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Jan 31st - 33rd Storm Obs and Disco like it's 1979


Bob Chill
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2 minutes ago, mattie g said:

We’ve discussed it extensively (ad nauseam, really) in the past few days, too.

;)

Yeah this is not a new thing. Pretty normal in WAA events with cold in place but relaxing, and ofc there are additional issues with the transfer to the coastal.

If anyone is surprised that this will not be a pure snow event almost everywhere, they have probably spent way too much time gawking at dumb snow maps.

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Just my opinion and memory but until the current primary has begun the process of the transfer, meso's are prob not the first or second choice for which model is most likely right. Think about how much atmospheric heavy lifting happens before the primary is the coastal. Isn't it more than possible that the mesos would amplify the inherent math errors? Mesos are def very valuable for part 1 now. Prob the first choice at this point. Second part? Idk man. I wouldnt hang my hat or worry about any outcome for part 2. I had the same thoughts with the rgem. I mean yea, it was a weenie on molly run but it's still a meso and there's still a whole lot of big time stuff that needs to happen first. 

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3 minutes ago, high risk said:

NAM nest at the end of its run looks notably better than the parent.     

Not saying much. If the NAM is remotely right, it will be a pretty large fail with the rest of numerical guidance. Hopefully it's not on to something for everyone's sake. It's pretty crap until almost the PA turnpike 

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2 minutes ago, mattie g said:

Storm escapes to the NE on the NAM - no real deform to speak of -  it the WAA was pretty money. Not particularly concerned about it at that range.

I mean at this point, it looks like we need to abandon the CCB idea, at least down here.   Seems like good news from @high risk  re: the NAM nest...so a wash over all.  WAA it is!

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2 minutes ago, MillvilleWx said:

Not saying much. If the NAM is remotely right, it will be a pretty large fail with the rest of numerical guidance. Hopefully it's not on to something for everyone's sake. It's pretty crap until almost the PA turnpike 

Is it even conceivable the NAM can out forecast a blend of superior models and ensembles at this juncture ?

 

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1 minute ago, stormtracker said:

I mean at this point, it looks like we need to abandon the CCB idea, at least down here.   Seems like good news from @high risk  re: the NAM nest...so a wash over all.  WAA it is!

Thats been my feeling all along. Give me the easy snow and anything else is a bonus. You get almost 7 from the waa this run. Nothing to be pissed about for sure. 

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Just now, stormtracker said:

Even if we had to wait until 0z RGEM, it's gonna come down from this morning's ridiculous solution.  Re-adjust your expectations and Enjoy your 4-7 dude

Right. It will literally never be like that again. Was mostly asking to see how much it would walk it back in terms of set-up. Guess we will know soon. 

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The NAM unfortunately was a big harbringer with the Dec storm, so it could be right about the dry slot placement. Fortunately the WAA portion of the event looks pretty good... QPF is usually a bit overdone in those since it starts as virga and the models don't quite pick up on the lack of BL moisture (and the fact the column will generally saturate more gradually in isentropic ascent), but still I think 3-5 (my initial guess) might be conservative and we could be looking at 4-6 from that. Unfortunately with that dry slot and NEwrd displacement of the CCB we would be lucky to pick another 1-2 in showers after that. But if I can get 5-7 event total, with limited melting/compaction that is a big win given recent history.

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4 minutes ago, MillvilleWx said:

Not saying much. If the NAM is remotely right, it will be a pretty large fail with the rest of numerical guidance. Hopefully it's not on to something for everyone's sake. It's pretty crap until almost the PA turnpike 

Well at least we have history on our side, in that the when the nam is solo it usually flips. I like at @Bob Chill comment on the transfer possibly being an issue for meso’s to handle such a complicated transfer. Either before or after that is good for frontogenisis and banding, but the middle of this process sometimes leaves them bewildered. I mean, one meso (rgem) has 30+” and the other has 11”, lol. Someone’s not right

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Watch into warning here just now -

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
National Weather Service Mount Holly NJ
344 PM EST Sat Jan 30 2021

DEZ001-MDZ012-015-019-310945-
/O.UPG.KPHI.WS.A.0001.210131T1100Z-210202T1100Z/
/O.NEW.KPHI.WS.W.0001.210131T1200Z-210202T1500Z/
New Castle-Kent MD-Queen Annes-Talbot-
Including the cities of Wilmington, Chestertown, Centreville,
and Easton
344 PM EST Sat Jan 30 2021

...WINTER STORM WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 7 AM SUNDAY TO 10 AM EST
TUESDAY...

* WHAT...Heavy mixed precipitation expected. Total snow
  accumulations of 5 to 8 inches and ice accumulations of around
  one tenth of an inch. Winds gusting as high as 35 mph.

 

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1 hour ago, psuhoffman said:

@Bob Chill it will sting some of the capture is late and the ccb misses. But note as this amps up so has the WAA the last few runs. So even without getting crushed by the CCB the DC area is still looking at a 6-10” snowstorm and that’s if they mostly get screwed which is probably about what it would have been if we got a more suppressed weaker solution.  So imo 6-10” with the potential to get 20” if we get lucky with the ccb is better then a suppressed weaker wave where we get maybe 6-12 but there is no hecs upside. But I think some let their perception be effected by the “who gets the most” game. They feel better about 8” if they are the Jack v a 10” storm where somewhere else got 30”.  I get it. Envy is a real thing lol.  But I always will take my chances on a more amped up storm with bigger upside. These kinds of setups don’t come along that often why be conservative. Our snow climo sucks and it mostly boom or bust so let’s go for boom every chance we get imo. 

I havent tracked this threat anywhere in the same universe as you and others here but I did start watching closer on Tues. I knew quickly what kind of storm it is and yard potential. For pt 1 my fear was the typical lose dynamics during transfer and having a repeat of pt 1 for a march storm we dont talk about due to ptsd. Looks like that's almost off the table but never know until you know. 

Pt 2 is fraught with peril for anyone south of I70 no matter what. It's been proven that way too many times. I was surprised you worried about getting fringed honeslty. That would be an anomaly just like the nova jacks earier this week. I was almost sure that wouldnt happen just like I was sure you should be the last person to be worried about being too far north. I figured climo would prevail and it seems to be doing just that. I dont have big expectations because memory tells me it's unlikely just like all other hyrbid transfers. I expect a good storm but I've burned through some luck in jan 2016 and jan 2019. I'll take my middle of the pack total ad be happy. 

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