Met Summer Banter

[PhineasC]

3 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

A while back (I could be wrong) I believe you posted that if full FDA approval went though you would consider it.   Has that changed?  

Yes, we will get it eventually. We will get the flu vaccine this year like we do every year and our kids receive all of the usual vaccines. I still want to see what is going on with boosters and the variants over this fall. The idea that getting vaxxed means you still have to mask up ad can spread it around to people is not moving the needle for me to get the vaccine sooner than later, though.

[HoarfrostHubb]

That’s understandable.    The masking stuff is pissing me off.   I get it.  But I don’t like it.    

[PhineasC]

Doesn't look like any governors are moving quickly based on the CDC guidance yet? I'm sure we all remember how fast they moved in May in the other direction. 

Hopefully this remains a very localized thing that is turned on and off as needed.

[Baroclinic Zone]

1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

We are on the letter D...

Let's see how Omega COVID looks for you guys.

Time will tell but to quote you, we know how these viruses go.  They become less deadly as they mutate more and more.  I see these variants being able to be covered by the vaccines we have out and those in the pipeline.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-will-the-coronavirus-evolve/

 

[HoarfrostHubb]

5 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Doesn't look like any governors are moving quickly based on the CDC guidance yet? I'm sure we all remember how fast they moved in May in the other direction. 

Hopefully this remains a very localized thing that is turned on and off as needed.

That is how it should proceed.  Let the mandates be more surgical and localized IMHO.  Local leaders really need to watch it though.  Don’t call for mandates if not needed but also install them if things start going sideways.  

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

That’s understandable.    The masking stuff is pissing me off.   I get it.  But I don’t like it.    

It's definitely become a heated issue for some of us in unvaccinated land. I do not believe in microchips or anything like that. But I really don't like the idea that the government will punish me in some way for not complying and the vaxx vs unvaxx stuff is also making it easier to stand firm on this side of the aisle. I don't think that's a good approach for the authorities to be taking. The unvaccinated out there tend to be happiest when they perceive that they are facing down an overreaching government; they are just wired that way. This stuff from the politicians and media plays right into the mythos for many of them. They are a last bastion of free people standing against something on principle. That the vaccinated are possibly losing the few carrots they had (no masks) just reinforces it.

[WhitinsvilleWX]

9 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

lol, 50%?  We're still at ~85-90% on the most contagious variant out there.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/06/30/1011684609/moderna-says-studies-show-its-vaccine-is-effective-against-the-delta-variant

https://www.forbes.com/sites/leahrosenbaum/2021/07/27/how-good-are-covid-19-vaccines-at-protecting-against-the-delta-variant/?sh=537ed2fb1a6f

https://www.jnj.com/positive-new-data-for-johnson-johnson-single-shot-covid-19-vaccine-on-activity-against-delta-variant-and-long-lasting-durability-of-response

Just so people know. The dTap vaccine are for bacteria. Tetanus, pertussis, and diphtheria are caused by toxins from bacteria. Bacteria are easy to vaccinate against. They don't really mutate.

Measles virus is pretty stable, but it’s still “only” 90% effective. Rubella is around 90%, mumps 75%, polio is around 90%. But they are that high because there’s not much of that virus that circulates because kids were vaccinated against those since the 50’s and 60’s. If COVID virus circulated at those levels, there would be very little break through infection. Covid vaccines stop infection too. Breakthrough infections are minuscule compared to the total number of people vaxed.

[PhineasC]

3 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Time will tell but to quote you, we know how these viruses go.  They become less deadly as they mutate more and more.  I see these variants being able to be covered by the vaccines we have out and those in the pipeline.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-will-the-coronavirus-evolve/

 

I feel like the virus will weaken but also bypass the vaccine more easily. It will end up similar to the flu, IMO. 40% effective or so. Lessens the impact of the flu for most. The data from the UK says that already delta was not a major deal. We are overreacting in this country.

[NorEastermass128]

1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

It's definitely become a heated issue for some of us in unvaccinated land. I do not believe in microchips or anything like that. But I really don't like the idea that the government will punish me in some way for not complying and the vaxx vs unvaxx stuff is also making it easier to stand firm on this side of the aisle. I don't think that's a good approach for the authorities to be taking. The unvaccinated out there tend to be happiest when they perceive that they are facing down an overreaching government; they are just wired that way. This stuff from the politicians and media plays right into the mythos for many of them. They are a last bastion of free people standing against something on principle. That the vaccinated are possibly losing the few carrots they had (no masks) just reinforces it.

Does your company work on federal contracts?  I believe that makes you a federal contractor. How will you approach the vaccine mandate or mandatory testing that will be announced on Thursday?

[TalcottWx]

Just now, NorEastermass128 said:

Does your company work on federal contracts?  I believe that makes you a federal contractor. How will you approach the vaccine mandate or mandatory testing that will be announced on Thursday?

[bristolri_wx]

21 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It's also still so weird to me that in all of this debate, no one ever talks about natural immunity anymore. It's either vax or no vax. Surely by now many millions of people have natural immunity?

From the studies I've read, natural immunity is fine vs the variant you have had, not as much vs other variants. And there is concern as to ho long immunity lasts, since coronavirus as a viral family also contain virus that also produce some "colds".

We'll know more as time goes on.  There's tons of ongoing studies looking at duration and effectiveness of immunity (as well as vaccinations) right now.  So far studies show immunity plus the vaccine as a booster is very effective in preventing yourself from getting ill, even with delta.

[WhitinsvilleWX]

6 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Doesn't look like any governors are moving quickly based on the CDC guidance yet? I'm sure we all remember how fast they moved in May in the other direction. 

Hopefully this remains a very localized thing that is turned on and off as needed.

They won’t. They’ll leave it up to locals. There’s not enough hospitalizations and deaths around here to see widespread mandates. 
I read that out of the 750 plus positives  that were contract traced from p-town, only 3 went to the hospital, 2 got released after a day, and no deaths. So they masked up p-town for cases, nothing more. 

[PhineasC]

Just now, NorEastermass128 said:

Does your company work on federal contracts?  I believe that makes you a federal contractor. How will you approach the vaccine mandate or mandatory testing that will be announced on Thursday?

Yes.

I am not sure how we will handle it. If it is mandated for us, we will have to comply. I am not going to go out in a blaze of glory over it.

I have received no guidance from the government or my prime contractors yet, but it's coming I'm sure.

As has been the case all along, 50% of my employees will demand I vax everyone immediately or they will quit, and 50% will demand I ban all vaccines immediately or they will quit.

[HoarfrostHubb]

1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

I feel like the virus will weaken but also bypass the vaccine more easily. It will end up similar to the flu, IMO. 40% effective or so. Lessens the impact of the flu for most. The data from the UK says that already delta was not a major deal. We are overreacting in this country.

I’m hoping that the success in the mRNA vaccines for Covid will lead to more effective vaccines against things like the flu.  Not sure if it can be targeted like that    

[Tolland Death Band]

25 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It's also still so weird to me that in all of this debate, no one ever talks about natural immunity anymore. It's either vax or no vax. Surely by now many millions of people have natural immunity?

The idea of an antibody test is just never talked about. We should have a national run on fingerpricks and a covid get out of jail card for it. I just don’t get it

[PhineasC]

1 minute ago, bristolri_wx said:

From the studies I've read, natural immunity is fine vs the variant you have had, not as much vs other variants. And there is concern as to ho long immunity lasts, since coronavirus as a viral family also contain virus that also produce some "colds".

We'll know more as time goes on.  There's tons of ongoing studies looking at duration and effectiveness of immunity (as well as vaccinations) right now.  So far studies show immunity plus the vaccine as a booster is very effective in preventing yourself from getting ill, even with delta.

Natural immunity better be a thing or we will never escape this. Much of the third world will never be vaccinated and even many Americans who were vaccinated the first time will skip the second time around.

[PhineasC]

Just now, Tolland Death Band said:

The idea of an antibody test is just never talked about. We should have a national run on fingerpricks and a covid get out of jail card for it. I just don’t get it

It's rather weird. It's how the human species has survived every other disease like this, but now it's almost totally ignored in the public discourse.

[radarman]

2 minutes ago, bristolri_wx said:

From the studies I've read, natural immunity is fine vs the variant you have had, not as much vs other variants. And there is concern as to ho long immunity lasts, since coronavirus as a viral family also contain virus that also produce some "colds".

We'll know more as time goes on.  There's tons of ongoing studies looking at duration and effectiveness of immunity (as well as vaccinations) right now.  So far studies show immunity plus the vaccine as a booster is very effective in preventing yourself from getting ill, even with delta.

please do link

[WhitinsvilleWX]

2 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

I’m hoping that the success in the mRNA vaccines for Covid will lead to more effective vaccines against things like the flu.  Not sure if it can be targeted like that    

It can 

[NorEastermass128]

1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

Yes.

I am not sure how we will handle it. If it is mandated for us, we will have to comply. I am not going to go out in a blaze of glory over it.

I have received no guidance from the government or my prime contractors yet, but it's coming I'm sure.

As has been the case all along, 50% of my employees will demand I vax everyone immediately or they will quit, and 50% will demand I ban all vaccines immediately or they will quit.

Are you only the sub on the federal contracts you work on as in you have no privity of contract with the govt?  I guess the govt may force the prime to force the mandate on its subs.  Lawyers sharpening their pencils as we speak. 

[Baroclinic Zone]

5 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I feel like the virus will weaken but also bypass the vaccine more easily. It will end up similar to the flu, IMO. 40% effective or so. Lessens the impact of the flu for most. The data from the UK says that already delta was not a major deal. We are overreacting in this country.

Perhaps but to sit idly by is not effective either.

[bristolri_wx]

Just now, PhineasC said:

Natural immunity better be a thing or we will never escape this. Much of the third world will never be vaccinated and even many Americans who were vaccinated the first time will skip the second time around.

But I think yourself and others are already latching on to the fact that as this virus mutates over time, it will get milder and milder - as you said, similar to the flu.

I think natural immunity plays a role in that, definitely.  The immunes systems natural protections nudge viruses to evolve into weaker versions over time.  It's kind of a cat and mouse game.  I have a friend who is an epidemiologist and they are on board with that theory as well - pending research of course.  But it's trending that way...

[NorEastermass128]

1 minute ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

It can 

I bought some stock betting on the mRNA vaccines, so expect them to flop lol

[SouthCoastMA]

40 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

I dunno. Maybe, maybe not. I’ll be honest, I’m a trump voter twice over and would do it again. His tweets didn’t  hurt my feelings. Not all trump voters are anti vax. Hell he touts he invented it ( kinda like gore invented the internet). You’d think every trump voter would stand in line all night to get it. 

No I agree..most of the covid vaccine resistance has been between the 18-35 demo..hardly anywhere near the average Trump supporter age. Though I still think a decent percentage would go get it because he said so. Maybe it's 5%, maybe it's 10. And maybe that % already did. 

[HoarfrostHubb]

1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

It's rather weird. It's how the human species has survived every other disease like this, but now it's almost totally ignored in the public discourse.

We will survive for sure.  That’s not an issue.  This is nothing as far as the species continuing    Not sure what will do this species in (meteor, nukes, prob AI) but it won’t be this thing

[powderfreak]

42 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Every Trump person I know over the age of 50 is vaccinated. Trump talks about getting the vaccine all the time.

Many minorities aren't getting vaccinated but that is an inconvenient truth many ignore.

The groups that overlap have a strong distrust of authority and people in power.

The common theme in unvaccinated is clearly distrust and distaste for authority. Without getting too much into race, minorities dislike rich powerful white men telling them what they should do (been happening for a while).  Personal freedom advocates share that distrust and dislike of authority, especially government (nanny state).

I think in future centuries the anthropologists and psychologists studying human cultural behavior will find minorities and personal freedom advocates overlap in thought process quite a bit regarding vaccines.

If humans can truly understand each other’s underlying reasoning for feeling a certain way, then we’ll all be better off.

[PhineasC]

Just now, NorEastermass128 said:

Are you only the sub on the federal contracts you work on as in you have no privity of contract with the govt?  I guess the govt may force the prime to force the mandate on its subs.  Lawyers sharpening their pencils as we speak. 

We do have some prime contracts and sub contracts. We will have to see what happens. It will get really messy if they try to force it on all subcontractors, but they have forced many other things over the years (just no medical procedures).

I personally don't see them mandating the vaccine for contractors.

[SouthCoastMA]

34 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Every Trump person I know over the age of 50 is vaccinated. Trump talks about getting the vaccine all the time.

Many minorities aren't getting vaccinated but that is an inconvenient truth many ignore.

Yeah I agree with this. I was half joking with that post. 

[HoarfrostHubb]

Any theories on why the US has suffered the most (in terms of deaths). Maybe the data is false (we overreported and others underreported)?  Our lifestyles (travel etc).  

[bristolri_wx]

4 minutes ago, radarman said:

please do link

I wish I had links but I don't.  I tend do a Google Scholar search when I read a normal news article that states "A study in the NEJM released today" blah blah blah.  Sometimes it's only abstracts though a lot of the COVID stuff has been published full text online, especially before it's fully peer reviewed.