WhitinsvilleWX Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said: The old style vaccines like J&J and Astra are the ones having the side effects it seems. I've told everyone here before. J&J and AZ vaccines aren't "old style". They are about as new as the mRNA type. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said: I'm not sure why you persist with this argument. I've told you that an event this rare would most assuredly not been picked up. I do know a little about what I'm talking about . Then why not just test all drugs for six weeks and blast them out there? Why even have a full auth process at all? I'm sure all the major side effects show up in the six week period. Just call it quits after that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryslot Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, DavisStraight said: He'd lose his two million insurance if he did that and there's no way he can play anyway. The organization actually took care of him doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Probably many other people had minor blood clot issues and did not seek medical care over it. I doubt it was literally ONLY 6 people who had this issue and no one else. People always seem to forget selection bias when it comes to COVID. Whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitinsvilleWX Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, PhineasC said: Then why not just test all drugs for six weeks and blast them out there? Why even have a full auth process at all? I'm sure all the major side effects show up in the six week period. Just call it quits after that. LOL. Now you're just ranting non sense. I've said that studies would be done for 2-3 years with several hundred thousand people and a 6 in 6.5 million effect probably wouldn't be picked up. That's why pharma have whole department that follow a drug through its life cycle. Its called pharmacovigilance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreaves Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 22 minutes ago, powderfreak said: All I can think of is the end of every drug commercial that lists all the possible side effects... including just about everything short of an alien life form coming out of your rectum. "Ask your doctor, this drug is a miracle but in rare cases...." My favorite is the "Do not take if allergic to" That seems a bit obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 minute ago, WhitinsvilleWX said: LOL. Now you're just ranting non sense. That's fine, I just don't really get the logic that because it was only 6 reported cases out of x million doses it would have therefore never been possible to find this issue in a full trial. That seems like a random guess on your part, IMO. In a full trial, they may have found many minor cases of blood clots that didn't require hospitalization but were still caught because the subjects were under observation. They have no one under observation after getting the shot. This is all being driven by selection-bias now in terms of who gets so bad they show back up to the hospital. You have zero clue how many people are suffering at home with vaccine side effects right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bch2014 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, PhineasC said: That's fine, I just don't really get the logic that because it was only 6 reported cases out of x million doses it would have therefore never been possible to find this issue in a full trial. That seems like a random guess on your part, IMO. In a full trial, they may have found many minor cases of blood clots that didn't require hospitalization but were still caught because the subjects were under observation. They have no one under observation after getting the shot. This is all being driven by selection-bias now in terms of who gets so bad they show back up to the hospital. You have zero clue how many people are suffering at home with vaccine side effects right now. Can you point to an example of a vaccine trial where subjects are held in a hospital for 6-14 days (i.e. when these clots occurred) after dosing for observation? (There may be examples-I honestly don't know) Otherwise sounds like a straw man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 12 hours ago, WhitinsvilleWX said: So did gronk Who is 3 years younger than Edelman. I think Julian is pulling the plug for good - he'll be 35 soon and might not even crack the overstuffed WR roster for the Bucs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitinsvilleWX Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Gardasil ran phase I, II, and II trials with full approval. The total in the trials was around 50,000 people. Zostavax ran about 80,000 total. Boostrix (dTAP booster) ran a total of 12,000. Clinical trials do not run as many patients as people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whineminster Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 minute ago, WhitinsvilleWX said: Gardasil ran phase I, II, and II trials with full approval. The total in the trials was around 50,000 people. Zostavax ran about 80,000 total. Boostrix (dTAP booster) ran a total of 12,000. Clinical trials do not run as many patients as people think. 80,000 people is the size of Fall River.....it's a LOT of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hailstoned Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 "I'm Not Throwing Away My Shot!" (Adapted from Hamilton) https://www.theolympian.com/news/coronavirus/article249981859.html As for side effects, 8 hours of fatigue, nausea and a 100.3 fever after the second Moderna jab, were more than worth it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 29 minutes ago, bch2014 said: Can you point to an example of a vaccine trial where subjects are held in a hospital for 6-14 days (i.e. when these clots occurred) after dosing for observation? (There may be examples-I honestly don't know) Otherwise sounds like a straw man... Subjects in trials report their symptoms and status regularly. Random people getting the shot now only show up in the data after they are near death in the hospital. Selection bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitinsvilleWX Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 16 minutes ago, Whineminster said: 80,000 people is the size of Fall River.....it's a LOT of people. Its nowhere near a million. Or 6 million. The argument is that a side effect that affects 6 in almost 7 million would have been picked up in a trial. That's not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 hours ago, MaineJayhawk said: I would dispute that claim TB12 is about 96 in football years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 The odds of being struck by lightning are 1 in 500,000. You're 12 times more likely to be struck by lightning then to get a blood clot from j&j vaccine. https://www.cdc.gov/disasters/lightning/victimdata.html#:~:text=Lightning is one of the,only around 1 in 500%2C000. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said: Its nowhere near a million. Or 6 million. The argument is that a side effect that affects 6 in almost 7 million would have been picked up in a trial. That's not true. Clearly more than six people have had blood clot issues. Six people were so bad off that they ended up in the hospital over it. That’s all we know right now. Selection bias. This same error was made when politicians tried to calculate the hospitalization rates in the early days of COVID. It’s why Cuomo said he needed 40k ventilators and entire new hospitals to be built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Just now, BuffaloWeather said: The odds of being struck by lightning are 1 in 500,000. You're 12 times more likely to be struck by lightning then to get a blood clot from j&j vaccine. This same logic can be used to argue kids and young adults don’t need to worry about COVID either, BTW. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Just now, PhineasC said: This same logic can be used to argue kids and young adults don’t need to worry about COVID either, BTW. I 100% agree, they don't. More kids die from the flu in any given year than Covid. They can carry the virus and infect those more susceptible to it. However, once that age group is fully vaccinated it won't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 minute ago, BuffaloWeather said: I 100% agree, they don't. More kids die from the flu in any given year than Covid. They can carry the virus and infect those more susceptible to it. However, once that age group is fully vaccinated it won't matter. No way many parents are going to inject their kids with an EUA vaccine for a disease that doesn’t even affect them. Adults can get vaccinated and be safe without needing kids to get the vaccine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Some data on under 18 covid cases. Only 46 people died from covid between 0-17 years old in the USA since covid started. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge 477 ages 0-17 died from the flu in the 2018-2019 flu season https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html Here is the full data https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/AAP and CHA - Children and COVID-19 State Data Report 4.1.21 FINAL.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Just now, PhineasC said: No way many parents are going to inject their kids with an EUA vaccine for a disease that doesn’t even affect them. Adults can get vaccinated and be safe without needing kids to get the vaccine. I agree, that is what I meant. The older more susceptible get the vaccine, youths don't really need to worry right now. The only issue is the Brazilian variant is impacting the younger population. However, we don't have enough data on it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Just now, BuffaloWeather said: I agree, that is what I meant. The older more susceptible get the vaccine, youths don't really need to worry right now. The only issue is the Brazilian variant is impacting the younger population. However, we don't have enough data on it yet. It’s actually a very good thing if young people all get very mild COVID and then recover. That’s how you break the back of the pandemic (with vaccinations too for the older adults). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitinsvilleWX Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, PhineasC said: Clearly more than six people have had blood clot issues. Six people were so bad off that they ended up in the hospital over it. That’s all we know right now. Selection bias. This same error was made when politicians tried to calculate the hospitalization rates in the early days of COVID. It’s why Cuomo said he needed 40k ventilators and entire new hospitals to be built. Maybe I should hire you to run the Therapeutic area unit at my company since you know so much about how to power and run a clinical trial. Like I said, you and I think alike on a lot of stuff, but you're in my area of expertise and I'm here to tell you, that you don't know shyte about drug development. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthCoastMA Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, PhineasC said: No way many parents are going to inject their kids with an EUA vaccine for a disease that doesn’t even affect them. Adults can get vaccinated and be safe without needing kids to get the vaccine. I tend to agree with this..at least in the near term. I know they are doing trials on 6 month olds, but I'm going to pass on this for my 3 year old whenever it gets EU approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said: Maybe I should hire you to run the Therapeutic area unit at my company since you know so much about how to power and run a clinical trial. Like I said, you and I think alike on a lot of stuff, but you're in my area of expertise and I'm here to tell you, that you don't know shyte about drug development. LOL that’s fine. No need to get defensive. I’m sure you guys did a great job with the jab and all is well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitinsvilleWX Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, PhineasC said: . I’m sure you guys did a great job with the jab and all is well. We don't make a Covid vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 I wonder how many of the “I’m not putting that vaccine in my body” light up a cigarette and throw back a bottle of JD. probably a positive correlation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 minute ago, CoastalWx said: I wonder how many of the “I’m not putting that vaccine in my body” light up a cigarette and throw back a bottle of JD. probably a positive correlation. Or go to McDonalds everyday for lunch. I have a few coworkers who smoke a pack a day and are anti vaxxers. Makes no sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lava Rock Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 40 minutes ago, PhineasC said: No way many parents are going to inject their kids with an EUA vaccine for a disease that doesn’t even affect them. Adults can get vaccinated and be safe without needing kids to get the vaccine. you haven't been paying attention to the media. Now that the elderly are vaccinated and 40+ are on their way, they've said schools are spreaders now. Trickle down disease 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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