Met Summer Banter

[UMB WX]

51 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

I don't give it a second thought. As an aside,I've been shaking hands all week with shareholders and vendors despite you saying last year handshakes were over.

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but the blacks are spreading it

[UMB WX]

4 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

Yeah, I'm not a fist or elbow bumper. Seems trendy and unnatural

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lol

[powderfreak]

Just now, PhineasC said:

It might not hit the Supreme Court, but there are going to be a lot of wrongful termination lawsuits over this.

What do I do as an employer if the employee refuses to provide vaccine status or test results? Fire him/her on the spot? I am not so sure I have legal protection there. I could definitely see the EEOC and state labor boards not agreeing that was a bonafide reason to fire someone. This will be a mess for companies that operate across state lines and globally.

I think it depends.  As someone who was instructed that firing an individual for failing to comply with state and company guidelines last winter.

I know you are dealing with much higher wage employees who likely take it very seriously... more than a youngster just bouncing around ski bumming after college... but if you fire people for violating company policy, and you make those guidelines company policy, I think legally you have a good shot.  You could make them wear red shirts on Tuesday if you want to.  Uniform policy.  Non disclosure policies.

I think legally the issue would be if a COVID test is a violation of personal information.  As long as there is another option besides getting the jab (no matter how ridiculous it is), employers will be ok here.  It's annoying but it's the same as if a company was like hey, you need to ride public transportation or you need to get your car inspected weekly.

My biggest question is... does the employer pay for the weekly COVID testing?  If they do and it's company policy, it's just like any other policy IMO that an employee has to follow.  It will be interesting to follow legally.  People may start becoming more likely to litigate their employers the longer it drags on.

[Supernovice]

8 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It might not hit the Supreme Court, but there are going to be a lot of wrongful termination lawsuits over this.

What do I do as an employer if the employee refuses to provide vaccine status or test results? Fire him/her on the spot? I am not so sure I have legal protection there. I could definitely see the EEOC and state labor boards not agreeing that was a bonafide reason to fire someone. This will be a mess for companies that operate across state lines and globally.

So I’ve disagreed with you on the insurance thing for awhile. I run our Corp insurance program on the side— zero Covid claims in CAD, US, MX (5k employees) since this started including manufacturing lines, which we never paused unless there was an active outbreak ongoing, literally never lost a minute of sleep over that side of the business re: Covid.

But I 100% agree things get sticky when it comes to proving vaccine status. And ultimately that’s why I think this will end up being mandated by the states, but you are correct ( for once, lol) I think this becomes an issue for pvt sector co’s.

[forkyfork]

 

[UMB WX]

1 hour ago, PhineasC said:

Here comes the big push to vaccinate little kids...

Just saw two TV commercials.

Yeah, vax them up and then mask them up for another year in school jail!

old news.

 

[powderfreak]

6 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

Yeah, I'm not a fist or elbow bumper. Seems trendy and unnatural

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk
 

Never an elbow bumper... but will give a fist bump at times when a high-five used to be warranted.  Bottom of a fun powder ski run, that's fist bump time.  Like if you are finishing up an awesome snowmobile ride, hand shake seems too formal?  That's when you just want to say good day dude, give the fist bump.  Might be trendy but it has it's moment.  Can't be overused.

[PhineasC]

The elbow bump is only for white women between the ages of 40-65.

[WhitinsvilleWX]

27 minutes ago, Supernovice said:

Nope never heard of it. Separate but equal, brown v board of Ed…try patronizing someone else.

Legal precedent can be overturned yes, is it likely to be overturned…almost certainly not.

But maybe you’re right, conservative lawyers have always had a problem with states rights— right?

Just pointing out stare decisis doesn’t always work out.

[PhineasC]

12 minutes ago, Supernovice said:

So I’ve disagreed with you on the insurance thing for awhile. I run our Corp insurance program on the side— zero Covid claims in CAD, US, MX (5k employees) since this started including manufacturing lines, which we never paused unless there was an active outbreak ongoing, literally never lost a minute of sleep over that side of the business re: Covid.

But I 100% agree things get sticky when it comes to proving vaccine status. And ultimately that’s why I think this will end up being mandated by the states, but you are correct ( for once, lol) I think this becomes an issue for pvt sector co’s.

I already had an employee sue me and one of my primes over COVID restrictions, so I definitely lost sleep over it.

I have no idea what "business" you are actually in (it seems to be some kind of vague and changing George Costanza "importer/exporter" thing based on your posts here) so I can't compare notes.

[Supernovice]

1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

I already had an employee sue me and one of my primes over COVID restrictions, so I definitely lost sleep over it.

I have no idea what "business" you are actually in (it seems to be some kind of vague and changing George Costanza "importer/exporter" thing based on your posts here) so I can't compare notes.

We agree to disagree- I’m renewing right now, hasn’t been brought up at all by my broker who is literally the biggest in the world. Prices are up but in my view it’s consolidation driving that - I dunno man.

I’m was trying to agree with you- not get into a pissing contest but here we are. 

[manchesterwx]

6 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It might not hit the Supreme Court, but there are going to be a lot of wrongful termination lawsuits over this.

What do I do as an employer if the employee refuses to provide vaccine status or test results? Fire him/her on the spot? I am not so sure I have legal protection there. I could definitely see the EEOC and state labor boards not agreeing that was a bonafide reason to fire someone. This will be a mess for companies that operate across state lines and globally.

I think you forget just how business-friendly this country is. Nearly all states in the union are at-will jurisdictions (some with no exemptions). Of course, the basis for terminating at employee must be legal (e.g. - non-discriminatory), but I doubt termination on the basis of vaccination status will be held to be discriminatory/illegal. I'm not sure if there is any caselaw on the issue nationally, but it's quite unlikely that you'd see large corporations (e.g. - Google) issuing vaccine mandates if they felt they were not on solid legal footing to do so. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm sure there will be litigation over the issue, but I'd expect that litigation to be brought against the big players first (since they have deep pockets), and I expect those big players to put up a fight. I wouldn't be surprised to see SCOTUS take up the issue, especially if you see inconsistent decisions amongst the circuit courts.

 

Overall, COVID is not good for business, and the large corporations that have tremendous influence over this country recognize that. America is a ruthlessly capitalistic country, and you can bet on vaccine mandates being deemed legal if unvaccinated employees (or individuals, generally) are deemed a potential threat to profits (hint: they are, which explains the recent about-face you've seen from certain politicians and media outlets ... big money has spoken).

[Bostonseminole]

I have a legitimate question. Why do the vaccinated care so much about the unvaccinated? Especially when the large majority of studies show it’s the vaccinated that are spreading it since they think they’re invincible? Why do they care so much what other people do or don’t do?

Idk seems like this only happens on this thread and it’s being extrapolated out. I can tell you, I can care less if someone is vax or not.


.

[PhineasC]

Just now, Supernovice said:

We agree to disagree- I’m renewing right now, hasn’t been brought up at all by my broker who is literally the biggest in the world. Prices are up but in my view it’s consolidation driving that - I dunno man.

I’m was trying to agree with you- not get into a pissing contest but here we are. 

We avoid our insurance company like the plague. You could be right, I can only speak based on what is going on my little world of defense contractors. It's definitely a sore subject for me because when I was sued over COVID my insurance company basically told me they aren't covering COVID claims because they expect a ton of them and I am on my own. Good for nothing clowns. Last time I talked to them about another matter, they told me that they were already seeing a rise in wrongful termination claims as employees are forced to return to work and then refuse. Just an anecdote, I know.

 

[PhineasC]

5 minutes ago, manchesterwx said:

I think you forget just how business-friendly this country is. Nearly all states in the union are at-will jurisdictions (some with no exemptions). Of course, the basis for terminating at employee must be legal (e.g. - non-discriminatory), but I doubt termination on the basis of vaccination status will be held to be discriminatory/illegal. I'm not sure if there is any caselaw on the issue nationally, but it's quite unlikely that you'd see large corporations (e.g. - Google) issuing vaccine mandates if they felt they were not on solid legal footing to do so. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm sure there will be litigation over the issue, but I'd expect that litigation to be brought against the big players first (since they have deep pockets), and I expect those big players to put up a fight. I wouldn't be surprised to see SCOTUS take up the issue, especially if you see inconsistent decisions amongst the circuit courts.

 

Overall, COVID is not good for business, and the large corporations that have tremendous influence over this country recognize that. America is a ruthlessly capitalistic country, and you can bet on vaccine mandates being deemed legal if unvaccinated employees (or individuals, generally) are deemed a potential threat to profits (hint: they are, which explains the recent about-face you've seen from certain politicians and media outlets ... big money has spoken).

You are thinking about enormous corporations that can simply hire new employees at the drop of a hat and have an entire legal department to deal with these matters.

I am more concerned about small businesses that can go under if hit with a 250k legal judgment. 

[NorEastermass128]

I think we can all agree that insurance companies just plain suck. Red, blue, purple, whatever your ideology. 

[powderfreak]

14 minutes ago, manchesterwx said:

America is a ruthlessly capitalistic country

 

9 minutes ago, NorEastermass128 said:

I think we can all agree that insurance companies just plain suck. Red, blue, purple, whatever your ideology. 

These statements resonate.  If you can make money or gain wealth, the people in this country try by any means available...even using the court system.  We are sue-happy, but still that can be hard to blame sometimes because mistakes happen.  It's like instant reply in sports.  Humans need that chance to look back on a spur-of-the-moment judgment call in real time.  That's what the court system does.  Hopefully it tries to follow the law as best as possible.  But money usually wins.  If only it was as cut and dry as an instant replay in sports.

[weathafella]

So I did a shopping run earlier this evening.   Costco, Whole Foods, some specialty items.   Old folks like me for the most part masked as did black people which maybe lends some credence on the low vaccination rate in that demographic?

[UMB WX]

41 minutes ago, forkyfork said:

 

said a bit back this wreaked of a stress test of the vaccines and unmasking.   Jabs are hitting  enough marks to helping keep hospitals in mainly ok shape, some quality of life back -  while keeping the economy going.   stuff is pretty effed up on so many levels.   the big fat cats don't give one single **** about any of us so you can betcha they're going to cover their asses at any cost and push for vax mandates if need be.

[Ginx snewx]

1 hour ago, forkyfork said:

 

You just proved how unwarranted your fear of the unvaxxed is. 

[Ginx snewx]

I love these field view shots. We creepin we crawlin

 

 

[amarshall]

NVAX earnings release yesterday 100% efficacy against delta variant.   4 x boosters on original covid. Absolutely criminal it's not FDA approved here. 

[HIPPYVALLEY]

9 hours ago, weathafella said:

So I did a shopping run earlier this evening.   Costco, Whole Foods, some specialty items.   Old folks like me for the most part masked as did black people which maybe lends some credence on the low vaccination rate in that demographic?

Did you notice any shortages are empty shelves?  
My job takes me to a few different supermarket chains and at least in this area there are definitely some gaps on the shelves right now.

[HIPPYVALLEY]

4 minutes ago, amarshall said:

NVAX earnings release yesterday 100% efficacy against delta variant.   4 x boosters on original covid. Absolutely criminal it's not FDA approved here. 

Politics and profits my friend.

[amarshall]

3 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

Politics and profits my friend.

Really good lobbyists for MRNA PFE JNJ

[STILL N OF PIKE]

14 minutes ago, amarshall said:

NVAX earnings release yesterday 100% efficacy against delta variant.   4 x boosters on original covid. Absolutely criminal it's not FDA approved here. 

You sold on a bad day but I would have sold 10x prior to that and made much less than you 

The protein subunit was touted as the best for over a year , just takes longer than the MRNA to produce 
 

it’s down 12% thou before the bell 

[Typhoon Tip]

13 hours ago, forkyfork said:

 

I've heard that 'Decapitall' can be an effective management tool for that as well -

[Typhoon Tip]

10 hours ago, forkyfork said:

 

"....Prolonged close contact with others"    - is that the new euphemism for that now ?

[Typhoon Tip]

11 hours ago, PhineasC said:

I don't think the government is going to mandate vaccines because it is just not that clear cut legally and there will be a lot of pushback. They will work through businesses, just like they work through businesses to violate people's free speech rights and spy on US citizens already.

You know... it's another way among many - take a nitpick at which ever doctrine - in which the genius of the Constitution's language engineers, in order to formulate a code more free of ambiguity ... could not have in fact foreseen how technology ( and it really is a technological influence -related matter.  Oh yes it is! ) would make so many of those turn of phrases increasingly obsolete. 

Ha!  "Best laid plans"  - seems like a whopper example for that aphorism.

The 2nd amendment used for guns permeating society, ... the reasoning foundation for that Amendment mmm it doesn't really apply in the same spirit, nor a very realistic risk assessing in society/culture.  But, that's a debate for a different internet fight.   People can't just say, "I want to shoot shit and feel secure and powerful behind my weapon,"  can they? 'Cause... that's not the spirit of the amendments cause and writ; yet that's the evading truth of the battle there.  Seems like Human's have this weird need to do that in every conflict: evade the truth of their wants and motivations at all times, then...asses if it's safe to admit, ...they reveal later on what it was they REALLY wanted all along. 

Here, how does the Government as a representation of the society population, impose sticking needles with a foreign substance into the arms of a 1763 philosopher's arm.   Now that's an interesting case right there... I don't think there is much language anywhere in the constitution that leverages against unvaxxed, frankly. In fact, constitutional law "could" be interpreted as 2nd Amen invocation against the "Armed Militia"   LOL

[amarshall]

27 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

You sold on a bad day but I would have sold 10x prior to that and made much less than you 

The protein subunit was touted as the best for over a year , just takes longer than the MRNA to produce 
 

it’s down 12% thou before the bell 

I'm holding still since nov 2019. Was tempted to put a stop at $200 and re-buy at $150