At Least The 12th Lawn Thread

[Ginx snewx]

9 hours ago, DavisStraight said:

When do you guys plant your veggies outside? I'm enlarging my garden this year, last year I got a late start but want to start early this year, just not too early.

Lettuce cabbage early May. All others Memorial day weekend or after the last full moon in May

[tamarack]

10 hours ago, Ginx snewx said:

Lettuce cabbage early May. All others Memorial day weekend or after the last full moon in May

Carrots and greens mid-late May, generally put the 1st row of beans in a few days prior to June 1 and the tomatoes/peppers/cucurbits 1st week of June.  Had 27° on June 1 last year but that was the first June frost since 2007.  I plant 5 rows of beans at 1-2 week intervals as we prefer them straight off the bush.  Some years they produce faster than we can eat them so some get processed for the freezer.
I've tracked the full moons against late and early frosts and have found no skill.  In Ft Kent the frosts were usually related to the full moon part of the cycle, in Gardiner just the opposite and here it's neither.

[Lava Rock]

Grubex going down this wknd. Already saw some of the little bastards.

[DavisStraight]

6 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

Grubex going down this wknd. Already saw some of the little bastards.

I lost almost 10k feet of lawn one year to those little bastards, the animals love to eat them and just destroyed my lawn digging them up.  I just got my lawn to the point where it looked great, had to truck in a lot of loam and reseed, now I religiously treat every year,

[mreaves]

33 minutes ago, DavisStraight said:

I lost almost 10k feet of lawn one year to those little bastards, the animals love to eat them and just destroyed my lawn digging them up.  I just got my lawn to the point where it looked great, had to truck in a lot of loam and reseed, now I religiously treat every year,

We had that issue at our golf course a couple of years ago, big slabs of turf ripped up.  Luckily it was only in an area of rough.

[QCD17]

I used to be on board with having a perfect green lawn, and I also worked for several residential irrigation companies for about 6 seasons, so it was my job to maintain beautiful lawns for hundreds of other people as well.  When we moved to our current house a few years ago, I realized that the 3 acres of lawn I had inherited was going to be too much work to treat/maintain.  We are also on a well and we have small kids and chickens, so it seemed like a good idea to not start pumping chemicals into the ground, but I absolutely hated the amount of weeds everywhere.  As I've done more research, I now firmly believe that a perfect lawn that is weed free and a vibrant green mix of KBG/Fescue/Rye/etc s actually a toxic wasteland that is not great for the local environment.  The amount of chemicals that have to be dumped onto them to maintain them and the fact that those chemicals don't just evaporate but stay in the ground or are taken up by nature is alarming when you think of how many lawns there are in the US. Not to mention how destructive it is to actually make those chemicals in the first place, like what we are seeing with the huge leak at the abandoned phosphate plant down in Tampa.  Water demands are constant, and you are essentially offering zero nutritional value to nature.  Even your grass clippings are filled with chemicals and shouldn't be used for mulch, but instead left to rot in the corner of your yard and leach chemicals.

There was an interesting article I came across that said farmers/gardeners used to cherish a good mixture of clover in their lawns.  Clover is nitrogen fixing and when mixed with grass seed it will provide a good supply of nitrogen into the soil for the grass.  It also tolerates heat and drought better than grass, chokes out weeds, and provides food for pollinators. But in the 1940's (or sometime around then), the big chemical companies couldn't figure out how to make a weed killer that didn't also kill clover, so they simply labeled clover as a weed and here we are today.  I have since started mixing in dutch white clover around the yard and it has done very well.  I don't put down lime, I rarely water except for maybe one or two weeks in August if areas get burned out around the house.  Zero chemicals.  The lawn is greening up great right now.  In about a week or two the lawn will be a sea of dandelions, and it will look amazing and the bees will be extremely happy.  Then those will get mowed down and I'll let the grass grow on the high side (3.5-4") to choke out some of the weeds for a few weeks.  The clover will then start blossoming out and I'll start cutting it back closer to 2.5-3" through summer.  Large sections of the lawn have been seeded with wildflowers and will be uncut until the fall.  This also cuts down on areas I have to mow, as it currently takes me 2 hours on my 61" zero turn at full speed to cut everything, and that's before I break out the trimmer for edges/walls. 

I know what I'm doing is not for everyone, as there is still a strong mindset about what a lawn is expected to look like, as well as "curb appeal" of a house.  But I think more people will start to move away from the traditional lawn as we keep seeing more drought/pollution issues.  But if you're on the fence, I would highly recommend giving it a try in a section of your lawn and seeing what happens. 

[dendrite]

48 minutes ago, QCD17 said:

I used to be on board with having a perfect green lawn, and I also worked for several residential irrigation companies for about 6 seasons, so it was my job to maintain beautiful lawns for hundreds of other people as well.  When we moved to our current house a few years ago, I realized that the 3 acres of lawn I had inherited was going to be too much work to treat/maintain.  We are also on a well and we have small kids and chickens, so it seemed like a good idea to not start pumping chemicals into the ground, but I absolutely hated the amount of weeds everywhere.  As I've done more research, I now firmly believe that a perfect lawn that is weed free and a vibrant green mix of KBG/Fescue/Rye/etc s actually a toxic wasteland that is not great for the local environment.  The amount of chemicals that have to be dumped onto them to maintain them and the fact that those chemicals don't just evaporate but stay in the ground or are taken up by nature is alarming when you think of how many lawns there are in the US. Not to mention how destructive it is to actually make those chemicals in the first place, like what we are seeing with the huge leak at the abandoned phosphate plant down in Tampa.  Water demands are constant, and you are essentially offering zero nutritional value to nature.  Even your grass clippings are filled with chemicals and shouldn't be used for mulch, but instead left to rot in the corner of your yard and leach chemicals.

There was an interesting article I came across that said farmers/gardeners used to cherish a good mixture of clover in their lawns.  Clover is nitrogen fixing and when mixed with grass seed it will provide a good supply of nitrogen into the soil for the grass.  It also tolerates heat and drought better than grass, chokes out weeds, and provides food for pollinators. But in the 1940's (or sometime around then), the big chemical companies couldn't figure out how to make a weed killer that didn't also kill clover, so they simply labeled clover as a weed and here we are today.  I have since started mixing in dutch white clover around the yard and it has done very well.  I don't put down lime, I rarely water except for maybe one or two weeks in August if areas get burned out around the house.  Zero chemicals.  The lawn is greening up great right now.  In about a week or two the lawn will be a sea of dandelions, and it will look amazing and the bees will be extremely happy.  Then those will get mowed down and I'll let the grass grow on the high side (3.5-4") to choke out some of the weeds for a few weeks.  The clover will then start blossoming out and I'll start cutting it back closer to 2.5-3" through summer.  Large sections of the lawn have been seeded with wildflowers and will be uncut until the fall.  This also cuts down on areas I have to mow, as it currently takes me 2 hours on my 61" zero turn at full speed to cut everything, and that's before I break out the trimmer for edges/walls. 

I know what I'm doing is not for everyone, as there is still a strong mindset about what a lawn is expected to look like, as well as "curb appeal" of a house.  But I think more people will start to move away from the traditional lawn as we keep seeing more drought/pollution issues.  But if you're on the fence, I would highly recommend giving it a try in a section of your lawn and seeing what happens. 

Amen. I have chickens so I let the dutch white clover go wild. I'm trying to plant some out front now where the grass struggles more. Do you just spread it over the lawn and let it germinate on its own? I tried spreading some last year during the summer, but maybe the dry conditions prohibited it. I want to get it down before the storm later this week. The top soil is pretty poor out there so maybe it won't even grow without some soil/compost added.

[CoastalWx]

I can't deal with weeds and dandies running wild. 

[QCD17]

1 hour ago, dendrite said:

Amen. I have chickens so I let the dutch white clover go wild. I'm trying to plant some out front now where the grass struggles more. Do you just spread it over the lawn and let it germinate on its own? I tried spreading some last year during the summer, but maybe the dry conditions prohibited it. I want to get it down before the storm later this week. The top soil is pretty poor out there so maybe it won't even grow without some soil/compost added.

I've mostly applied it in areas where the existing lawn had lost the battle to crabgrass and larger weeds, so I raked out as much of the weeds/crabgrass as possible, which also loosened up the soil a bit, and then just spread clover seed by hand in the spring after the last frost and kept it wet. It germinated pretty quickly - usually faster than grass seed, as I did put some grass down in the really bare spots so that it was just pure clover.  It seems that it won't do much the first year but by the second year it really fills in nicely.  Areas I seeded last spring have come up with nice clover so far this spring.  I also seeded a few spots last fall with grass/clover mixes where I had removed some shrubs and a small gazebo and they got a bit burned out during a dry spell but the clover looks like it is doing fine now, so I think you can do both spring and fall with no problem. 

Top dressing on existing lawn might be tricky unless you can really dethatch or rake it out a bit to expose some soil.  In the past I've filled in spots with peat moss, and then sprinkled seed on top of it and watered it.  The peat moss will give it an immediate area to root in and hold water better than just putting it on the dirt.  But if you're doing a large area this is going to be a pain in the ass!

[QCD17]

Just now, CoastalWx said:

I can't deal with weeds and dandies running wild. 

I hear you!  It would take me 40 minutes to walk across the yard because I would inevitably stop and pull out a weed and then two, and then two buckets later I would forget what I had come outside for.  But I will say that the combo of grass and clover has helped to keep a lot of the broadleaf stuff from coming up.  The dandelions aren't native and they spread like crazy, so I understand why people hate them, but they are fairly short lived here and I try and mow them aggressively while they are flowering before they go to seed.  Having 40 or 50 in a smaller lawn can look bad, I totally get it.  But having several thousand over a large area actually looks nice after a dark and muddy winter.  We do have a LOT of bees once it's all in bloom, though, but we haven't been stung.  But definitely something to consider if anyone is allergic.

[backedgeapproaching]

We mow....we snow? First cut, didn't take much off..more of a clean up mow. Still snow mold patches too.

 

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

Dropped 200 pounds of lime and 200 pounds of Milorganite tonight in anticipation of the rain.

[Chrisrotary12]

All I want to know is the snow good for my lawn seed? Has to be right.....just water.

[backedgeapproaching]

3 minutes ago, Chrisrotary12 said:

All I want to know is the snow good for my lawn seed? Has to be right.....just water.

Yes.

[BrianW]

On 4/13/2021 at 8:50 PM, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Dropped 200 pounds of lime and 200 pounds of Milorganite tonight in anticipation of the rain.

I tried out the Ecoscraps brand from Home Depot which I guess is the same product as Milorganite. Seems to be working great. Its my first time trying it as we just got a puppy so wanted something safe for him.

Nice green up underway here on the CT shoreline with many trees leafing out.

 

[backedgeapproaching]

Going to spray this once things dry out a bit..see how it goes...

[Typhoon Tip]

On 4/13/2021 at 8:02 AM, QCD17 said:

I used to be on board with having a perfect green lawn, and I also worked for several residential irrigation companies for about 6 seasons, so it was my job to maintain beautiful lawns for hundreds of other people as well.  When we moved to our current house a few years ago, I realized that the 3 acres of lawn I had inherited was going to be too much work to treat/maintain.  We are also on a well and we have small kids and chickens, so it seemed like a good idea to not start pumping chemicals into the ground, but I absolutely hated the amount of weeds everywhere.  As I've done more research, I now firmly believe that a perfect lawn that is weed free and a vibrant green mix of KBG/Fescue/Rye/etc s actually a toxic wasteland that is not great for the local environment.  The amount of chemicals that have to be dumped onto them to maintain them and the fact that those chemicals don't just evaporate but stay in the ground or are taken up by nature is alarming when you think of how many lawns there are in the US. Not to mention how destructive it is to actually make those chemicals in the first place, like what we are seeing with the huge leak at the abandoned phosphate plant down in Tampa.  Water demands are constant, and you are essentially offering zero nutritional value to nature.  Even your grass clippings are filled with chemicals and shouldn't be used for mulch, but instead left to rot in the corner of your yard and leach chemicals.

There was an interesting article I came across that said farmers/gardeners used to cherish a good mixture of clover in their lawns.  Clover is nitrogen fixing and when mixed with grass seed it will provide a good supply of nitrogen into the soil for the grass.  It also tolerates heat and drought better than grass, chokes out weeds, and provides food for pollinators. But in the 1940's (or sometime around then), the big chemical companies couldn't figure out how to make a weed killer that didn't also kill clover, so they simply labeled clover as a weed and here we are today.  I have since started mixing in dutch white clover around the yard and it has done very well.  I don't put down lime, I rarely water except for maybe one or two weeks in August if areas get burned out around the house.  Zero chemicals.  The lawn is greening up great right now.  In about a week or two the lawn will be a sea of dandelions, and it will look amazing and the bees will be extremely happy.  Then those will get mowed down and I'll let the grass grow on the high side (3.5-4") to choke out some of the weeds for a few weeks.  The clover will then start blossoming out and I'll start cutting it back closer to 2.5-3" through summer.  Large sections of the lawn have been seeded with wildflowers and will be uncut until the fall.  This also cuts down on areas I have to mow, as it currently takes me 2 hours on my 61" zero turn at full speed to cut everything, and that's before I break out the trimmer for edges/walls. 

I know what I'm doing is not for everyone, as there is still a strong mindset about what a lawn is expected to look like, as well as "curb appeal" of a house.  But I think more people will start to move away from the traditional lawn as we keep seeing more drought/pollution issues.  But if you're on the fence, I would highly recommend giving it a try in a section of your lawn and seeing what happens. 

You know ...a-heh, I came in here to plunk in an entirely different observation, but your write up is too 'softly' disturbing, as much as it is captivating - namely because it hearkens to a recent study I was reading over in the Earth link of Phys.org's encyclopedia of various paraphrased scientific papers. 

It was regarding a slow moving apocalypse ( maybe  ...), one that no agency or individuals of ubiquity really are even aware - not popularized yet by big media's telling us what we should care about ... give it time. But apparently ... males of Industrial extraction, globally .. regardless of racial or ethnic distinction, have shrinking testicles, penises, and sperm counts.   Yup ... But their lawns or Ireland dreams - ha ha, call it the Ireland Revenge for the Irish Curse -

The study ( and there are more...) focus on ambient/environment pollution from anthropomorphic, western civility activity spanning generations ...and apparently as you are intimating, having a cumulative non-degenerative presents in the background biota is now impacting on male reproductive health - it's probably not just humans, common sense and biological awareness notwithstanding...  

just find your comments interesting ( bold above ..); although it may not ( or may ..) be involved/linkable to this other arena of science, it all still eerily hearkens to the ills and poor forsights of human ingenuity spanning the past century's hockey-stick leaps of "advancement" - it's like we've advanced our own demise, while we continue to assume and conceit in our "conquering" nature's domain - fascinating.  Don't tell the hipsters that "Gaia" isn't onto us - we have a population over -abundance of abusing mouths and Industrial farters ... so, cut their nuts ... population corrects.  Piece of cake -

But enough with the gaslighting sermon -

So the snow that fell for this recent event is all but completely vanquished already from the lawns and fields around town here in Ayer, but all these area expanses .. it seems as the snow receded it exposed a flashing over to this amazing emerald green - really pops!  There's something about that snow that was the "real" fertilizer - ironically... - just like a magic potion. It's really amazing that noticeable difference. 

I've heard of the expression, "Farmer's Gold" growing up in the Midwest ... pertaining to snow events in April but wow -

[moneypitmike]

Does anyone have recommendations for a nursery in Worcester/Middlesex Counties that sells, delivers, and plants fairly mature bushes/trees? Not looking for huge things, but still like 7-8' mountain laurels.

Thanks!

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

First mow in the books.... mulch was 5 for 10 at Home Depot so I went to grab a few bags... wife saw a “magnolia Jane” tree that she had to have.... another 50$ out the window 

[Damage In Tolland]

On 4/13/2021 at 1:24 PM, CoastalWx said:

I can't deal with weeds and dandies running wild. 

No one can . We kill

[Damage In Tolland]

On 4/13/2021 at 11:02 AM, QCD17 said:

I used to be on board with having a perfect green lawn, and I also worked for several residential irrigation companies for about 6 seasons, so it was my job to maintain beautiful lawns for hundreds of other people as well.  When we moved to our current house a few years ago, I realized that the 3 acres of lawn I had inherited was going to be too much work to treat/maintain.  We are also on a well and we have small kids and chickens, so it seemed like a good idea to not start pumping chemicals into the ground, but I absolutely hated the amount of weeds everywhere.  As I've done more research, I now firmly believe that a perfect lawn that is weed free and a vibrant green mix of KBG/Fescue/Rye/etc s actually a toxic wasteland that is not great for the local environment.  The amount of chemicals that have to be dumped onto them to maintain them and the fact that those chemicals don't just evaporate but stay in the ground or are taken up by nature is alarming when you think of how many lawns there are in the US. Not to mention how destructive it is to actually make those chemicals in the first place, like what we are seeing with the huge leak at the abandoned phosphate plant down in Tampa.  Water demands are constant, and you are essentially offering zero nutritional value to nature.  Even your grass clippings are filled with chemicals and shouldn't be used for mulch, but instead left to rot in the corner of your yard and leach chemicals.

There was an interesting article I came across that said farmers/gardeners used to cherish a good mixture of clover in their lawns.  Clover is nitrogen fixing and when mixed with grass seed it will provide a good supply of nitrogen into the soil for the grass.  It also tolerates heat and drought better than grass, chokes out weeds, and provides food for pollinators. But in the 1940's (or sometime around then), the big chemical companies couldn't figure out how to make a weed killer that didn't also kill clover, so they simply labeled clover as a weed and here we are today.  I have since started mixing in dutch white clover around the yard and it has done very well.  I don't put down lime, I rarely water except for maybe one or two weeks in August if areas get burned out around the house.  Zero chemicals.  The lawn is greening up great right now.  In about a week or two the lawn will be a sea of dandelions, and it will look amazing and the bees will be extremely happy.  Then those will get mowed down and I'll let the grass grow on the high side (3.5-4") to choke out some of the weeds for a few weeks.  The clover will then start blossoming out and I'll start cutting it back closer to 2.5-3" through summer.  Large sections of the lawn have been seeded with wildflowers and will be uncut until the fall.  This also cuts down on areas I have to mow, as it currently takes me 2 hours on my 61" zero turn at full speed to cut everything, and that's before I break out the trimmer for edges/walls. 

I know what I'm doing is not for everyone, as there is still a strong mindset about what a lawn is expected to look like, as well as "curb appeal" of a house.  But I think more people will start to move away from the traditional lawn as we keep seeing more drought/pollution issues.  But if you're on the fence, I would highly recommend giving it a try in a section of your lawn and seeing what happens. 

Welcome to the board! Tip has met his match with another long poster !

[dendrite]

On 4/17/2021 at 10:42 AM, Typhoon Tip said:

You know ...a-heh, I came in here to plunk in an entirely different observation, but your write up is too 'softly' disturbing, as much as it is captivating - namely because it hearkens to a recent study I was reading over in the Earth link of Phys.org's encyclopedia of various paraphrased scientific papers. 

It was regarding a slow moving apocalypse ( maybe  ...), one that no agency or individuals of ubiquity really are even aware - not popularized yet by big media's telling us what we should care about ... give it time. But apparently ... males of Industrial extraction, globally .. regardless of racial or ethnic distinction, have shrinking testicles, penises, and sperm counts.   Yup ... But their lawns or Ireland dreams - ha ha, call it the Ireland Revenge for the Irish Curse -

The study ( and there are more...) focus on ambient/environment pollution from anthropomorphic, western civility activity spanning generations ...and apparently as you are intimating, having a cumulative non-degenerative presents in the background biota is now impacting on male reproductive health - it's probably not just humans, common sense and biological awareness notwithstanding...  

just find your comments interesting ( bold above ..); although it may not ( or may ..) be involved/linkable to this other arena of science, it all still eerily hearkens to the ills and poor forsights of human ingenuity spanning the past century's hockey-stick leaps of "advancement" - it's like we've advanced our own demise, while we continue to assume and conceit in our "conquering" nature's domain - fascinating.  Don't tell the hipsters that "Gaia" isn't onto us - we have a population over -abundance of abusing mouths and Industrial farters ... so, cut their nuts ... population corrects.  Piece of cake -

But enough with the gaslighting sermon -

So the snow that fell for this recent event is all but completely vanquished already from the lawns and fields around town here in Ayer, but all these area expanses .. it seems as the snow receded it exposed a flashing over to this amazing emerald green - really pops!  There's something about that snow that was the "real" fertilizer - ironically... - just like a magic potion. It's really amazing that noticeable difference. 

I've heard of the expression, "Farmer's Gold" growing up in the Midwest ... pertaining to snow events in April but wow -

Steve and I debate this all of the time. I've seen some literature defending both sides. I missed out on the snow this recent go-around and my lawn went bonkers the last couple of days as well. I think a deep soaking natural event is what really helped. Plenty of nitrates serve as condensation nuclei so I'm not sure how much of a difference there is between snow falling and melting on contact here versus accumulating a couple inches down there before melting. Like Steve says, maybe the slow release of the nitrates in the melting snow gives a steadier supply of food to the lawn over a 2-3 day span.

Regardless, we green.

[dendrite]

@tamarack
 

I had a chipmunk chomp the new growth on one of my potted sugar maples last spring and the new growth came out almost horizontally. I didn’t like it so I pruned the tree back a bit this spring. I’d like the bud to break near the top of the central leader and come almost straight vertically up. Looking at these buds...are these going to be 4 sets of leaves with the smaller inner bud the new stem growth ready to break open? I’m been getting more adventurous/courageous with pruning this spring so I’m just trying to figure out what to look for. 

[BrianW]

58 minutes ago, dendrite said:

Steve and I debate this all of the time. I've seen some literature defending both sides. I missed out on the snow this recent go-around and my lawn went bonkers the last couple of days as well. I think a deep soaking natural event is what really helped. Plenty of nitrates serve as condensation nuclei so I'm not sure how much of a difference there is between snow falling and melting on contact here versus accumulating a couple inches down there before melting. Like Steve says, maybe the slow release of the nitrates in the melting snow gives a steadier supply of food to the lawn over a 2-3 day span.

Regardless, we green.

 I had a small fence setup for the puppy before we got 230ft of vinyl fence put in this month. I shoveled his area all winter and were I put the snow piles it looked like I put down lesco. 

[DFRI]

Way too many chemicals being applied so people can egotistically brag about having weed free lawns. 

[tamarack]

15 hours ago, dendrite said:

@tamarack
 

I had a chipmunk chomp the new growth on one of my potted sugar maples last spring and the new growth came out almost horizontally. I didn’t like it so I pruned the tree back a bit this spring. I’d like the bud to break near the top of the central leader and come almost straight vertically up. Looking at these buds...are these going to be 4 sets of leaves with the smaller inner bud the new stem growth ready to break open? I’m been getting more adventurous/courageous with pruning this spring so I’m just trying to figure out what to look for. 

If some single-leader growth is your goal, I'd suggest pinching off all but the best-looking bud, probably the one on the left in your pic.  Otherwise the tree is likely to have 3-4 separate leaders.  Some folks would prefer that look, similar to a multi-weeviled "cabbage" pine.

[amarshall]

On 4/13/2021 at 1:24 PM, CoastalWx said:

I can't deal with weeds and dandies running wild. 

I would pave my yard with asphalt before I let crabgrass overrun my yard. 

[WhitinsvilleWX]

44 minutes ago, amarshall said:

I would pave my yard with asphalt before I let crabgrass overrun my yard. 

Same here. Crab grass is of the devil.

[dendrite]

12 hours ago, tamarack said:

If some single-leader growth is your goal, I'd suggest pinching off all but the best-looking bud, probably the one on the left in your pic.  Otherwise the tree is likely to have 3-4 separate leaders.  Some folks would prefer that look, similar to a multi-weeviled "cabbage" pine.

Thanks. I actually looked further down and there's a couple of bud nodes that have started branching out already that are growing straight up. So I'm tempted to prune it back all of the way to that point and just keep one of those pair.

[#NoPoles]

On 4/13/2021 at 6:39 PM, backedgeapproaching said:

We mow....we snow? First cut, didn't take much off..more of a clean up mow. Still snow mold patches too.

 

Snows before mows?