Spring Banter

[DavisStraight]

5 minutes ago, SJonesWX said:

you got a link for that?

i have heard that some have had worse side effects, but i wouldn't call that a problem.

No its anecdotal

[PhineasC]

3 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

Ever since a TV and a radio convinced the public it was “ok” to set on fire and kill hundreds of thousands  of innocent women and children in Japan , this was nothing . I don’t see that being topped .

That's a more complex argument. Not sure starving them to death or killing them in a ground invasion would have been better. Or leaving them to the Soviets...

[STILL N OF PIKE]

2 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

That's a more complex argument. Not sure starving them to death or killing them in a ground invasion would have been better. Or leaving them to the Soviets...

It is a more complex argument .

But my point is the public will generally do what they are told or believe what they are told is justified with few limits as long as repeated Enough by experts And there is not a big platform for opposition. Sovereign government  can very easily generate preferred public opinion if desired . In democracy it’s thru propaganda , in China / Russia its thru force .
 

The milligram experiment was eye opening as well .

 

[PhineasC]

2 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

It is a more complex argument .

But my point is the public will generally do what they are told or believe what they are told is justified with few limits as long as repeated Enough by experts And there is not a big platform for opposition. Sovereign government  can very easily generate preferred public opinion if desired . In democracy it’s thru propaganda , in China / Russia its thru force .
 

The milligram experiment was eye opening as well .

 

Definitely agree that it's pretty easy for politicians and the media to build whatever consensus they desire. That's why it is vitally important that we fiercely protect free speech rights and other freedoms. Amazing how quickly this virus has led to a large number of people willingly turning themselves into shackled serfs of the government.

[HIPPYVALLEY]

23 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

Timely article

Here is a short article ( Q&A with answers by A.I ) on investment advice 
 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/artificial-intelligence-has-advanced-so-much-it-wrote-this-article-11617639437?link=sfmw_fb&fbclid=IwAR3yLBhecLNrfw3G6AnTQ7mK-CjdItaO16mmowi039Pw89kHAYbjLtT2mO4
 

Why can’t they give weather forecasts better as well .

Yeah but throwing darts at a board to pick stocks is still the best route.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/random-darts-beat-hedge-fund-stars-again-2019-06-26

[STILL N OF PIKE]

9 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Definitely agree that it's pretty easy for politicians and the media to build whatever consensus they desire. That's why it is vitally important that we fiercely protect free speech rights and other freedoms. Amazing how quickly this virus has led to a large number of people willingly turning themselves into shackled serfs of the government.

you know ...I think everyone goes thru their own Personal battles ..with stress management and if life is stressful due to a multitude of factors (especially) this year ..many are just trying to keep it together .. the last thing on a list of priorities is wanting to imagine we are being subtly bent over for anything other than our “own safety”.

There really is not a compelling pain/pleasure axis trade off to go down that path wondering... when most people are doing the best they can to keep their job , their relationship , their kids on a path for success , balancing some needed relaxation (Tv / drinking / edible ) downtime that it’s not “worth it “ to go wonder if on top of all that , if they are being screwed by a entity to big for them to fight . 
 

But this does create less resistance to any corporation / entity /etc  focused on growing their wealth and influence thru spinning things as “trust me , I’m hear to help ...in fact I have some great ideas as to what will be best “

[Typhoon Tip]

Kids are very adaptive though - at least they/we have that going for them.  Not in all cases, but by and large, ...it's why they can roll down a hill on purpose for fun, when/if an adult twice their age engages in that act it is usually unintended and may earn 'em a stint in traction. Lol, ..but in mentality they have neural plasticity until 21 years of age ( ~ ) that embarrasses the best of adult learners.

You got to go back and put yourself into a mindful perspective, in its proper place in history.   Perhaps all things being equal - or not .. hate that f'n saying - if we are to add in adaptability on one side of the scale ( to off set if not ameliorate damages perceived for these recent 18 months of disruption), and then on the other side of the scale ... add unknown death toll

Ah.

It may be worth it to consider a broader weighting on either side of balancing when 'proper' historical perspective is considered. Society was charged with finding the best course of action ...maybe they didn't. Maybe not as bad? But keep in mind, when this first came on the seen ... I used the expression recently "soft apocalypse" and I think in retrospect, those proportions actually fit for what was  going on in the earlier era of this.

No, this was not a Dino-ending comet streak across the heavens, nor a CRB from deep field astronomy so powerful that in a flash, it wipes out all biota living within a mile of the planetary lithosphere ... It wasn't something of a truly 'hard' or immediate population correction event.  It really was a slow moving unknown mortality wave -

That's scary for one - even for 'adulting.'  But all bravery conferred, it puts any decision making apparatus of any era ..regardless of political this or competency that, under extreme duress.  Stop the mortality first. December 2019 at the National Security research Division of the Pentagon ... that may have been the top priority - or what/where/whomever was panicking -  ... in doing so, probably was a recourse that was paramount at the time.  "Once we get ahead of this thing....," then we'll dust off and deal with the slower moving casualties later.

We are here now, later. And questioning that judgement -  ...I mean I'm not trying argumentative, but it does carry a soupcon op for 'hind-sight is 20-20' 

I guess this was going to be a learning curve for humanity.  It's the first time in human history that every nation of the espoused "developed world," actually got on the same page and agreed upon a common vision and philosophy in a unilaterally globular directive that was not for the purpose conflict ( World War )...its really a watershed moment in our evolution. It is...probably something that will take scholars and historians a few decades or whatever to formally declare ... but, in using technology the way we have as a total unity, it really is one of the greatest achievements of human kind.  I think a generation of children who are adaptable ( in general...there are always exceptions), will probably be alright in the long run - we hope.  Maybe all this is has to be part of that trajectory -

[PhineasC]

6 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

you know ...I think everyone goes thru their own Personal battles ..with stress management and if life is stressful due to a multitude of factors (especially) this year ..many are just trying to keep it together .. the last thing on a list of priorities is wanting to imagine we are being subtly bent over for anything other than our “own safety”.

There really is not a compelling pain/pleasure axis trade off to go down that path wondering... when most people are doing the best they can to keep their job , their relationship , their kids on a path for success , balancing some needed relaxation (Tv / drinking / edible ) downtime that it’s not “worth it “ to go wonder if on top of all that , if they are being screwed by a entity to big for them to fight . 

The thing is...these people you describe who are too exhausted and overwhelmed to worry about massive govt overreach seem to always get a burst of fervent, almost religious energy directed at anyone who speaks out against govt serfdom and societal paranoia over COVID. They become relentlessly aggressive, in fact.

[MJO812]

RIP DMX

[weathafella]

3 hours ago, PhineasC said:

We are looking forward to seeing you all again out here...

I don’t know about anyone else but I’ve taken the approach of caution but not to an unnecessary level.

[PhineasC]

Just now, weathafella said:

I don’t know about anyone else but I’ve taken the approach of caution but not to an unnecessary level.

That's the best approach. I have just been chuckling when people say they got their "jabs" so now they can emerge into society again and travel, eat out, shop, etc. As if that stuff hasn't still been going on in many places without interruption since this whole thing started. The world kept moving, it didn't stop to wait for those who are too scared to get a haircut to come outside again.

It cracks me up to see the reaction from people when I tell them planes and airports are routinely packed just like the old days. They can't believe it. Same for restaurants.

[Ginx snewx]

2 hours ago, weatherwiz said:

I absolutely agree with this. 

Another big challenge we face too is how long "immunity" lasts and it's because it varies from individual-to-individual (speaking about those who have had COVID). With the vaccines that information is unclear as well, but the idea seems to be upwards of 6-months (at least for Moderna). 

What's really hurting things too I think is there is no consistency in vaccine rollout or guidelines in terms of who's eligible across the country...it's different from state-to-state. 

I'm kinda stunned here in CT we've been hovering between 3-5% positivity rate and for the most part have seen an uptick in hospitalizations despite our impressive rollout. I think what should have happened for rollout was

1) Do 65+ plus essential healthcare, school teachers, or most at risk

2) Then do 16-30 since that age group seems to be responsible for the majority of spread.

This next month will really tell us everything...if we really don't see a significant drop off by mid-May...then something isn't right. Hopefully some boosters will be created which can help with some of the newer variants which seem to be driving things 

Maybe it’s the tests being too sensitive?

[Ginx snewx]

Just now, PhineasC said:

That's the best approach. I have just been chuckling when people say they got their "jabs" so now they can emerge into society again and travel, eat out, shop, etc. As if that stuff hasn't still been going on in many places without interruption since this whole thing started. The world kept moving, it didn't stop to wait for those who are too scared to get a haircut to come outside again.

It cracks me up to see the reaction from people when I tell them planes and airports are routinely packed just like the old days. They can't believe it. Same for restaurants.

I have been cautious but not a crowd person anyways. Missed baseball and indoor lacrosse but that wasn’t my choice. 

[MJO812]

 

[HIPPYVALLEY]

Boom!   At least they had warning it was gonna' blow.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/09/americas/st-vincent-volcano-eruption/index.html

[STILL N OF PIKE]

2 hours ago, weatherwiz said:

I absolutely agree with this. 

Another big challenge we face too is how long "immunity" lasts and it's because it varies from individual-to-individual (speaking about those who have had COVID). With the vaccines that information is unclear as well, but the idea seems to be upwards of 6-months (at least for Moderna). 

What's really hurting things too I think is there is no consistency in vaccine rollout or guidelines in terms of who's eligible across the country...it's different from state-to-state. 

I'm kinda stunned here in CT we've been hovering between 3-5% positivity rate and for the most part have seen an uptick in hospitalizations despite our impressive rollout. I think what should have happened for rollout was

1) Do 65+ plus essential healthcare, school teachers, or most at risk

2) Then do 16-30 since that age group seems to be responsible for the majority of spread.

This next month will really tell us everything...if we really don't see a significant drop off by mid-May...then something isn't right. Hopefully some boosters will be created which can help with some of the newer variants which seem to be driving things 

I Think the bigger key will be hospitalization rates , you have to consider ..given the initial vaccine claims ..that we could have moderate case loads for years but hospitalization rates that are equal to “the flu” or anything else that we manage . It seems that we are counting on this .

[MJO812]

Getting my Moderna shot tomorrow.  Hopefully no side effects occur.

[weatherwiz]

16 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Maybe it’s the tests being too sensitive?

This! This is a fantastic point and something not talked about often. But that is a huge problem. Some of these tests out there are extremely sensitive and result in false positives. A month or two ago, I was listening to a doctor on the radio (or maybe it was something I read from a doctor), but they were explaining that some of these tests are so sensitive they are returning false positives. Something to the idea that even if they hint at a trace of the virus it comes back positive...which can be very misleading. 

There is a difference between having traces of virus in you and having levels high enough to exhibit symptoms and be able to spread. Our bodies are constantly being attacked by viruses daily...I'm sure if we got tested daily for something the majority of us would test positive for something. 

But this goes to say...how many of these daily cases are actually anything? Let's look at sports for example...outside of the Vancouver Canucks situation (which they are the culprit of the Brazilian variant) look how many athletes have tested positive and never exhibited symptoms (now that's not to say they can't spread it) or it turned out they were false positives. Now thing of the population size of athletes vs. the entire country. 

3 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

I Think the bigger key will be hospitalization rates , you have to consider ..given the initial vaccine claims ..that we could have moderate case loads for years but hospitalization rates that are equal to “the flu” or anything else that we manage . It seems that we are counting on this .

This is certainly key...and with this...it is a little on the concerning side to see hospitalizations continue to increase across many states...even serious/critical conditions numbers have risen. Hell, even here in Connecticut, we have seen a daily increase just about every day over the past 3-weeks...maybe 2 or 3 days where the number dropped. 

[PhineasC]

3 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

Getting my Moderna shot tomorrow.  Hopefully no side effects occur.

Hard to say.

I haven't seen much of a pattern with people I know. Some who seemed like they would really be susceptible to reactions are fine, and then others who never have health issues are laid out for days by the vaccine with all sort of weird side effects.

I am guessing those with strong immune systems are affected a lot more than those with weak immune systems. You can't usually look at someone and know how their immune system is doing, of course. 

[PhineasC]

14 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

I Think the bigger key will be hospitalization rates , you have to consider ..given the initial vaccine claims ..that we could have moderate case loads for years but hospitalization rates that are equal to “the flu” or anything else that we manage . It seems that we are counting on this .

Are civic leaders looking at hospitalization and death rates? I see a continued strong focus on "cases" as somehow the most relevant metric.

[bch2014]

Just now, PhineasC said:

Are civic leaders looking at hospitalization and death rates? I see a continued strong focus on "cases" as somehow the most relevant metric.

Cuomo has been very focused on hospitalization rates (and if he has a new accuser that day) in deciding whether or not to lift restrictions here in NY.

[Typhoon Tip]

34 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

I Think the bigger key will be hospitalization rates , you have to consider ..given the initial vaccine claims ..that we could have moderate case loads for years but hospitalization rates that are equal to “the flu” or anything else that we manage . It seems that we are counting on this .

Maybe given time ..aspects about this pathogenic agent will be learned, that make it more manageable as a 'shut in' ailment - rather than admitting everyone to a hospital bed as an earlier recourse ?

I know personally four people that have had this C-19.  Two said it was 3 days of couch time amid a total of 6 days of general malaise.   One had a head cold and lost taste and smell for three weeks but said he was out doing stuff in the yard straight through it.  The other guy was worse... he hadn't eaten much in 10 days, and carried on with intermittent fever episodes during...  having trouble even drinking water.  Dehydrated... lost 20 lbs.  But then he was able to start drinking and eating, and the fever went away - he just had a lingering cough that would not resolve fast enough for his wife not to freak out. Heh...so he goes into a med stop, and the doctor there had him on a banana bag IV for a 3-day gurney stint within 45 minutes of walking into the waiting room.  He swears it was over precautionary and that he was on the mend.  

I mean...does it strike you as interesting how the early claims for comorbidity seemed to be adjoined by a host of other unknowns?  None of these four gents had co-morbid anything as far as they knew. Four cases, pretty much unique in each case. It's not like other pandemic agents of past horror, where like everyone has a cytokine storm this, or hemorrhagic fever and bleeding that...   I've heard of few cases where some J. Q. was a marathon runnin,' organic eaten super hero... ends up intubated in ICU, with last rites murmuring off to the side only interrupted by the whimpering of wife's immeasurable pain...  Guy miraculously comes back against the odds but point being, it seems evident that there's something else peculiar about who/how ..what is needed at the individual level for this thing to be very dangerous. Genetics...blood type.. pissed off god ..who knows.  And it's probably more like comorbidity only plays a role ... but just plays role.   Maybe if science/medicine can figure out that who/how and what, this becomes more like a stay-in ordeal because they'll know if you have the X-factor that puts you in deep shit.

Also ... I was reading that many of these things tend to evolve toward a less injurious strain given time.  It makes sense biologically ... it doesn't make a lot a sense for an illness to ultimately kill the host before it has a chance to transmit its descendancy

[tamarack]

1 hour ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

Ever since a TV and a radio convinced the public it was “ok” to set on fire and kill hundreds of thousands  of innocent women and children in Japan (who had zero part in Pearl Harbor) , this was nothing . I don’t see that being topped .

I'd never try to defend firebombing, whether in Japan or Germany or anywhere.  However, "innocent" has gradations.  On another forum a former missionary to Japan (early 1980s thru late 2010s) met elderly men who when 10-12 y.o. were being trained (with wooden "practice" weapons) to help defend against the expected Allied invasion of the Home Islands.  Forced by leaders of the (then) militaristic society, of course.  Again, that's a topic that could generate forum-busting volumes of comments.

[weatherwiz]

Where things are really getting out of control is India...pretty ugly there.

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

So here’s a question... when do you stop mass testing for this? Because you can still get it after vaccination.

You could probably keep running on this hamster wheel indefinitely if you wanted too

[weathafella]

6 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

So here’s a question... when do you stop mass testing for this? Because you can still get it after vaccination.

You could probably keep running on this hamster wheel indefinitely if you wanted too

The way it seems is the chances of a severe case once vaccinated is very low (MI notwithstanding).  So logically that should be a reasonable factor in places not testing so often.   

[kdxken]

59 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Hard to say.

I haven't seen much of a pattern with people I know. Some who seemed like they would really be susceptible to reactions are fine, and then others who never have health issues are laid out for days by the vaccine with all sort of weird side effects.

I am guessing those with strong immune systems are affected a lot more than those with weak immune systems. You can't usually look at someone and know how their immune system is doing, of course. 

Yeah  doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it. Most people I know had no problem at all. The two that did get sick told me it was like a horrible hangover.

[PhineasC]

11 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

So here’s a question... when do you stop mass testing for this? Because you can still get it after vaccination.

You could probably keep running on this hamster wheel indefinitely if you wanted too

That's the plan. They can bring COVID back whenever convenient to shut down dissent, close businesses, and restrict travel.

Hell, they can probably just do that for the flu now. 

[PhineasC]

16 minutes ago, weatherwiz said:

Where things are really getting out of control is India...pretty ugly there.

Deaths, or just cases?

[weatherwiz]

5 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Deaths, or just cases?

Predominately cases although you have to think the death numbers there are much higher than what's being reported but it looks like deaths are back on the rise. Looks like they're headed in a direction which will be the worst for them thus far (both cases and deaths).