Met Summer Banter

[WhitinsvilleWX]

13 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

The government needs to do more than simply provide better "messaging." They need to say masks are not required for the vaccinated, period.

It's doesn't make sense to most people when the government says, "Vaccines work extremely well and prevent death, but vaccinated people need to mask up to stay safe."

This I can agree with. 

[PhineasC]

4 minutes ago, CCHurricane said:

If current vaccination rates were >75% across the nation, I firmly believe that would in fact be the messaging you would hear. 

Vaccination does not eliminate an individuals ability to contract or transmit COVID. For the vaccinated individual there is little risk, but if 30%-60% of the underlying adult community is not vaccinated, the safety guidelines are not being made to protect vaccinated individuals. 

While I understand the desire for guidance to adopt a more "live your life and deal with the consequences" sort of messaging, that decision would become pretty controversial given unknown outcomes. When things go bad, governments are questioned for not doing enough, and when situations don't meet sometimes alarmist expectations, they are lambasted for over-reacting.

It could be. That is not what is happening in other countries with high vaccination rates, though.

It's also not what is happening in certain locales in this country with relatively high vaccination uptake.

I see very little evidence any public policy decisions to reinstate masks and restrictions are being made based on deaths. It's all cases.

I'm just not able to be so optimistic that mass worldwide vaccination is going to end this. Much more likely it ends as the virus mutates to become weaker and fades into the background with the rest of the respiratory viruses we deal with. That's already occurring.

[PhineasC]

Just now, Lava Rock said:

Wow, didn't know it was that low.

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0.02% death rate. Basically flu. I posted it a few times here.

[Baroclinic Zone]

19 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

At some unachievable panacea level where the world is fully vaccinated with boosters every six months, yes.

This is not a sterilizing vaccine that makes you immune for life. It's already showing signs of being like the flu vaccine.

Yep.  That's been the going science for quite some time.  

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Yep.  That's been the going science for quite some time.  

LOL OK, so how do you plan to vaccinate the world every six months forever? Pay Pfizer $80T and hope it works out?

Flu still kills 50-80k a year here, at least (it's definitely more). We OK with that for COVID?

[klw]

34 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Freaking latest iPhone update bricked my phone.

Software update = phone vaccine.

[CCHurricane]

2 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It could be. That is not what is happening in other countries with high vaccination rates, though.

It's also not what is happening in certain locales in this country with relatively high vaccination uptake.

I see very little evidence any public policy decisions to reinstate masks and restrictions are being made based on deaths. It's all cases.

I'm just not able to be so optimistic that mass worldwide vaccination is going to end this. Much more likely it ends as the virus mutates to become weaker and fades into the background with the rest of the respiratory viruses we deal with. That's already occurring.

Other countries are not he United States, which is a good thing for us.

And again, until vaccination rates increase across the country there WILL be a correlation between cases and deaths, and therefore policy will continue to be based off of that assumption. If every state was like Massachusetts in terms of vaccination adoption, and mask mandates remained mandatory, you and I would be in 100% agreement. 

[Typhoon Tip]

27 minutes ago, CCHurricane said:

Higher vaccination rates allow for a verifiable decoupling of cases vs. deaths here in the US and allows for policy to change accordingly. The Media is doing an extremely poor job of communicating that information to the public, and the Provincetown cluster was the perfect example. The story SHOULD have been that because individuals in the group were vaccinated, that mortality was eliminated. Instead the messaging has been focused on the fact that vaccinated individuals are being infected (while ignoring severity of sickness), which only further muddies the water for those who are hesitant to receive the vaccine, or further emboldens anti-vaxxers unscientific and unsubstantiated claims. 

Enjoying the summer here in Boston which has been business as usual for 4 months. No masks, no problem. 

There needs to be regulation/FCC and crackdown.  Journalistic Integrity and practice parted company years ago and it is down right audaciously so now.

Corporations/people seem incapable of enforcing ethics upon themselves - particularly in the area of media.

Instead, rely upon mangled interpretation of Free Speech to continue operating in bomb of equivocation, masquerading as fact, and with tsunamis there simply is no time to evaluate for by shear volume.  The "IMC"  ( Industrial Media Complex ...) knows this and leverages it so they can traumatize people even more into clicking mouses, swiping smart phones, or pinging channels on their TVs.  

So long as they make their bottom lines.

In an ideal world - for me - there should be a taxation levied against all media industry for vaccines and healthy care.  That's straighten them out in a hurry.

[Lava Rock]

Bingo. Not that hard to grasp. Once deaths and hospitalizations are minimal, nobody will care about case numbers. 

Sure, but why no policy metrics around hospitalizations?

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[Baroclinic Zone]

12 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

You guys also seem to making a huge assumption about future vaccine efficacy (which keeps declining -- for Pfizer at least) and the likelihood of getting the rest of the world vaccinated. It is also debatable how many people in this country will get the booster or even bother getting vaccinated again next year.

There is a reason officials in Iceland and Australia both recently admitted that vaccines alone cannot achieve herd immunity or end the case spiral.

[NorEastermass128]

1 minute ago, Lava Rock said:

Sure, but why no policy metrics around hospitalizations?

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Here…there kind of is. No uniform restrictions here imposed by Baker. Cases rising fast but death and hospitalizations are flat. Therefore, Mass is partying like it’s 2019. You should see Gloucester and Rockport right now. Bummed I have to fly out of town on Sunday morning for work. 

[Jonger]

42 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

I know you don't

Let's be real, nobody here does.

[Lava Rock]

It could be. That is not what is happening in other countries with high vaccination rates, though.
It's also not what is happening in certain locales in this country with relatively high vaccination uptake.
I see very little evidence any public policy decisions to reinstate masks and restrictions are being made based on deaths. It's all cases.
I'm just not able to be so optimistic that mass worldwide vaccination is going to end this. Much more likely it ends as the virus mutates to become weaker and fades into the background with the rest of the respiratory viruses we deal with. That's already occurring.

Assuming it does mutate to more of a cold virus, you think the push and/or mandates to vaccinate and boost will go away? I don't think they will. No way in hell I'll be lining up for boosters.

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[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, NorEastermass128 said:

Here…there kind of is. No uniform restrictions here imposed by Baker. Cases rising fast but death and hospitalizations are flat. Therefore, Mass is partying like it’s 2019. You should see Gloucester and Rockport right now. Bummed I have to fly out of town on Sunday morning for work. 

So far most northern states have held off on major restrictions. It can be argued they are working them through businesses instead. It’s also not respiratory illness season there. We will see what November looks like. Probably much uglier. 

[Hoosier]

8 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

LOL OK, so how do you plan to vaccinate the world every six months forever? Pay Pfizer $80T and hope it works out?

Flu still kills 50-80k a year here, at least (it's definitely more). We OK with that for COVID?

No it doesn't, except in unusually bad years.

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, Jonger said:

Let's be real, nobody here does.

There is a thread on this very board where people of the same exact social and political persuasion are taking bets on which one of us will die first. 

[NorEastermass128]

1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

So far most northern states have held off on major restrictions. It can be argued they are working them through businesses instead. It’s also not respiratory illness season there. We will see what November looks like. Probably much uglier. 

Not these northern states. 

[correnjim1]

1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

There is a thread on this very board where people of the same exact social and political persuasion are taking bets on which one of us will die first. 

demented disgusting people

[PhineasC]

5 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

No it doesn't, except in unusually bad years.

Flu definitely kills at least 50k a year. A lot of pneumonia and ARDS cases in the elderly start as the flu. They are just not called flu deaths. The CDC has admitted for years their flu numbers are total guesses. You see these little spikes in some years when they are tracking a novel new variant more closely, like swine flu. 

[Damage In Tolland]

1 hour ago, SouthCoastMA said:

 

Do these people get the flu shot? And is their only hesitance that it's mNRA technology, which so far has proven to be safe, for the majority, in the near term, and inconclusive at worst in the longer term (since we have no data). Just trying to get an understanding on why, especially when potentially dealing with elderly or immune compromised folks, why they would risk the chance of subjecting those people to a higher viral load if not necessary? Just trying to learn the reasoning here

Some do and some have they said they not.  There is a strong belief in the medical community of immunity and having the body fight these things off. I also have gotten the flu shot and have almost never gotten the flu . Not everyone in the field has these beliefs, but there is a very strong contingent that does . 

[NorEastermass128]

Day After Tomorrow 

[Bostonseminole]

1 hour ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Link to data?

has zero links and you know this

[PhineasC]

How many deaths per year are acceptable for COVID? 20k? 50k? 100k?

[Modfan2]

If this is accurate it appears FL maybe at peak or starting to decline

 

[Baroclinic Zone]

Just now, PhineasC said:

LOL OK, so how do you plan to vaccinate the world every six months forever? Pay Pfizer $80T and hope it works out?

Flu still kills 50-80k a year here, at least (it's definitely more). We OK with that for COVID?

Your deaths are high for flu. I'd say ideally, if we know Covid is under control globally, and we have widespread distribution of various vaccines that can be used in different parts of World, we should see deaths in the same realm as the seasonal flu.  What we have found out though is Covid is not seasonal and can be a year round virus, so we are likely to see a greater emphasis placed on it than the flu when it comes to vaccinations and time period between dosing.  Maybe it's once every 6-9mo.  Who knows until more efficacy data comes in from the ongoing long term trials.

[Bostonseminole]

1 hour ago, Lava Rock said:

You mean they're actually trying to do the right thing this time

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idk, they are annoying me since we are trying to close the month and these are large shipments

[Jonger]

10 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

There is a thread on this very board where people of the same exact social and political persuasion are taking bets on which one of us will die first. 

The same forum where people wish for strong hurricanes, cares about some fat conservative guy dying of covid 7 states away.

Right....

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Your deaths are high for flu. I'd say ideally, if we know Covid is under control globally, and we have widespread distribution of various vaccines that can be used in different parts of World, we should see deaths in the same realm as the seasonal flu.  What we have found out though is Covid is not seasonal and can be a year round virus, so we are likely to see a greater emphasis placed on it than the flu when it comes to vaccinations and time period between dosing.  Maybe it's once every 6-9mo.  Who knows until more efficacy data comes in from the ongoing long term trials.

The flu numbers from the CDC are guesses, unlike the COVID numbers (supposedly). It hardly matters though. How do you keep everyone on the planet vaxxed every six months forever? Just play it out in your head. It makes no sense. We will need to learn to accept tens of thousands of COVID deaths here and up to a million worldwide. We don’t need to vaccinate everyone forever to hit those numbers. 

[Baroclinic Zone]

Just now, PhineasC said:

The flu numbers from the CDC are guesses, unlike the COVID numbers (supposedly). It hardly matters though. How do you keep everyone on the planet vaxxed every six months forever? Just play it out in your head. It makes no sense. We will need to learn to accept tens of thousands of COVID deaths here and up to a million worldwide. We don’t need to vaccinate everyone forever to hit those numbers. 

I'm gonna guess guess there data set is far more accurate than yours.

[PhineasC]

Just now, Baroclinic Zone said:

I'm gonna guess guess there data set is far more accurate than yours.

It doesn’t even matter if the deaths average 20k or 100k. Doesn’t change the point.