a friend" type deal referring to very generic symptoms that can also be caused by excessive stress, anxiety, etc. I think it's kind of telling that this seems to mostly affect the same demographics that are hardest hit by anxiety disorders and depression (females 30-50 years of age). That doesn't seem to make sense given that COVID actually hits a totally different demographic (older men) hardest, right?

[Tolland Death Band]

2 hours ago, PhineasC said:

Good stuff, although I noticed that as usual they caveat that by pointing out the "slow rate of vaccinations." 

India beat Delta basically without the vaccines.

If it’s true, the health of the Indian people really needs to be looked at. Is it diet? The fact that for many of their poor, they would seem to have every disadvantage health-wise. Just boggles the mind

[Baroclinic Zone]

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/07/26/1019875347/doctors-worry-that-memory-problems-after-covid-19-may-set-stage-for-alzheimers

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, Tolland Death Band said:

If it’s true, the health of the Indian people really needs to be looked at. Is it diet? The fact that for many of their poor, they would seem to have every disadvantage health-wise. Just boggles the mind

1) Delta is a lot weaker than the US media is telling people

2) 65% of the Indian population is below the age of 35. The demographics there are a lot different than this country and especially Western Europe. Herd immunity was always a quicker option for them. I'm sure their case load became absurd at various points. Ridiculous numbers of 25 year olds with the sniffles or no symptoms.

[Cyclone-68]

33 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

My wife swears she has like hazy memory and brain fog at times since she had covid in feb.

My only symptom was the loss of taste and smell, but she had mild flu like symptoms.

I also feel from time to time like my memory is junk and I’m just a bit fuzzy. It’s easier to think this is a mind trick or anxiety than actually considering it’s real

I’ve had this happen to me as well. COVID in December and my wife and I haven’t felt right since..it’s been concerning to us..

[SouthCoastMA]

23 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I am skeptical of "long COVID" until we see some good long-term studies. The symptoms are all very vague and broad, and seem to overlap an awful lot with symptoms of depression and anxiety disorders, which are concurrently rising rapidly.

Some of those claiming long COVID could be just having anxiety..so wouldn't be surprised if their is overlap. But it is very real. My wife was getting 'brain zaps' for about a month straight which wouldn't allow her to fall asleep out of fear. These were physical, not mental. She still feels buzzing in her head every night, but to a lesser degree. She cannot fully exert herself yet without feeling out of breath, to this day. That's only a couple of the symptoms, including tingling in the hands/feet, and basic nerve issues. 

We have Abnormal EEG's to back it up, and a myriad of other elevated test results like Cytokine panels..but it's still hard to prove a connection literally, other than it all happened after a mild case with flu like symptoms last March and a tight chest. However, as you should be aware..viruses can trigger downstream effects, like auto-immune reactions that are indirectly brought out by a virus. This one 

I read a few theories that the OG Covid (alpha,  (the virus that likely escaped the Wuhan Lab) seems to have caused most of the long-covid patients..and perhaps the mutated versions have not resulted in as many long-covid patients. I don't know why though. 

I will say she has also had a swollen throat for the past two months.  We initially thought it was allergies, but doubtful given the medication hasn't worked. 

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/07/26/1019875347/doctors-worry-that-memory-problems-after-covid-19-may-set-stage-for-alzheimers

Looking forward to seeing some real studies over real populations and real timelines, for sure.

Other major respiratory illnesses such as serious pneumonia can cause lingering affects as well, so it isn't unprecedented. But they are relatively rare.

To me, this feels like the Kawasaki Syndrome scare. A lot of hype, but it turned out to be very rare and not really above normal background levels once the data was crunched.

[SouthCoastMA]

I believe the long-term studies will prove it is real.  

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, SouthCoastMA said:

Some of those claiming long COVID could be just having anxiety..so wouldn't be surprised if their is overlap. But it is very real. My wife was getting 'brain zaps' for about a month straight which wouldn't allow her to fall asleep out of fear. These were physical, not mental. She still feels buzzing in her head every night, but to a lesser degree. She cannot fully exert herself yet without feeling out of breath, to this day. That's only a couple of the symptoms, including tingling in the hands/feet, and basic nerve issues. 

We have Abnormal EEG's to back it up, and a myriad of other elevated test results like Cytokine panels..but it's still hard to prove a connection literally, other than it all happened after a mild case with flu like symptoms last March and a tight chest. However, as you should be aware..viruses can trigger downstream effects, like auto-immune reactions that are indirectly brought out by a virus. This one 

I read a few theories that the OG Covid (alpha,  (the virus that likely escaped the Wuhan Lab) seems to have caused most of the long-covid patients..and perhaps the mutated versions have not resulted in as many long-covid patients. I don't know why though. 

I will say she has also had a swollen throat for the past two months.  We initially thought it was allergies, but doubtful given the medication hasn't worked. 

It's going to take time to nail this down, because most people are reporting very broad and generally vague symptoms like this. This will end up like lupus and similar diseases that are hard to pin down and treat.

[natedizel]

36 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

VT’s Governor spoke yesterday that seemed pretty firm on not returning to any restrictions unless deaths start to skyrocket.

“Despite an increase in COVID-19 infection rates nationally and in Vermont, Gov. Phil Scott and some of his key cabinet members remained upbeat during a weekly press briefing on Tuesday, saying they don’t anticipate a return of state restrictions.

“There’s not a reason for us to take an alarmist kind of stance and make any major changes,” Scott said. “I went to a number of parades this year, and there were a lot of people there as well … We’re almost back to normal.” 

Nearly all of the infections nationally and in Vermont are striking unvaccinated people, officials said. However, the state has no plans to require vaccinations of state workers, and some other states have done, Scott said.”

Sounds like someone with a level head.

[SouthCoastMA]

Ivermectin might be legit..unlike hydroxychloroquine. But we definitely need more data.