Met Summer Banter

[WhitinsvilleWX]

I think my company is setting us up for a vax mandate. The way the email was worded, it makes me think that the way out of masks at work is to mandate a vax.
They’ve been touting a September return to work. The email today said that was being backed off until late October or November. With the holidays, that will get backed  off till after the first of the year. No office people will come back to work en masse if they have to wear a mask after sitting on their a$$ at home for the last 18 months on Zoom.

In betting that the place will be a tomb tomorrow. We had a few non lab people back, but after today, they’ll be back on zoom. 

[PhineasC]

15 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

Ah, it’s both. What Phin said above is basically correct. Pharma takes govt money in the form of Medicare and Medicaid. If they don’t go along, we’ll…

I just find it funny that Pfizer going to mask mandate ms for vaxed office employees is tantamount to admitting their vax doesnt work. 

Certainly looks that way at first glance! Some really bad messaging out there right now if the goal is to convince skeptics to get the vaccine and reassure those who already got it that they made a good decision.

[WhitinsvilleWX]

6 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Certainly looks that way at first glance! Some really bad messaging out there right now if the goal is to convince skeptics to get the vaccine and reassure those who already got it that they made a good decision.

Well, I don’t REALLY think that’s what they’re saying. It’s just poor optics if they want people to take their vax. 

[Ginx snewx]

Snoop and Kevin Hart are hilarious with Olympics commentary. 

 

[fujiwara79]

I still find it hilarious how people thought masks were never coming back.  It was always the easiest thing to bring back.  i thought they'd come back in the fall, but this was even quicker than i expected.

the cdc guidance from may 13th will go down in infamy as one of the worst messaging blunders in history.  it'll be taught in schools decades from now as a case study in what you shouldn't do.

most non-influenza pandemics last 3-5 years...it'll be best for everyone's collective psyche to accept that reality.  maybe invest your Dogecoin in some innovative mask companies.

[PhineasC]

5 minutes ago, fujiwara79 said:

I still find it hilarious how people thought masks were never coming back.  It was always the easiest thing to bring back.  i thought they'd come back in the fall, but this was even quicker than i expected.

the cdc guidance from may 13th will go down in infamy as one of the worst messaging blunders in history.  it'll be taught in schools decades from now as a case study in what you shouldn't do.

most non-influenza pandemics last 3-5 years...it'll be best for everyone's collective psyche to accept that reality.  maybe invest your Dogecoin in some innovative mask companies.

You seem to enjoy hygiene theater. I guess it makes sense to you for vaccinated people to mask up around each other indefinitely?

[WhitinsvilleWX]

6 minutes ago, fujiwara79 said:

I still find it hilarious how people thought masks were never coming back.  It was always the easiest thing to bring back.  i thought they'd come back in the fall, but this was even quicker than i expected.

the cdc guidance from may 13th will go down in infamy as one of the worst messaging blunders in history.  it'll be taught in schools decades from now as a case study in what you shouldn't do.

most non-influenza pandemics last 3-5 years...it'll be best for everyone's collective psyche to accept that reality.  maybe invest your Dogecoin in some innovative mask companies.

How many hours a day do you wear yours?

[powderfreak]

35 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Masks, I agree with you. I could see that being done to reduce liability. Making someone wear a mask does not potentially endanger their well-being or violate their private medical self-determination. Or at least that would be easier to argue in court.

But forcing a medical procedure on someone who did not have that in their employment agreement (with the alternative being termination) is hugely problematic in my experience with labor laws. Many lawsuits are going to come out of this.

Yeah and just to be clear I don't really have a stance on it in this liability vs gov't interference, just musing some thoughts.  The masks seem "easy" and companies like easy ways to reduce liability.

For sure mandating vaccines is in a whole other ballpark.  I'm firm your body your choice on all angles so that's a hard no from me.  Now, get vaccinated or wear a mask like many companies have started doing (I know we talked about it with FOX news and other corporations), it's an incentive but it's not a forced deal.  I'm more lukewarm on that one.

Companies can make you do things, like wear a mask or wear a helmet (ski country requires a lot of helmet wearing) or wear a red shirt... but once they step into forced vaccinations I'm off the boat.

[WhitinsvilleWX]

4 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

You seem to enjoy hygiene theater. I guess it makes sense to you for vaccinated people to mask up around each other indefinitely?

It won’t affect me much outside of work unless I have to fly. 
I won’t wear one anymore. 

[powderfreak]

18 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Snoop and Kevin Hart are hilarious with Olympics commentary. 

 

My wife is addicted to their commentary on the Olympics.

[PhineasC]

7 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Yeah and just to be clear I don't really have a stance on it in this liability vs gov't interference, just musing some thoughts.  The masks seem "easy" and companies like easy ways to reduce liability.

For sure mandating vaccines is in a whole other ballpark.  I'm firm your body your choice on all angles so that's a hard no from me.  Now, get vaccinated or wear a mask like many companies have started doing (I know we talked about it with FOX news and other corporations), it's an incentive but it's not a forced deal.  I'm more lukewarm on that one.

Companies can make you do things, like wear a mask or wear a helmet (ski country requires a lot of helmet wearing) or wear a red shirt... but once they step into forced vaccinations I'm off the boat.

This is one of those times I wish I was a lawyer who specialized in wrongful termination cases. They are going to have a field day with this. Many easy settlements coming now. Just send a letter to the employer who fired your client over vaccination status and demand $100k.

[mreaves]

2 hours ago, powderfreak said:

COVID is out there somewhere.

7:15pm, perfect weather at 3,300ft.

Should get down by dark.

We sent out a search party and couldn't find it

[QCD17]

Not to pour water on the govt threats conspiracy, but I think companies are hearing from vaccinated employees that they don't want to be in buildings with unvaxxed employees.  In a state like Mass, where 64% are vaccinated, the majority of a company's employees are probably vaxxed and as HR starts doing "back to work" discussions with their management and employees, this may be something that comes up.  So if 10% of your workforce complains about not wanting to get jabbed, and 40% complain about having to sit next to someone that is not vaxxed, what do you do?  Then you also have to figure that a lot of people are looking for reasons to continue their work from home routine as well.

[PhineasC]

8 minutes ago, QCD17 said:

Not to pour water on the govt threats conspiracy, but I think companies are hearing from vaccinated employees that they don't want to be in buildings with unvaxxed employees.  In a state like Mass, where 64% are vaccinated, the majority of a company's employees are probably vaxxed and as HR starts doing "back to work" discussions with their management and employees, this may be something that comes up.  So if 10% of your workforce complains about not wanting to get jabbed, and 40% complain about having to sit next to someone that is not vaxxed, what do you do?  Then you also have to figure that a lot of people are looking for reasons to continue their work from home routine as well.

There is definitely some of that. I make the comment here sometimes that no matter what stance I take on this issue, 50% of my staff will be outraged and some will threaten to quit. That being said, since May we have had no issues with COVID concerns amongst the employees. Everyone seemed satisfied with where things landed after mask mandates were lifted. It's only recently that this issue has resurfaced. For my staff, mandating the vaccine would cause many more issues than it would solve and put me squarely in the middle as the bad guy.

[PhineasC]

But again, very few businesses have mandated vaccines yet. I don't think this is as widespread of an issue for Americans as the media paints it. Most Americans received the vaccine to protect themselves and are not trying to force others to get it. If this was a widespread concern, we would have seen businesses doing this all along since January.

[WhitinsvilleWX]

7 minutes ago, QCD17 said:

 Then you also have to figure that a lot of people are looking for reasons to continue their work from home routine as well.

Ding ding, we have a winner. 
I know some where I work that haven't  been in the building since March 2020. And with mandates today, they’re not likely back until 2022. That’s a solid 2 years sitting at home. Why would they want to come back.

But yea, we’ll have a vax mandate by the end of the year. That’s the only way we’ll get out of masks. I’m sure that’s the angle. 

[powderfreak]

2 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

Ding ding, we have a winner. 
I know some where I work that haven't  been in the building since March 2020. And with mandates today, they’re not likely back until 2022. That’s a solid 2 years sitting at home. Why would they want to come back.

But yea, we’ll have a vax mandate by the end of the year. That’s the only way we’ll get out of masks. I’m sure that’s the angle. 

Wait, your company has workers, even remote admin, accounting or HR functions, that haven’t returned to the office to be in those roles?   That’s still a thing?

[PhineasC]

Just now, powderfreak said:

Wait, your company has workers, even remote admin or HR functions, that haven’t returned to the office to be in those roles?   That’s still a thing?

LOL

It's still a huge thing down off the mountain.  

I can't get some people to come back. They simply refuse.

[fujiwara79]

6 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

How many hours a day do you wear yours?

I don't wear a mask these days.  but that reminds me, i should get a set of KN95s for the winter!

[PhineasC]

4 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

Ding ding, we have a winner. 
I know some where I work that haven't  been in the building since March 2020. And with mandates today, they’re not likely back until 2022. That’s a solid 2 years sitting at home. Why would they want to come back.

But yea, we’ll have a vax mandate by the end of the year. That’s the only way we’ll get out of masks. I’m sure that’s the angle. 

The issue with the logic here is that making people wear masks and socially-distance at work actually encourages teleworking, so that offsets any supposed gain to be had in reducing teleworking by mandating vaccines. I don't think people are not coming back to work due to vaccine status. I am not seeing that.

[WhitinsvilleWX]

3 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Wait, your company has workers, even remote admin, accounting or HR functions, that haven’t returned to the office to be in those roles?   That’s still a thing?

Lol. Dude, we have PhD scientists that manage projects and people who I haven’t seen in person in 17 months. We have a campus of 3000. On any given day there MIGHT  be 200 scattered across 10 buildings across eastern Massachusetts. 

[fujiwara79]

10 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

But again, very few businesses have mandated vaccines yet. I don't think this is as widespread of an issue for Americans as the media paints it. Most Americans received the vaccine to protect themselves and are not trying to force others to get it. If this was a widespread concern, we would have seen businesses doing this all along since January.

About 70% of people support vax mandates, including about 50% of republicans (to my surprise).  that's probably why you saw republican politicians criticizing anti-vaxxers last week, and employers starting to mandate them recently.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/565641-poll-68-percent-support-vaccine-mandate

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, fujiwara79 said:

About 70% of people support vax mandates, including about 50% of republicans (to my surprise).  that's probably why you saw republican politicians criticizing anti-vaxxers last week, and employers starting to mandate them recently.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/565641-poll-68-percent-support-vaccine-mandate

How often do you leave your house? Serious question. You sound like a hermit guy I know who is really into lockdowns, mandates, and the like. He isn't even affected because he is always home. He has been "on lockdown" for like 25 years straight already. 2020 was like a dream year for him. He was finally the normal one.

[TalcottWx]

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1422670464321822723?s=20

[WhitinsvilleWX]

10 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

The issue with the logic here is that making people wear masks and socially-distance at work actually encourages teleworking, so that offsets any supposed gain to be had in reducing teleworking by mandating vaccines. I don't think people are not coming back to work due to vaccine status. I am not seeing that.

Yes. The company wants them back, but the policies are just making them stay home. 
I could work from home at least 2days a week, maybe 3.  It my lab folks are there everyday. I’d be a pretty shitty boss if I just sat on my butt at home because I didnt want to wear a mask but made them come in since they can’t do lab work from their couch. 

[WhitinsvilleWX]

3 minutes ago, DotRat_Wx said:

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1422670464321822723?s=20

Lol. Never ends

[PhineasC]

4 minutes ago, DotRat_Wx said:

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1422670464321822723?s=20

But those rednecks in FL, amirite?

[PhineasC]

I find it hard to believe at this point there are still people out there clinging to the idea that if only we jab every man, woman and child in this country the pandemic will miraculously end, even if cases still exist. How does that even make sense now?

[powderfreak]

8 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

Lol. Dude, we have PhD scientists that manage projects and people who I haven’t seen in person in 17 months. We have a campus of 3000. On any given day there MIGHT  be 200 scattered across 10 buildings across eastern Massachusetts. 

Yeah wow, time to end that.  Even the 8-floors of corporate offices and shared workplaces (called the mothership) out in Denver are all admin, desk jobs and they’ve been back for many months.  Jobs that could be done remotely but returned once state’s vax status hit a given level.

[powderfreak]

13 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

Yes. The company wants them back, but the policies are just making them stay home. 
I could work from home at least 2days a week, maybe 3.  It my lab folks are there everyday. I’d be a pretty shitty boss if I just sat on my butt at home because I didnt want to wear a mask but made them come in since they can’t do lab work from their couch. 

I’d work for you.  I’ve always found that being in the trenches with the employees makes for a performing workforce.  Being remote, staying invisible, not interacting in person… that’s not a leader.  COVID not withstanding.