Spring Banter

[HoarfrostHubb]

In Mass at least they could probably double the number of Vocational / Technical High Schools and fill them

[PhineasC]

So many young people I have seen who are good with their hands but not really very impressive students who were pushed into college. A lot of young people out there with half a degree and $30k in debt who are stuck right where they started. It's a damn shame.

[PhineasC]

We need to bring back having parents sit down with their teenagers and be able to have that hard talk about future prospects.

"Son, we love you, but your grades and work ethic in HS have been lackluster. We see how much you enjoy working on your car and around the house, on the other hand, and maybe you should look to turn that passion into a career? We don't think it would be a good move for you to invest in a college education in a weak field and not be able to pay off your loans."

Not every kid can be an astronaut or the president. That's an unhelpful lie.

[powderfreak]

The sad thing was it felt more like it was the parents who suffered some sort of shame if their kid didn't go to a 4 year college.... so it was force fed to the kid.  Like having a kid take a year off before college or do anything other than go straight into a liberal arts program meant you failed as a parent... at least that seemed like the vibe back then.  I know friends who used to say "I'll do it for my parents".... it was an interesting time period back in the 80s, 90s and 00s.

[HoarfrostHubb]

One program that I felt was pretty well done (but is currently on pause due to the 'vid) is something called Project Lead the Way.  It can be done at all grade levels but we have been doing it in the middle school here.  The unit I would teach is called Automation and Robotics.  Simple mechanics and programming in a weird version of the C+language.  They can then easily apply that knowledge to high school classes or focuses that are more hands on.  Other units involve basic biomedical stuff, CAD/CAM

[PhineasC]

Just now, powderfreak said:

The sad thing was it felt more like it was the parents who suffered some sort of shame if their kid didn't go to a 4 year college.... so it was force fed to the kid.  Like having a kid take a year off before college or do anything other than go straight into a liberal arts program meant you failed as a parent... at least that seemed like the vibe back then.  I know friends who used to say "I'll do it for my parents".... it was an interesting time period back in the 80s, 90s and 00s.

Yes, that is very much what drove it. Parents were often too scared to have that hard chat with their kids to explain that they really can't be anything they want and they have limits they need to work within.

[powderfreak]

12 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

When I went to high school, the one that went to VoTech in the afternoon were basically just this side of prison and could barely read.

Now its competitive to get in. My son got in BVT for next year. He does a rotation in 7 shops (out of 18) then he picks next spring the one he wants the rest of high school.

 

8 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Our son went to our local Voc school (2019 grad) for carpentry.  Very difficult to get in.  There is always a waiting list.  A majority still go to college which is interesting.  He is now doing a Construction Management major.  Starting a summer internship which will pay a bunch of his next fall semester.  Some of his friends who went right into the trades are pulling $60k-80k as 20 year olds.

I've been doing my thing for over 20 years now and still don't make $80k...lol, despite degrees, a union, etc

 

I love that parents are now doing this.  I'd certainly do it if and when I have kids.  Props to both of you.

[WhitinsvilleWX]

10 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

 

I've been doing my thing for over 20 years now and still don't make $80k...lol, despite degrees, a union, etc

 

That's a crime, or should be

[powderfreak]

5 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Yes, that is very much what drove it. Parents were often too scared to have that hard chat with their kids to explain that they really can't be anything they want and they have limits they need to work within.

I also feel like there was some sort of desire to a lot of parents to send their kids to college because they didn't get that opportunity.  It was out of reach for many parents when they were growing up, then the boomer generation made some money (the economy was good), the suburbs were growing, and all the sudden the conversations of "this is an opportunity that I never had, you need to do it" started happening.  For many it was a status symbol... but there were also a lot of people who wanted to provide that to their kids whether they were smart enough or not.

I can see how it happens... parents work their whole life to provide for their kids and save up for college.  "Son, you better damn well recognize the sacrifices I made to allow you the opportunity for college and to better yourself."  

[powderfreak]

It's the same thing with parents fighting to get their kids into the best schools even into kindergarten.  Always looking for the educational advantage.  The amount of effort my sister put into finding the "right" kindergarten was pretty surreal to me.  But again, I'm sure once you have a kid you are doing literally everything you can to help them gain a competitive advantage in life.  That mentality rolls right up through college.

[HoarfrostHubb]

6 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

That's a crime, or should be

Meh... benefits are good.  I don't mind the money at all.  

This year sucked donkey balls of course though.  If they doubled my salary for next year but said it would be a repeat I would quit and get a job washing dishes at Wachusett

[PhineasC]

4 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

It's the same thing with parents fighting to get their kids into the best schools even into kindergarten.  Always looking for the educational advantage.  The amount of effort my sister put into finding the "right" kindergarten was pretty surreal to me.  But again, I'm sure once you have a kid you are doing literally everything you can to help them gain a competitive advantage in life.  That mentality rolls right up through college.

Some parents go way overboard with this and raise neurotic, anxiety-riddled adults who feel like they are never good enough. 

[BrianW]

It's going to get much worse. My boss said in CT something like 500 electricians retire every year but only 150-200 new guys come in. Its been like that for a long time and it's going to take like a decade or more to reverse those numbers. 

 

[Typhoon Tip]

Mm ...I don't think it's a one size fits all cultural activity though.  Not that anyone asked...

When I 'wasted my time in college,'  it really wasn't about opportunities and poetry like that, driving me to go;  it was strictly because I was cursed with this unbelievably in-germane fascination and the unexplained obsession with crispy TCUs, and wild Nor'easters...hurricanes, tornadoes, ... be it super heat waves, or molecular-stalling cold, hail... lightning...wind. I'd wander out into fields just to find the best vantage to watch thunder clouds rolling out under the tropopause on the horizon ... Come home with sun burns, 'Where have you been...'    When I was 10 years old,  had a favorite pine tree that grew atop a hill near my street..  I used to get up at dawn in the summer, whole world still zonked out droolin' on pillow... and I'd climb that 50 foot tree clear until the crown sagged - and I was scared of heights technically in any other setting.  But I did that because I wanted to see the mid west thunder clouds on the horizons, side lit by the morning sun as the corpuscular rays tipped over the horizon and exposed them from probably hundred mile vantage perspectives. 

I was f'n nuts about weather.

College was not good to me, though. Despite all that passion and wonder, my grades gave A's meaning, just by diametric comparison. I'd often mused that I provided a tremendous sort of community service in a lot of ways ... providing a shimmering metric for other students on what not to do.  It's really rather remarkable that I ever graduated.  Oh...my transcripts have a few A's and B's in some math courses... exceptions rather than the rule. Pretty much everything thing else was like explaining Navier-Stokes to a coke-bottle and wondering why the coke bottle kept doing so poorly on exams.  I really did not have very good grades in my core, Met at all. I had to go back 2 years after graduation and finish Chem II ... it was a disaster.   This crippled me and any ambition - tragic really... Put a bad attitude about it all.  Meanwhile, I had insights and forecasting skills that transcended all that shit.  Not sure where that comes/came from, or even how to quantify what is happening in the formulation - it's just like getting struck by an impression, talking about it...then the impression ends up happening.  I'm sure we all have things about us like this - I call it the "Michigan J Frog" effect:     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkjsN-J27aU

....after all, I do originally hail from Michigan, and in an uncanny twist, my first name is John so why the hell not.. Whenever no one's looking and it assuredly does not matter, I'm some kind of genius. 

But you know, this is true for everyone.  Not many on the planet is doing what they were truly most gifted at doing - some can find some thing proximal to native facility and do well, and excel...and even fall in love with their acumen/involvement and so forth - but what if Einstein was like the "Def, dumb, blind kid - sure could play pin ball" uncanny at seamstress work and no one, including him, every new it. 

Anyway, my point was going to be... my college pursuit was all romance and white privilege ...because I didn't have any business being there -

[yoda]

25 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

I also feel like there was some sort of desire to a lot of parents to send their kids to college because they didn't get that opportunity.  It was out of reach for many parents when they were growing up, then the boomer generation made some money (the economy was good), the suburbs were growing, and all the sudden the conversations of "this is an opportunity that I never had, you need to do it" started happening.  For many it was a status symbol... but there were also a lot of people who wanted to provide that to their kids whether they were smart enough or not.

I can see how it happens... parents work their whole life to provide for their kids and save up for college.  "Son, you better damn well recognize the sacrifices I made to allow you the opportunity for college and to better yourself."  

100% agree.

As mentioned above by other posters, it's also because of parents that kids get forced to go to college, and their parents also sometimes have outlandish expectations.  I will preface this by stating that my dad is a lawyer who has his own practice now but used to work at a pretty big law firm in N VA before going into private practice.  My mom has her masters in history and taught at a school before she had kids. 

By the time I got to HS (graduated HS in 2004... my how time flies) AP classes were a big thing (they probably were already anyway at that time).  Taking classes earlier (i.e. Algebra in 7th or 8th grade) was expected if you were "smart."   I was being told that you had to get A's and B's.  Anything below that was unacceptable in my house and was considered to mean that you were either not working hard enough, not studying enough or just goofing off.  Getting a 3.0 average for 1st quarter was okay, but that I could do better.  Even getting a 3.5 average was fine, but again, I was told I could do better.  

Parents put outlandish pressure on their kids because they want them to go to the best schools, the best colleges, the best whatever.  Yes, some parents want their kids to have the "life" that they didn't have when they grew up, but some parents just push their kids way too hard and to far

[yoda]

16 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Some parents go way overboard with this and raise neurotic, anxiety-riddled adults who feel like they are never good enough. 

Well... a post I can agree with you on

[HIPPYVALLEY]

1 hour ago, yoda said:

As I have said in this thread before, I am in hard on the DOGE crypto train lol.  I have made some good money -- I know its kind of bragging, but its in the 5 figures.  I got in early on back when it was down around 0.001 (like a year ago) and had around 250,000 "shares".  I just hodl'd for a while and around Super Bowl Sunday when it was around like 0.07 I got out and sold all my "shares" and made 17K. 

I hope you put at least a little bit of that into BTC or ETH.

[yoda]

1 minute ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

I hope you put at least a little bit of that into BTC or ETH.

ADA and XRP

Most of it is in my bank account lol

[STILL N OF PIKE]

5 minutes ago, yoda said:

ADA and XRP

Most of it is in my bank account lol

Shiba Inu?

Good work on Doge

Doesnt matter if your in BTC or Cumrocket Crypto gains are gains and if your trading the huge profits are just as real 

You’ve got massive profit potential that can’t be duplicated in stock market (outside of options) When these tiny market cap crypto’s Launch and can see Tremendous inflows that jacks their price up 10,000% . 

[yoda]

9 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

Shiba Inu?

Good work on Doge

Doesnt matter if your in BTC or Cumrocket Crypto gains are gains and if your trading the huge profits are just as real 

You’ve got massive profit potential that can’t be duplicated in stock market (outside of options) When these tiny market cap crypto’s Launch and can see Tremendous inflows that jacks their price up 10,000% . 

I thought about it... but haven't gotten in.  I admit its been tempting

[HIPPYVALLEY]

16 minutes ago, yoda said:

ADA and XRP

Most of it is in my bank account lol

Bank is definitely the best place!

ADA will come around, it might not be insane but still could be 2 or 3X.

[HIPPYVALLEY]

I get around a bit for my job and just about every restaurant and supermarket around here is looking for help.

[Whineminster]

9 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

Bank is definitely the best place!

ADA will come around, it might not be insane but still could be 2 or 3X.

you hate XLM now 

[Lava Rock]

27 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

Shiba Inu?

Good work on Doge

Doesnt matter if your in BTC or Cumrocket Crypto gains are gains and if your trading the huge profits are just as real 

You’ve got massive profit potential that can’t be duplicated in stock market (outside of options) When these tiny market cap crypto’s Launch and can see Tremendous inflows that jacks their price up 10,000% . 

What's your feeling on ETH? Bout to drop $5K into it since my shitty GNUS is still floundering

[ORH_wxman]

1 hour ago, PhineasC said:

So many young people I have seen who are good with their hands but not really very impressive students who were pushed into college. A lot of young people out there with half a degree and $30k in debt who are stuck right where they started. It's a damn shame.

 

1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

The sad thing was it felt more like it was the parents who suffered some sort of shame if their kid didn't go to a 4 year college.... so it was force fed to the kid.  Like having a kid take a year off before college or do anything other than go straight into a liberal arts program meant you failed as a parent... at least that seemed like the vibe back then.  I know friends who used to say "I'll do it for my parents".... it was an interesting time period back in the 80s, 90s and 00s.

An interesting variable too is the percent of degrees that each field made up the total back then. Like in the 1980s, engineering degrees were a higher percent of bachelor degrees than now and psychology/sociology degrees were a lower percent. Engineering is a far more lucrative field than many other types of degrees, so there was some incentive to get those degrees. The pay gap was also larger back then for college degrees and skilled trades, but that has been reversing quickly in recent years. The lack of skilled tradesmen is driving up the income potential in that sector.

[STILL N OF PIKE]

21 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

What's your feeling on ETH? Bout to drop $5K into it since my shitty GNUS is still floundering

The shit coins can go 10x in a week

ETH already tripled this year so I personally am not interested , it’s obviously way More legit and it will likely be a top crypto overall but that doesn’t mean it’s going to translate Into profits now . It could also easily keep chugging to 6K in 4 weeks 

[HIPPYVALLEY]

19 minutes ago, Whineminster said:

you hate XLM now 

No, it was just too frustrating so after a year of minimal gains I dropped it.  It’s been looking stronger at least.

[WhitinsvilleWX]

17 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

 

An interesting variable too is the percent of degrees that each field made up the total back then. Like in the 1980s, engineering degrees were a higher percent of bachelor degrees than now and psychology/sociology degrees were a lower percent. Engineering is a far more lucrative field than many other types of degrees, so there was some incentive to get those degrees. The pay gap was also larger back then for college degrees and skilled trades, but that has been reversing quickly in recent years. The lack of skilled tradesmen is driving up the income potential in that sector.

Not sure what a starting salary is for an engineer.

 

I know I hired a 22 yo Northeastern graduate last June. She has a degree in biology and had two, 6 month co-op's at biotech companies here in Cambridge. I hired her at $78,000 a year, full medical, dental, vision, 401(k) with a 4% match, life insurance, paid 6 month disability at full salary, long term disability, 3 weeks vacation to start, 2 weeks sick time, and an 8% of base salary yearly bonus target. She just turned 23.  So it depends on the degree you get. And her co-ops got her the job over someone else with a similar degree. 

[CoastalWx]

19 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

What's your feeling on ETH? Bout to drop $5K into it since my shitty GNUS is still floundering

Why don’t you invest 5K in your lawn?

[CoastalWx]

I’d work for House.