Met Summer Banter

[NorEastermass128]

2 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

We do have some prime contracts and sub contracts. We will have to see what happens. It will get really messy if they try to force it on all subcontractors, but they have forced many other things over the years (just no medical procedures).

I personally don't see them mandating the vaccine for contractors.

Looks likely for you. 
 

All federal employees and contractors will be required to be vaccinated against COVID, or be required to present regular testing results, a source with direct knowledge of the decision told CNN.

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

The groups that overlap have a strong distrust of authority and people in power.

The common theme is distrust and distaste for people of power.  Without getting too much into race, minorities dislike rich powerful white men telling them what they should do.  Personal freedom advocates share that distrust and dislike of authority, especially government authority. 

I think in future centuries the anthropologists and psychologists studying human cultural behavior will find minorities and personal freedom advocates overlapping in thought process quite a bit.

If humans can truly understand each other’s underlying reasoning for feeling a certain way, then we’ll all be better off.

Yeah, that's why I said a few days ago it probably won't be helpful in reaching either group to have white 20 somethings going door-to-door lecturing people on why the politicians and media really want them to get the vaccine.  

 

[Baroclinic Zone]

2 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It's rather weird. It's how the human species has survived every other disease like this, but now it's almost totally ignored in the public discourse.

It took far longer over the course of human evolution to develop immunities to many viruses/bacterial diseases.  It's called science with research and development of pharmaceuticals that have increase life expectancies by decades.  Couple that with changes in hygiene and other factors around how we live and we've almost doubled life expectancy in the US since the mid 1800's.  

[bristolri_wx]

Just now, HoarfrostHubb said:

Any theories on why the US has suffered the most (in terms of deaths). Maybe the data is false (we overreported and others underreported)?  Our lifestyles (travel etc).  

Lots of co-morbidities.  And I think there are huge gaps in our healthcare system that always get exposed in these types of scenarios.

[Hoosier]

12 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I feel like the virus will weaken but also bypass the vaccine more easily. It will end up similar to the flu, IMO. 40% effective or so. Lessens the impact of the flu for most. The data from the UK says that already delta was not a major deal. We are overreacting in this country.

The UK has something like 90% of their age 50+ vaccinated.  So even after adjusting for population differences, I think we will fare somewhat worse than they did, but the fatality numbers here will look a lot better than the previous waves. 

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, NorEastermass128 said:

Looks likely for you. 
 

All federal employees and contractors will be required to be vaccinated against COVID, or be required to present regular testing results, a source with direct knowledge of the decision told CNN.

Yeah, could be. If that's what happens we will just have to deal with it. It will be a huge mess and create massive legal headaches and logjams that will cost the government many billions of dollars. Woo hoo!

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

It took far longer over the course of human evolution to develop immunities to many viruses/bacterial diseases.  It's called science with research and development of pharmaceuticals that have increase life expectancies by decades.  Couple that with changes in hygiene and other factors around how we live and we've almost doubled life expectancy in the US since the mid 1800's.  

LOL at how sensitive some of you are about protecting the honor of the vaccines. Sheesh. Pfizer should be paying you guys for this.

Vaccines obviously play a large role in jump-starting the immunity process and they protect the vulnerable who can't afford to get sick with the herd. 

[NorEastermass128]

1 minute ago, Hoosier said:

The UK has something like 90% of their age 50+ vaccinated.  So even after adjusting for population differences, I think we will fare somewhat worse than they did, but the fatality numbers here will look a lot better than the previous waves. 

We’ll probably peak in the 600-800/day range sadly. Hope I’m wrong. 

[bristolri_wx]

10 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It's rather weird. It's how the human species has survived every other disease like this, but now it's almost totally ignored in the public discourse.

Most people want to live, not survive.

[HoarfrostHubb]

2 minutes ago, bristolri_wx said:

Lots of co-morbidities.  And I think there are huge gaps in our healthcare system that always get exposed in these types of scenarios.

Good point

[HoarfrostHubb]

2 minutes ago, bristolri_wx said:

Most people want to live, not survive.

the captain in WallE agrees 

https://youtu.be/sogCiISNdhg

 

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, bristolri_wx said:

Most people want to live, not survive.

The unvaccinated have been living just fine since March 2020. We flew on airplanes, ate out at restaurants, went to work, had fun.

It's still very possible to not even realize COVID exists. It barely ever registered up in Coos County, NH, for example.

[WhitinsvilleWX]

3 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Any theories on why the US has suffered the most (in terms of deaths). Maybe the data is false (we overreported and others underreported)?  Our lifestyles (travel etc).  

I honestly think it’s been over reported by a certain amount. The criteria for a Covid death is something like any death within 40 days of a positive test, I think? At any rate, it’s probably a little high. What percent, I have no idea. If you look at excess deaths over baseline, it’s pretty close. I also think the US had a load of people die in nursing homes. The stats I know of say that other countries don’t warehouse people in nursing homes like we do. Once all this shakes out, my guess is close to 40% died in LTC facilities.

[mreaves]

2 hours ago, Lava Rock said:

Checked the mixer valve and it's not that. Removed the tub drain and putty looks a little worn. Tried pouring water down drain to get ceiling to leak again, but wouldn't happen. Probably need to take a 10min wife shower to recreate. I'm just trying to determine if there is a leak in the joint up in the ceiling or at the drain around the putty. Don't want to tear into ceiling unless I know for sure.

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk
 

A wife shower to create the leak again or to “recreate” ?

[Typhoon Tip]

54 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

Probably still works unlike mine

Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk
 

May be the hand of an archeologist alien one future day 

[HoarfrostHubb]

3 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

LOL at how sensitive some of you are about protecting the honor of the vaccines. Sheesh. Pfizer should be paying you guys for this.

Vaccines obviously play a large role in jump-starting the immunity process and they protect the vulnerable who can't afford to get sick with the herd. 

Well, he is right. Think about human life expectancy since vaccines and modern medicine (it has many warts too) have come about.  500 years ago people were lucky to make it to 40.   
Now whether we are better for it is a whole other argument.  
 

I always heard from my parents how terrified people were of polio back in the 1950s before Salk. It was a miracle in their minds.  I am guessing a big difference here is that it (polio) attacked children and the survivors had visible indicators of their struggle (crutches etc). 

[powderfreak]

12 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Yeah, that's why I said a few days ago it probably won't be helpful in reaching either group to have white 20 somethings going door-to-door lecturing people on why the politicians and media really want them to get the vaccine.  

 

I’m totally with you on the reasoning.  That’s what I like discussing. Not whether or not someone is to blame or who’s reasoning is better than someone else’s.  No one is changing anyone’s opinion, let’s get that straight.  Let’s discuss the thoughts behind the reasoning.

It’s all about understanding the thought process.  Sending more white well-to-do young people to convince minorities definitely doesn’t seem to appreciate the reasoning.  Tone deaf.

[SouthCoastMA]

5 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

I honestly think it’s been over reported by a certain amount. The criteria for a Covid death is something like any death within 40 days of a positive test, I think? At any rate, it’s probably a little high. What percent, I have no idea. If you look at excess deaths over baseline, it’s pretty close. I also think the US had a load of people die in nursing homes. The stats I know of say that other countries don’t warehouse people in nursing homes like we do. Once all this shakes out, my guess is close to 40% died in LTC facilities.

I think the US number is close to accurate, if anything a tad high.  I believe many other countries have vastly underreported deaths; India, Brazil, Mexico, China (obviously), perhaps Russia. 

[WhitinsvilleWX]

2 minutes ago, SouthCoastMA said:

.  I believe many other countries have vastly underreported deaths; India, Brazil, Mexico, China (obviously), perhaps Russia. 

Agree 

[PhineasC]

It looks like the vaccine mandate announcement may be focused outside DoD. We will see what the DoD does on their end.

We do have some Federal work outside DoD but I can segregate it off.

I know we all love the vax here, but it is really not going to be fun trying to tell everyone they have to get vaccinated or get tested everyday and mask up. Enforcing this will be a nightmare beyond belief and probably barely move the vaccination needle anyway. Such dumb virtue signaling crap.

[Typhoon Tip]

36 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Time will tell but to quote you, we know how these viruses go.  They become less deadly as they mutate more and more.  I see these variants being able to be covered by the vaccines we have out and those in the pipeline.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-will-the-coronavirus-evolve/

 

I spoke at length about that months and months ago then what happens … it mutates [supposedly ] into an even more potently virulence -

Hmmm. Frustrating. Angering. Not a good optic

[TalcottWx]

Looks like mommy government controls phin after all

[fujiwara79]

Many people have left the workforce due to chronic covid issues.  It disproportionately affects women between the ages of 20 - 50, and in nearly all cases their acute covid illness was very mild, but chronic lingering symptoms afterward were much worse.  The business elites are actually more terrified of this because it could impact the labor force for years.

The medical community will probably gaslight these people, telling them it's "psychosomatic", just like they do for conditions like fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, or chronic lyme.  meanwhile, many of them will go on disability, even though they count as a "recovered" case in our casedemic. 

[powderfreak]

48 minutes ago, Tolland Death Band said:

The idea of an antibody test is just never talked about. We should have a national run on fingerpricks and a covid get out of jail card for it. I just don’t get it

I’m down.  Makes sense for sure.  Would people rebel against a nationwide fingerprick?  Seems if they were like “report to your local firehouse for a test” it still might get similar numbers of participation because power is telling you to do it.

[bristolri_wx]

8 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

The unvaccinated have been living just fine since March 2020. We flew on airplanes, ate out at restaurants, went to work, had fun.

It's still very possible to not even realize COVID exists. It barely ever registered up in Coos County, NH, for example.

Not really what I meant - you totally moved the goalposts there.

Survival (noun): the state or fact of continuing to live or exist, typically in spite of an accident, ordeal, or difficult circumstances.

Survival can involve a lot of misery.  Humanity survived the Black Plague.  But if I remember my history correctly, approximately 20 % of the world's population died from it.  Most people don't want to just "survive" they want to live a comfortable more peaceful life.

So yes, we've survived other pandemics and plagues in the past.  But why can't we want more than just survival?

[HoarfrostHubb]

Sorry to throw in a non Covid question here: 

Has Massachusetts had any confirmed tornadoes this year?  

[radarman]

35 minutes ago, bristolri_wx said:

I wish I had links but I don't.  I tend do a Google Scholar search when I read a normal news article that states "A study in the NEJM released today" blah blah blah.  Sometimes it's only abstracts though a lot of the COVID stuff has been published full text online, especially before it's fully peer reviewed.

Absolutely don't mean this personally but just as we need data for (likely erroneous) claims like vaccines are killing folks, causing infertility, etc., etc., we need data for this too. 

Here's some for example.  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1005517/Technical_Briefing_19.pdf

Very up to date stats, no editorializing, from England showing that individuals with one or more jabs were responsible for >30% of recent infections  (~10% 2 jabs + 2 weeks) whereas all possible reinfection cases are 1.2%, with actually confirmed reinfections a third of that.  I have an open mind here, but I certainly don't give media and politicians the benefit of the doubt if they aren't going to have the courtesy to point us to the studies that suggest reinfection risk is notable compared to the post vaccine risk.

 

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, bristolri_wx said:

Not really what I meant - you totally moved the goalposts there.

Survival (noun): the state or fact of continuing to live or exist, typically in spite of an accident, ordeal, or difficult circumstances.

Survival can involve a lot of misery.  Humanity survived the Black Plague.  But if I remember my history correctly, approximately 20 % of the world's population died from it.  Most people don't want to just "survive" they want to live a comfortable more peaceful life.

So yes, we've survived other pandemics and plagues in the past.  But why can't we want more than just survival?

I am not against the vaccines at all. They work and are safe. I have never argued that. I get the flu vaccine every year.

But natural immunity to COVID is a real thing. Some seem to be so into vaccines that they act like natural immunity doesn't exist at all for COVID and paint this as strictly a vaxxed and unvaxxed issue. It plays into the us vs them fight.

[SouthCoastMA]

7 minutes ago, fujiwara79 said:

Many people have left the workforce due to chronic covid issues.  It disproportionately affects women between the ages of 20 - 50, and in nearly all cases their acute covid illness was very mild, but chronic lingering symptoms afterward were much worse.  The business elites are actually more terrified of this because it could impact the labor force for years.

The medical community will probably gaslight these people, telling them it's "psychosomatic", just like they do for conditions like fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, or chronic lyme.  meanwhile, many of them will go on disability, even though they count as a "recovered" case in our casedemic. 

Good post. My wife has been living with post covid effects going on 16 months now. 

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, radarman said:

Absolutely don't mean this personally but just as we need data for (likely erroneous) claims like vaccines are killing folks, causing infertility, etc., etc., we need data for this too. 

Here's some for example.  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1005517/Technical_Briefing_19.pdf

Very up to date stats, no editorializing, from England showing that individuals with one or more jabs were responsible for >30% of infections  (~10% 2 jabs + 2 weeks) whereas all possible reinfection cases are 1.2%, with actually confirmed reinfections a third of that.  I have an open mind here, but I certainly don't give media and politicians the benefit of the doubt if they aren't going to have the courtesy to point us to the studies that suggest reinfection risk is notable compared to the post vaccine risk.

 

I think it's clear that the politicians and media decided the best way to beat COVID was to scare the crap out of everyone and make it seem like the choice was vaccine or a slow death.

There has been next to no talk about natural immunity, the hundreds of millions of people who got a mild case and recover, and the fact that these viruses usually mutate to become weaker. 

Natural immunity is surely quite effective against this virus, but telling people that would affect the vaccination numbers.