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January Storm Term Threat Discussions (Day 3 - Day 7)


WxUSAF
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1 minute ago, Weather Will said:

WB GFS, what I said was that the GFS has been consistently showing freezing rain for Monday and all over the place for the next Tues. Wed. Wave.

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Now hang on. The storm that we are all talking about is the storm for Tuesday. Let’s keep the debate fair.

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3 minutes ago, losetoa6 said:

ecmwf-ensemble-avg-conus-mslp_with_low_locs-1597600.png

Eps stronger with the ssw energy at 144 . All looks decent to me 

Not even a single member like the GFS or many of the GEFS members. That pretty stark, even at D6 range. 
 

It looks a lot like EPS has already for the last 2 days at least. 

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Just now, Weather Will said:

I thought how the models handle the first wave will effect the track/strength of the second wave. I am enjoying the discourse.  Thanks.

It does. But we are talking about consistency of models and number of models that support the Tuesday storm. The gfs is alone is all that I’m saying.

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1 minute ago, psuhoffman said:

Ok I’ll be the bad guy and say it...didn’t like the Icon at all. Way too GFS like. Northern wave too strong and wrecks the thermals and no separation to recover for the 2nd wave. Maybe some pity flakes at the end but that was not a progression with much upside. 

Icon 2nd wave was way more south than 12z. thats going to be snow in future runs unless it goes south

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1 minute ago, Ji said:

Icon 2nd wave was way more south than 12z. thats going to be snow in future runs unless it goes south

If the NS wave holds together like the gfs/Icon show the southern wave is irrelevant. The NS wave that comes across in front of it wrecks the temps and there isn’t enough separation to recover. 
ETA; we would need the southern wave to slow down and allow cold to press behind the NS. Possible but we’re starting to get close enough that major changes need to happen sooner v later. The easier path here is less ridging and therefore a weaker NS wave like euro. 

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1 minute ago, psuhoffman said:

If the NS wave holds together like the gfs/Icon show the southern wave is irrelevant. The NS wave that comes across in front of it wrecks the temps and there isn’t enough separation to recover. 

i heard none of the EPS had it so i wouldnt worry about it......

 

till 1:14am

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1 minute ago, Ji said:

i heard none of the EPS had it so i wouldnt worry about it......

 

till 1:14am

We’ll know before then. If the gfs holds and cmc and UK (it will be within range tonight) joins the gfs/Icon solution we know. The euro would then be on an island and we know how that ends. If the Cmc/UK look like the euro then it’s probably the gfs and Icon on a tangent. 

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the icon gets alot of press because its on TT and has precip maps but its a lousy model from what i have seen. Its constanly spits out solutions that never happen...it will be stubborn for runs and runs and all of the sudden just cave. I trust the JMA more

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Just now, Ji said:

the icon gets alot of press because its on TT and has precip maps but its a lousy model from what i have seen. Its constanly spits out solutions that never happen...it will be stubborn for runs and runs and all of the sudden just cave. I trust the JMA more

I’m just doing play by play not picking winners 

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@Ji it’s still about that TPV west of Hudson Bay. The GFS is elongating a piece of it and phasing a bit with the western trough which pumps ridging ahead of it. The euro is not and actually is elongating that tpv to the southeast which compresses the flow over top and prevents ridging ahead of the wave.  The crazy thing is the difference in that feature diverges at only like 96 hours and it’s a pretty major longwave feature that one of them is handling completely wrong. 

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Just now, psuhoffman said:

@Ji it’s still about that TPV west of Hudson Bay. The GFS is elongating a piece of it and phasing a bit with the western trough which pumps ridging ahead of it. The euro is not and actually is elongating that tpv to the southeast which compresses the flow over top and prevents ridging ahead of the wave.  The crazy thing is the difference in that feature diverges at only like 96 hours and it’s a pretty major longwave feature that one of them is handling completely wrong. 

when is the GFS going to cave?

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9 minutes ago, BristowWx said:

It’s pretty much gone.  Pushed way south 

That’s because of the NS. Gfs still dropping too much energy from the TPV in western Canada into the western trough.  That pumps ridging ahead of it and so the result is the NS wave on top can amplify. That becomes the show. The southern wave has no chance with an amplifying NS wave right on top and in front of it.  The euro handles that tpv different. Elongates it down on top and squashed the NS wave. With that wave eliminated the southern stream wave has room to amplify. 

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