Spring Banter

[powderfreak]

5 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Right now we basically have the worst parts of socialism and capitalism at play in our economic system. We somehow manage to simultaneously have the very weak personal rights of overbearing socialism and the oppressive corporate largesse and abuses of rampant capitalism, for example. It’s really not a good setup. 

That's a good take.  Many folks look at it as either 1) Capitalism or 2) Socialism with absolutely nothing in between.  Pretty much every economy running right now is a mix of both.  And like you said, it may not be taking the best parts of each type of society/economy.  The current set-up seems to put the squeeze on the newcomer, small businesses, and little guy.  It rewards the behemoths and already established.

[PhineasC]

Just now, powderfreak said:

That's a good take.  Many folks look at it as either 1) Capitalism or 2) Socialism with absolutely nothing in between.  Pretty much every economy running right now is a mix of both.  And like you said, it may not be taking the best parts of each type of society/economy.  The current set-up seems to put the squeeze on the newcomer, small businesses, and little guy.  It rewards the behemoths and already established.

The govt generally involves itself in the worst possible way now. It stifles competition and buries small innovative businesses in taxes and regulations while making certain large businesses essentially an arm of the Federal govt.

The fact that Congress is basically terrified of the big tech companies is a great example of this. How have Amazon, Facebook, Twitter, and Google not faced anti-trust action yet? Those companies have the power to remove a citizen from the Internet for all practical purposes. They need to be regulated.

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

21 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Right now we basically have the worst parts of socialism and capitalism at play in our economic system. We somehow manage to simultaneously have the very weak personal rights of overbearing socialism and the oppressive corporate largesse and abuses of rampant capitalism, for example. It’s really not a good setup. 

This is actually a half decent take I think. The power of large corporations in this country is one of the single biggest issues facing America right now. 

[RUNNAWAYICEBERG]

 

Just now, powderfreak said:

That's a good take.  Many folks look at it as either 1) Capitalism or 2) Socialism with absolutely nothing in between.  Pretty much every economy running right now is a mix of both.  And like you said, it may not be taking the best parts of each type of society/economy.  The current set-up seems to put the squeeze on the newcomer, small businesses, and little guy.  It rewards the behemoths and already established.

It’s a bad setup where competition and small business are at a severe disadvantage, agree with Phin. What the book explains is a path to a a better combo of free markets and socialism where they are working in tandem and not against each other:

There’s something called “market socialism” but usually what it means is socialism, but with some market institutions to keep it more efficient, and that is not what we mean at all. We mean that in order to have real free markets you have to have socialism, and in order to have socialism, you have to have markets. These two things, which seem opposite to each other, are actually two sides of the same coin.

[Hoth]

9 minutes ago, DotRat_Wx said:

The grid will need 3x more power to realize the full potential of electric vehicles soon. The company is rapidly developing advanced batteries, solar panel systems too. It's not just cars. They aren't a car company. I know you must know this, but I feel many are downplaying what this company has already achieved. I mean, space x is straight launching people to the moon soon. 

It's also funny how no one cares if a regular car goes on fire. It happens a billion times a day. But if it's a tesla? Call CNN. 

The company isn't "rapidly developing" anything. That's typical Elon BS, like when he said there would be a million level five autonomous Tesla robo-taxis on the road by the end of 2020. Or when he said the Tesla factory would be like an "alien dreadnought" with machines moving so fast you would need a strobe light to see them. Instead, he builds cars mostly by hand in a tent. He is the ultimate snake-oil salesman. Tesla's R&D spending is a joke. They've been losing engineering and executive talent to their rivals for years. If they had top notch battery tech, they wouldn't need to source them from Panasonic or CATL. Nor would independent testing find that they habitually overstate the battery range in their cars. They are getting taken apart by incumbent manufacturers in battery tech, driver assist and are losing more market share by the day. They've had to slash their asking price per car 13% in the last year to move metal. They are absolutely fundamentally a car company, and an abysmally run one at that.

Their solar division is the neglected stepchild. Elon coerced Tesla's board into buying out SolarCity because it was insolvent. Consultants opined that it was not a going concern, and suggesting lining up DIP financing--they could not drum up interest in a takeover from a single PE shop. Its demise would have destroyed Elon's and his family's stake, as well as $200 million of SpaceX venture cap money that he had parked in SolarCity bonds. Default would've likely brought down SpaceX too. So Elon threw his weight around and claimed how synergistic and game-changing the merger would be, then paid an excessive premium for the moribund company that paid off his cousins handsomely and got him and the board sued by Tesla shareholders. After Tesla acquired it, solar panel installations plunged. Dig through their reports and look at the kilowatt hours installed. They're minute compared to five years ago. Their panels have been plagued by installation problems and fires. Go read reviews from customers. Scathing almost universally. The so-called "game-changing" solar roof, which is immensely difficult to install and often costs six figures, is hardly a viable solution for 99.9% of the populace. There are maybe a hundred in existence, and that is generous.

As for SpaceX, they've done some cool engineering stuff. The Falcon is a reliable workhorse and Elon can't afford to cut corners with it, especially if they are transporting humans. Dead astronauts mean intense government scrutiny, which is the last thing he wants. But let's be clear, as a business, it is still a money loser built on clearly wrong assumptions. How many companies do you know that still need venture capital after 20 years of operation? A company that old should be mature enough to stand on its own, go public and allow VCs to parachute out, but not SpaceX. That alone tells me it is probably hemorrhaging cash like every other project Musk touches. The whole yarn about how reusing the booster would save so much money on launches was BS too. After all the recovery, repairs and inspections are done, it's every bit as expensive as a disposable launch vehicle, even if the landing boosters are cool. In fact, Space X recently was the most expensive per-launch bidder for a recent contract. The whole constellation of internet satellites Elon bloviates about occasionally is just another pretext for raising more money, all the while filling low earth orbit with space junk. They are not launching astronauts to the moon. The NASA SLS booster will be doing the lifting. SpaceX got a contract for the rendezvous once they reach the moon.

I've never heard of a Tesla car fire making the U.S. news. China, yes. But a car with no driver slamming into a tree and killing its occupants is certainly newsworthy, especially when that car company's CEO has been criminally exaggerating the capabilities of its driver assist software for years. You see videos all over the internet of idiots pulling stunts like this; who knows how many others have gotten themselves killed by trusting faulty software and will get other innocent bystanders killed before a regulator steps in and says enough is enough.

These are not companies that are changing the world for the better. These are companies that survive by syphoning billions in taxpayer subsidies, and raising billions more in new capital from gullible investors who can be duped into believing fanciful narratives. Without historically loose money, and no hurdle rate for investment, Tesla and SpaceX would probably have been consigned to the dustbin of business history long ago.

[mreaves]

39 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

 

It’s a bad setup where competition and small business are at a severe disadvantage, agree with Phin. What the book explains is a path to a a better combo of free markets and socialism where they are working in tandem and not against each other:

There’s something called “market socialism” but usually what it means is socialism, but with some market institutions to keep it more efficient, and that is not what we mean at all. We mean that in order to have real free markets you have to have socialism, and in order to have socialism, you have to have markets. These two things, which seem opposite to each other, are actually two sides of the same coin.

DIT just smashed his smartphone with a hammer because he read the word socialism. Wait, it’s after 9:00 pm. He’ll do that at 5:30am after his run. 

[TalcottWx]

https://montrealgazette.com/news/world/pfizer-is-testing-a-pill-that-if-successful-could-become-first-ever-home-cure-for-covid-19

[Typhoon Tip]

1 hour ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

And this is one of the biggest downfalls of our society nowadays. Political and ideological tribalism. Like Scooter says, go aliens.

Internet did that ...

[Ginx snewx]

Well AWT last year, Govt to announce no need for masks outside and outside recreation is fine. The theater of taking hoops off basketball courts and having cops at playgrounds is finally over. There was so much over reaching Govt for an indoor spread virus it is scary. Masks indoors in crowded spaces fine.  Hope a very expensive lesson was learned. We tried to tell um.

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

26 minutes ago, Hoth said:

The company isn't "rapidly developing" anything. That's typical Elon BS, like when he said there would be a million level five autonomous Tesla robo-taxis on the road by the end of 2020. Or when he said the Tesla factory would be like an "alien dreadnought" with machines moving so fast you would need a strobe light to see them. Instead, he builds cars mostly by hand in a tent. He is the ultimate snake-oil salesman. Tesla's R&D spending is a joke. They've been losing engineering and executive talent to their rivals for years. If they had top notch battery tech, they wouldn't need to source them from Panasonic or CATL. Nor would independent testing find that they habitually overstate the battery range in their cars. They are getting taken apart by incumbent manufacturers in battery tech, driver assist and are losing more market share by the day. They've had to slash their asking price per car 13% in the last year to move metal. They are absolutely fundamentally a car company, and an abysmally run one at that.

Their solar division is the neglected stepchild. Elon coerced Tesla's board into buying out SolarCity because it was insolvent. Consultants opined that it was not a going concern, and suggesting lining up DIP financing--they could not drum up interest in a takeover from a single PE shop. Its demise would have destroyed Elon's and his family's stake, as well as $200 million of SpaceX venture cap money that he had parked in SolarCity bonds. Default would've likely brought down SpaceX too. So Elon threw his weight around and claimed how synergistic and game-changing the merger would be, then paid an excessive premium for the moribund company that paid off his cousins handsomely and got him and the board sued by Tesla shareholders. After Tesla acquired it, solar panel installations plunged. Dig through their reports and look at the kilowatt hours installed. They're minute compared to five years ago. Their panels have been plagued by installation problems and fires. Go read reviews from customers. Scathing almost universally. The so-called "game-changing" solar roof, which is immensely difficult to install and often costs six figures, is hardly a viable solution for 99.9% of the populace. There are maybe a hundred in existence, and that is generous.

As for SpaceX, they've done some cool engineering stuff. The Falcon is a reliable workhorse and Elon can't afford to cut corners with it, especially if they are transporting humans. Dead astronauts mean intense government scrutiny, which is the last thing he wants. But let's be clear, as a business, it is still a money loser built on clearly wrong assumptions. How many companies do you know that still need venture capital after 20 years of operation? A company that old should be mature enough to stand on its own, go public and allow VCs to parachute out, but not SpaceX. That alone tells me it is probably hemorrhaging cash like every other project Musk touches. The whole yarn about how reusing the booster would save so much money on launches was BS too. After all the recovery, repairs and inspections are done, it's every bit as expensive as a disposable launch vehicle, even if the landing boosters are cool. In fact, Space X recently was the most expensive per-launch bidder for a recent contract. The whole constellation of internet satellites Elon bloviates about occasionally is just another pretext for raising more money, all the while filling low earth orbit with space junk. They are not launching astronauts to the moon. The NASA SLS booster will be doing the lifting. SpaceX got a contract for the rendezvous once they reach the moon.

I've never heard of a Tesla car fire making the U.S. news. China, yes. But a car with no driver slamming into a tree and killing its occupants is certainly newsworthy, especially when that car company's CEO has been criminally exaggerating the capabilities of its driver assist software for years. You see videos all over the internet of idiots pulling stunts like this; who knows how many others have gotten themselves killed by trusting faulty software and will get other innocent bystanders killed before a regulator steps in and says enough is enough.

These are not companies that are changing the world for the better. These are companies that survive by syphoning billions in taxpayer subsidies, and raising billions more in new capital from gullible investors who can be duped into believing fanciful narratives. Without historically loose money, and no hurdle rate for investment, Tesla and SpaceX would probably have been consigned to the dustbin of business history long ago.

Elon is a lot of things, but being a con man and a fraud might be his best qualities 

[weathafella]

1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

You get a sugar cube, I get a sugar cube, we all get a sugar cube, ha.

 

 

 

[radarman]

18 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Well AWT last year, Govt to announce no need for masks outside and outside recreation is fine. The theater of taking hoops off basketball courts and having cops at playgrounds is finally over. There was so much over reaching Govt for an indoor spread virus it is scary. Masks indoors in crowded spaces fine.  Hope a very expensive lesson was learned. We tried to tell um.

In CT or nationwide?

[Hoth]

12 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Elon is a lot of things, but being a con man and a fraud might be his best qualities 

Well said.

[MJO812]

When are we having another zoom gtg ?

[RUNNAWAYICEBERG]

32 minutes ago, mreaves said:

DIT just smashed his smartphone with a hammer because he read the word socialism. Wait, it’s after 9:00 pm. He’ll do that at 5:30am after his run. 

As he sends his kids off to public school (socialism), salutes our military (socialism), high fives his police officer (socialism) neighbor and drives on a state highway (socialism) to work.

[Ginx snewx]

8 minutes ago, radarman said:

In CT or nationwide?

Biden

[TalcottWx]

2 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

As he sends his kids off to public school (socialism), salutes our military (socialism), high fives his police officer (socialism) neighbor and drives on a state highway (socialism) to work.

Lol

[Ginx snewx]

32 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

Internet did that ...

Meh politics has been split across the country for generations.  

[Ginx snewx]

Be nice if people really knew the correct definition of socialism.  Also in Marxist theory it is also the step between capitalism and communism 

Socialism is an economic and political system. It is an economic theory of social organization. It states that the means of making, moving, and trading wealth should be owned or controlled by the workers. This means the money made belongs to the workers who make the products, instead of groups of private owners.

[PhineasC]

36 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Well AWT last year, Govt to announce no need for masks outside and outside recreation is fine. The theater of taking hoops off basketball courts and having cops at playgrounds is finally over. There was so much over reaching Govt for an indoor spread virus it is scary. Masks indoors in crowded spaces fine.  Hope a very expensive lesson was learned. We tried to tell um.

The only thing the govt learned is that people will meekly comply with basically any emergency order they put in place, I'm afraid.

[RUNNAWAYICEBERG]

Just now, Ginx snewx said:

Be nice if people really knew the correct definition of socialism.  Also in Marxist theory it is also the step between capitalism and communism 

Socialism is an economic and political system. It is an economic theory of social organization. It states that the means of making, moving, and trading wealth should be owned or controlled by the workers. This means the money made belongs to the workers who make the products, instead of groups of private owners.

There are several forms of it but yes that is in its purest defintion. When DIT hears the word he thinks government will come take away his truck and give the engine to one neighbor and the body to another leaving him with just the exhaust. 

[PhineasC]

The US has done much better with the vaccines than nations with socialized medicine such as Canada.

[Bostonseminole]

The only thing the govt learned is that people will meekly comply with basically any emergency order they put in place, I'm afraid.

Stay afraid bro, most of us moved on and ready to enjoy life


.

[Bostonseminole]

The US has done much better with the vaccines than nations with socialized medicine such as Canada.

I heard Israel is doing well


.

[PhineasC]

Just now, Bostonseminole said:

I heard Israel is doing well


.

Geographically tiny nation. Not really comparable to North America or Europe in any way.

[PhineasC]

4 minutes ago, Bostonseminole said:

Stay afraid bro, most of us moved on and ready to enjoy life


.

I am already out here. Whenever you are ready to "enjoy life" again you will find me and many like me already doing so. We'll make room for you at the bar, and you can still wear your mask, we won't make fun of you (too much).

[STILL N OF PIKE]

Pretty good In here tonite 

TSLA stock is an enigma to me 

I am certainly not a fan of autonomous driving , Maybe I’ll be proven wrong but the whole idea seems totally unnecessary, careless and a recipe for horrific accidents .

[mreaves]

1 hour ago, Hoth said:

The company isn't "rapidly developing" anything. That's typical Elon BS, like when he said there would be a million level five autonomous Tesla robo-taxis on the road by the end of 2020. Or when he said the Tesla factory would be like an "alien dreadnought" with machines moving so fast you would need a strobe light to see them. Instead, he builds cars mostly by hand in a tent. He is the ultimate snake-oil salesman. Tesla's R&D spending is a joke. They've been losing engineering and executive talent to their rivals for years. If they had top notch battery tech, they wouldn't need to source them from Panasonic or CATL. Nor would independent testing find that they habitually overstate the battery range in their cars. They are getting taken apart by incumbent manufacturers in battery tech, driver assist and are losing more market share by the day. They've had to slash their asking price per car 13% in the last year to move metal. They are absolutely fundamentally a car company, and an abysmally run one at that.

Their solar division is the neglected stepchild. Elon coerced Tesla's board into buying out SolarCity because it was insolvent. Consultants opined that it was not a going concern, and suggesting lining up DIP financing--they could not drum up interest in a takeover from a single PE shop. Its demise would have destroyed Elon's and his family's stake, as well as $200 million of SpaceX venture cap money that he had parked in SolarCity bonds. Default would've likely brought down SpaceX too. So Elon threw his weight around and claimed how synergistic and game-changing the merger would be, then paid an excessive premium for the moribund company that paid off his cousins handsomely and got him and the board sued by Tesla shareholders. After Tesla acquired it, solar panel installations plunged. Dig through their reports and look at the kilowatt hours installed. They're minute compared to five years ago. Their panels have been plagued by installation problems and fires. Go read reviews from customers. Scathing almost universally. The so-called "game-changing" solar roof, which is immensely difficult to install and often costs six figures, is hardly a viable solution for 99.9% of the populace. There are maybe a hundred in existence, and that is generous.

As for SpaceX, they've done some cool engineering stuff. The Falcon is a reliable workhorse and Elon can't afford to cut corners with it, especially if they are transporting humans. Dead astronauts mean intense government scrutiny, which is the last thing he wants. But let's be clear, as a business, it is still a money loser built on clearly wrong assumptions. How many companies do you know that still need venture capital after 20 years of operation? A company that old should be mature enough to stand on its own, go public and allow VCs to parachute out, but not SpaceX. That alone tells me it is probably hemorrhaging cash like every other project Musk touches. The whole yarn about how reusing the booster would save so much money on launches was BS too. After all the recovery, repairs and inspections are done, it's every bit as expensive as a disposable launch vehicle, even if the landing boosters are cool. In fact, Space X recently was the most expensive per-launch bidder for a recent contract. The whole constellation of internet satellites Elon bloviates about occasionally is just another pretext for raising more money, all the while filling low earth orbit with space junk. They are not launching astronauts to the moon. The NASA SLS booster will be doing the lifting. SpaceX got a contract for the rendezvous once they reach the moon.

I've never heard of a Tesla car fire making the U.S. news. China, yes. But a car with no driver slamming into a tree and killing its occupants is certainly newsworthy, especially when that car company's CEO has been criminally exaggerating the capabilities of its driver assist software for years. You see videos all over the internet of idiots pulling stunts like this; who knows how many others have gotten themselves killed by trusting faulty software and will get other innocent bystanders killed before a regulator steps in and says enough is enough.

These are not companies that are changing the world for the better. These are companies that survive by syphoning billions in taxpayer subsidies, and raising billions more in new capital from gullible investors who can be duped into believing fanciful narratives. Without historically loose money, and no hurdle rate for investment, Tesla and SpaceX would probably have been consigned to the dustbin of business history long ago.

Hoth, the Tip of Tesla

[Bostonseminole]

Geographically tiny nation. Not really comparable to North America or Europe in any way.

They have socialize medicine, just responding to your post, you should have added your usual disclaimers


.

[Bostonseminole]

I am already out here. Whenever you are ready to "enjoy life" again you will find me and many like me already doing so. We'll make room for you at the bar, and you can still wear your mask, we won't make fun of you (too much).

I was never much of a bar or restaurant person so nothing has really changed for me. After July last year, life has been pretty much normal for me except for the mask wearing and not traveling for work or to Canada. I don’t know anyone who has not been pretty much back to normal since late last year.

 

 

.