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Feb Long Range Discussion (Day 3 and beyond) - MERGED


WinterWxLuvr
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29 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Anyone ever wondered what would happen if we got the western N American pattern of 1994 but with a -NAO.  We might be about to find out. 

94 was a huge fail. Topper Shutt literally said on the 11pm news that they sent weather balloons up and it was going to be snow. 12 inches. 5 minutes later...i hear sleet pellets and thats all it did for that storm. 5 inches of sleet while Newwark, NJ got 20 plus. 

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When's the last time you saw this in the LWX zones?

 

Zone Forecast Product
National Weather Service Baltimore MD/Washington DC
343 PM EST Mon Feb 8 2021

DCZ001-VAZ054-090000-
District of Columbia-Arlington/Falls Church/Alexandria-
Including the cities of Washington, Arlington, Alexandria,
and Falls Church
343 PM EST Mon Feb 8 2021

.REST OF THIS AFTERNOON...Mostly sunny. Highs in the upper 30s.
South winds around 5 mph.
.TONIGHT...Cloudy. A chance of rain and freezing rain after
midnight. Lows around 30. Southeast winds around 5 mph. Chance of
precipitation 30 percent.
.TUESDAY...Cloudy in the morning, then becoming partly sunny. A
chance of freezing rain in the morning. A chance of rain. Highs
in the upper 40s. South winds around 5 mph, becoming west in the
afternoon. Chance of precipitation 40 percent.
.TUESDAY NIGHT...Mostly cloudy. Lows in the upper 20s. North
winds 5 to 10 mph.
.WEDNESDAY...Cloudy. A chance of rain and snow in the afternoon.
Highs in the upper 30s. Northeast winds around 5 mph. Chance of
precipitation 50 percent.
.WEDNESDAY NIGHT...Snow. Lows in the lower 30s. Chance of snow
90 percent.
.THURSDAY...Snow. Highs in the mid 30s. Chance of snow
90 percent.
.THURSDAY NIGHT...Snow and freezing rain likely. Lows in the
upper 20s. Chance of precipitation 70 percent.
.FRIDAY...Freezing rain likely. Highs in the mid 30s. Chance of
precipitation 70 percent.
.FRIDAY NIGHT...Mostly cloudy. Lows in the lower 20s.
.SATURDAY...Mostly cloudy with a chance of snow. Highs in the
lower 30s. Chance of snow 40 percent.
.SATURDAY NIGHT...Mostly cloudy with a chance of snow and
freezing rain. Lows in the mid 20s. Chance of precipitation
50 percent.
.SUNDAY...Partly sunny with a chance of snow, rain and freezing
rain. Highs in the mid 30s. Chance of precipitation 50 percent.
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23 minutes ago, Ji said:

94 was a huge fail. Topper Shutt literally said on the 11pm news that they sent weather balloons up and it was going to be snow. 12 inches. 5 minutes later...i hear sleet pellets and thats all it did for that storm. 5 inches of sleet while Newwark, NJ got 20 plus. 

Remember it very well! Sleet bomb it was! Looked like sand when the salt and sand was on the sleet. Nasty stuff.

 

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1 minute ago, psurulz said:

I'm a newbie and don't understand how the storm on the 14th is allowed to cut rather than get forced under the block?

Someone with actual weather expertise can probably explain this better than I can, but I believe this giant 500mb feature is the culprit. Our storm rounds that through the Great Lakes, while in the previous run, it was positioned a bit further south and east, so when the storm came round, it was in a better spot for us (still was only an ice storm though).gfs_z500_vort_us_fh114-144.thumb.gif.1db5dd0504667f787854664aae6376a2.gif

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Just now, baltosquid said:

Someone with actual weather expertise can probably explain this better than I can, but I believe this giant 500mb feature is the culprit. Our storm rounds that through the Great Lakes, while in the previous run, it was positioned a bit further south and east, so when the storm came round, it was in a better spot for us (still was only an ice storm though).

Check out the h500 heights for that on the GFS/GEFS compared to the Euro/EPS. Those are wildly different solutions with significant effects downstream lol. This seems eerily similar to what exactly happened for the midweek event back on Friday/Saturday when that system was a similar range out. The SE ridge definitely looks like it'll end up being much weaker than it was depicted at that range, so we'll see if this system does the same. I recall PSU mentioning it as a bias at 5-8 days out, but this seems somewhat different with the TPV causing the changes in how strong the ridge is. 

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6 minutes ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

Watch those 850’s come down as we go forward. With a high like that to our north no way those 850’s end up that high. That’s my prediction 

In a weird way, it seems reminiscent of the Feb. 2007 storm (Valentine's Day), though I am pretty sure the evolution wasn't quite the same.  I can't remember offhand how the 2007 event looked in its development.  But what is kind of similar is the entrenched cold air despite a more northwest track like shown.

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20 minutes ago, psurulz said:

I'm a newbie and don't understand how the storm on the 14th is allowed to cut rather than get forced under the block per the GFS

Look at h5 vort or height panels on approach. Think of the spaces between the height lines as highways (it's basically what they are). Then it gets easy to understand. 

The wed-fri period has "confluence" to our north or highways running due W-E. That keeps cold in place and the most important reason we arent raining/sleeting/zr'ing. Dont get hung up on anything beyond wed-fri. If the last week has taught us anything, cold/confluence on the models has been trending better as leads shorten. No idea if that will be the case again but no sense dissecting yet. 

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2 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

Look at h5 vort or height panels on approach. Thing of the spaces between the height lines as highways (it's basically what they are). Then it gets easy to understand. 

The wed-fri period has "confluence" to our north or highways running due W-E. That keeps cold in place and the most important reason we arent raining/sleeting/zr'ing. Dont get hung up on anything beyond wed-fri. If the last week has taught us anything, cold/confluence on the models has been trending better as leads shorten. No idea if that will be the case again but no sense dissecting yet. 

Yep, for the OP; The arrow is our confluence and the zigzag is the ridging. 18z vs 12z for comparison. Notice the difference in the height lines as Bob noted. We need that ULL to be farther East 

ECC32299-3C51-4B81-9AFB-FD5D10F9650B.jpeg

22F0A934-37B0-430D-96D1-DF70C1D597B1.png

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11 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

Look at h5 vort or height panels on approach. Think of the spaces between the height lines as highways (it's basically what they are). Then it gets easy to understand. 

The wed-fri period has "confluence" to our north or highways running due W-E. That keeps cold in place and the most important reason we arent raining/sleeting/zr'ing. Dont get hung up on anything beyond wed-fri. If the last week has taught us anything, cold/confluence on the models has been trending better as leads shorten. No idea if that will be the case again but no sense dissecting yet. 

Thanks Bob and Cobalt for the information.  Appreciate it.

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