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Feb Long Range Discussion (Day 3 and beyond) - MERGED


WinterWxLuvr
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Just now, Always in Zugzwang said:

Well, you and PSU (and some others) kind of highlighted that time period, and it has been showing up for a bit in various forms...so credit where credit is due if we score!

Oh, and your phone needs a good charge again, LOL!!!

Haha yeah. Thing is it kind of happens not in the way I expected, but as long as it snows idc! 

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3 minutes ago, Wentzadelphia said:

The only caveat is if the tpv end up too far west then it runs inland, but I think the day 6 wave helps push the boundary east.

Yeah, that D6 (next Wed.) system hopefully can keep the boundary just south of us or so.  I thought the models were backing off some from dumping the TPV too far west, from some discussion I recall later yesterday.

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2 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

Getting downtown DC below zero is probably like a 6 sigma event now. Double digits below zero?? Like 8 or 9 sigma??

I've lived in Frederick for 11 years now and the coldest I can recall is -5 or -6.  -15 would just be insanely cold. However I would definitely try that boiling water to snow trick!

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8 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

Getting downtown DC below zero is probably like a 6 sigma event now. Double digits below zero?? Like 8 or 9 sigma??

image.jpeg.89d30ee647f379bd49440348315531da.jpeg

ETA:  I'll take the over on those temps...but even still, that's quite the signal for some real cold.  Even if overdone it might end up the coldest (or colder) since Feb. 2015 if this happens.

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4 minutes ago, catoctin wx said:

I've lived in Frederick for 11 years now and the coldest I can recall is -5 or -6.  -15 would just be insanely cold. However I would definitely try that boiling water to snow trick!

It won’t work. I did the cup of just tap water at -22 and it didn’t work.

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I know everyone here is very interested in mainly the snow chances for the extended, but I cannot understate how insane this cold signature is for the entire CONUS on guidance right now. This would rival some of the top cold outbreaks of all time. Even the ensembles are hinting at some historic level cold over the country. There will be lots of squall potential in this setup too with that Valentines Day period that @Eskimo Joe brought up above my post as the most aggressive time frame for it. Globals will not see that squall potential until it's within short range either. Bundle up

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11 minutes ago, MillvilleWx said:

I know everyone here is very interested in mainly the snow chances for the extended, but I cannot understate how insane this cold signature is for the entire CONUS on guidance right now. This would rival some of the top cold outbreaks of all time. Even the ensembles are hinting at some historic level cold over the country. There will be lots of squall potential in this setup too with that Valentines Day period that @Eskimo Joe brought up above my post as the most aggressive time frame for it. Globals will not see that squall potential until it's within short range either. Bundle up

Thoughts on the fact that GFS this past Sunday showed temps around zero for Central Va on 2/8 and Euro did for 2/9 but starting Tue drastically changed that to overnight lows around freezing for those nights. Why do you feel this will be different for 10-14 day?

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2 hours ago, benjammin said:

I've seen video at much more moderate temperatures and it working but the water has to be boiling because it's closer to the evaporation point. 

I got a book that says water solidifies at 32 F.  I hypothesize it all depends upon how tall you are and strong your water-throwing arm is.  Paul Bunyan probably would need 30-ish F water or negative 1-2 C to get ice.  But what do I know about molecules, I’m just a halogen.

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Just now, wasnow215 said:

Thoughts on the fact that GFS this past Sunday showed temps around zero for Central Va on 2/8 and Euro did for 2/9 but starting Tue drastically changed that to overnight lows around freezing for those nights. Why do you feel this will be different for 10-14 day?

The frame work for the cold spell is there, but just has to evolve. We were several days out from any cold a week ago, but now it's inside 5 days for the polar plunge to begin taking shape. There's a lot of consistency on guidance with the result of cold but 5 days ago was not. There was a lot of scenarios for positioning of the PV and the lobes of vorticity rotating down out of Canada. Now we have less variation for the evolution within a 5 day envelope. The teleconnection pattern screams major cold as well with increasing heights over the pole to open the door for cross-polar flow into NA. Once the cold comes in, there's nothing really going to stop it from spilling. It's all about timing the flood gates at this point. 

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11 minutes ago, MillvilleWx said:

I know everyone here is very interested in mainly the snow chances for the extended, but I cannot understate how insane this cold signature is for the entire CONUS on guidance right now. This would rival some of the top cold outbreaks of all time. Even the ensembles are hinting at some historic level cold over the country. There will be lots of squall potential in this setup too with that Valentines Day period that @Eskimo Joe brought up above my post as the most aggressive time frame for it. Globals will not see that squall potential until it's within short range either. Bundle up

The  coldest temperatures I ever experienced was in the winter of 1994. I know that people up north and the Midwest have been through much worse, but being from the East coast, I was not used to it. I was living in Louisville in ‘94 and we had air temps around between 0 to - 10 for about a week. That was after we had a surprise 13” snow storm that ended up shutting down the city for close to a week. No one was prepared for it because it was only supposed to be 1 inch!  The highways were closed around Louisville and they literally sent in the National Guard to plow out the city. It was like lake effect snow along the Ohio River.   It  was so cold in Louisville that we couldn’t even enjoy the snow. I don’t look forward to that kind of cold again.  My parents were in MD, so I know that the DC area was hit with a terrible ice storm a that same week. 

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34 minutes ago, MillvilleWx said:

The frame work for the cold spell is there, but just has to evolve. We were several days out from any cold a week ago, but now it's inside 5 days for the polar plunge to begin taking shape. There's a lot of consistency on guidance with the result of cold but 5 days ago was not. There was a lot of scenarios for positioning of the PV and the lobes of vorticity rotating down out of Canada. Now we have less variation for the evolution within a 5 day envelope. The teleconnection pattern screams major cold as well with increasing heights over the pole to open the door for cross-polar flow into NA. Once the cold comes in, there's nothing really going to stop it from spilling. It's all about timing the flood gates at this point. 

Thank you! Great explanation.

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4 minutes ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

That’s one thing about deep cold. You can sure get a wicked ice storm if you have a high that locks that cold in.

This!! And they can sneak up out of no where too as long as you have a lot of little shortwaves rippling in the flow. Squalls and ice are my two biggest things to look out for during major cold outbreaks. 

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