Jump to content
  • Member Statistics

    17,606
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    ArlyDude
    Newest Member
    ArlyDude
    Joined

Dec (Edit: Jan1/..2 ) multi-faceted ptype mess potential...


Typhoon Tip
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Yeah, I was just flipping through TT quickly on my phone but comparing to 18z now it really isn’t any different.  The front piece on Wed/Thu is starting to look like it could be a bigger deal than the Fri/Sat thing if current trends continue. 

I'd be surprised if Wed is bigger. Maybe you get a little upslope after the fropa wednesday, but it'll probably be a mix/rain down here until we get the CAA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, dendrite said:

I'd be surprised if Wed is bigger. Maybe you get a little upslope after the fropa wednesday, but it'll probably be a mix/rain down here until we get the CAA.

We will see. Just a gut feeling I have that tomorrow evening into Thursday will overperform. Only thinking 3” or so. This main storm is basically an overrunning scenario and they are usually pretty reliable producers. Fewer failure modes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ptype maps are showing a mix on the various sites for BML 84-87hr, but this is the raw sounding text for there at 87hr.

Date: 87 hour GFS valid 15Z SAT  2 JAN 21
Station: KBML
Latitude:   44.58
Longitude: -71.18
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LEV PRES  HGHT  TEMP  DEWP  RH  DD   WETB DIR SPD THETA THE-V THE-W THE-E   W
     mb     m     C     C    %   C     C  deg knt   K     K     K     K    g/kg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  0 1000    68                                                                 
  1  950   478                                                                 
SFC  946   509  -2.3  -2.9  96  0.6  -2.6 135   5 275.2 275.7 273.5 284.1  3.26
  3  900   907  -1.9  -2.4  97  0.5  -2.1 164  18 279.6 280.2 276.4 289.5  3.56
  4  850  1364  -0.0  -0.2  99  0.1  -0.1 192  39 286.1 286.9 280.8 298.7  4.44
  5  800  1850  -0.3  -0.4  99  0.1  -0.3 211  47 290.8 291.6 283.1 304.2  4.64
  6  750  2366  -1.5  -1.7  99  0.2  -1.6 227  52 294.9 295.7 284.6 308.2  4.50
  7  700  2913  -3.9  -4.2  98  0.3  -4.0 235  55 298.2 298.9 285.4 310.2  4.00
  8  650  3495  -6.9  -7.3  97  0.4  -7.1 240  54 301.1 301.8 285.9 311.5  3.40
  9  600  4116 -10.2 -10.6  97  0.4 -10.4 242  54 304.3 304.8 286.4 313.1  2.83
 10  550  4781 -14.1 -14.4  98  0.2 -14.2 241  55 307.3 307.7 286.9 314.6  2.28
 11  500  5497 -19.0 -19.1 100  0.1 -19.0 239  57 309.9 310.2 287.2 315.4  1.69

Definite warm layer aloft and close to ZR, but it still looks like snow to me at that point.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, alex said:

Can we start a petition? We need that run to verify. I’m craving the glades! Glade West opened last week but of course closed back up after the rainstorm. Bretton Woods is not the same without the glades... 

oh and I love snow. 
 

 

 

I’m with you..just need a solid foot to get things going.  Jay might as well be hunter without the glades.

#skithewoods

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, dendrite said:

Wow. Nice run right into SNE with the front end. Nice secondary development too for NNE.

Yeah, that's what stuck out for me first thing this morning... the tendency for that secondary -

so much for not having a meso low, huh.   You know ...that did strike me a little dubious before.  I mean a little voice in my mind was thinking it's almost impossible not to have one given the total synoptic structures in this.   To lay in a -10C 850 mb air mass as far S as nearly the NH/MA border just a mere 24 hours prior to the warm front kissing NJ,  yet the models were selling only a vague curved PP around the boundary like that...?  mmm 

So..two cycles, boom boom and they go right thru the meso look into a higher latitude quasi Miller B ...interesting...   The reason I did not mention that before is because I was too pre-occupied with the 500 mb going so far west.  That's strange too frankly - the core of the vestigial S/stream wave that rides up the ridge is so far west, that it almost argues for sequencing through a new wave space to finally get it through our longitude... I just kept focusing on that facet ...wondering if/when the other shoe would fall and we'd just up and lose this whole thing and have it morph into something else entirely.. But, that's not happenin' either...

As it were, this entire thing is ending up excessively sloped in the atmosphere... 

I think now this thread's merit/relevancy has been returned based on what I see... And, we shall see... I'm not like giddy 100% for a moderate ice "event" ..but, I think the light to mod impact mix mess (S-N) idea has been taken off the c-19 ventilator and is breathing under its own power again...

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Probably also more of a symbolic thing ... but, I noticed growing up around this latitude of interior eastern SNE ...over the many, many ...many years ..that icing events between ct-vt/nh latitude seldom entry as ZR.. There is more typically 2 to 3 inches of matting then a switch ... while the shrubbery and wires and tree limbs slowly begin to 'glow' if by day, or prism urban lights by night, the surface of the snow may even accrete enough that you can walk on the lawn. 

We all have our moments that stick out along the time-lines of our lives. They're just curious little nuances along the way that ... you just don't really avail an opportunity to share, so they're kept along.  I remember a calm dusk on an Xmas Eve a few years ago, up in Dunstable.  My sis' in-laws own a huge spread of land.  It was cold. 23 F calm wind, the steam vapors seemed to want to fall from the chin rather then rise.  The trees were still moderately burdened from a glazing event some two days prior, and the pasture's 3" inches of snow sheened the fading light.  I took the moment for a solo walk out there, and it really would have been a crime to Nature's handiwork in any other ambience than cryo ... Almost heartbreakingly beautiful ... and just then, 'goo-goo goo-goo'  , excuse me if I don't know how to spell the sound of ice report from over a lake or pond surface ...but the field actually spoke to me in that same exact way.  I had never experienced anything like that.. As a first it was sort of outre - but since, yeah it makes sense that can happen; the flat expanse of a field of Earth, lane over by a 3" of snow pack  then 3/4" of ice cover, probably would exact the same phenomenon. 

I'm getting artsy and nostalgically ahead of my self here ..still, I also recall so many times, almost all ice events seem to be forecast by TWC and NWS and the local stations, as transitioning to 39 F rain, prior to my education and knowing exactly why they would eventually bust too anxious to erode the cold... Whenever I'd see that I grew to almost expect, ..even getting excited that ZR was prooobably going to last longer than those anticipations ...

Until I grew up and started connecting ice with consequence of no life and no power and well..heh, icing lost much of its cache with me but that's another discussion - 

But this smacks as one of those sort of deals where the ice lingers a bit longer, particularly now that we are getting the better meso expression in these recent runs -

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

Probably also more of a symbolic thing ... but, I noticed growing up around this latitude of interior eastern SNE ...over the many, many ...many years ..that icing events between ct-vt/nh latitude seldom entry as ZR.. There is more typically 2 to 3 inches of matting then a switch ... while the shrubbery and wires and tree limbs slowly seem to 'glow' as it continues, the surface of the snow can sometimes even accrete enough that you can walk on the lawn. 

We all have our moments that stick out along the time-lines of our lives.  I remember a calm dusk on an Xmas Eve a few years ago, up in Dunstable.  My sis' in-laws own a huge spread of land.  It was cold. 23 F calm wind, the steam vapors seemed to want to fall from the chin rather then rise.  The trees were still moderately burdened form a glazing event some two days prior, and the pasture's 3" inches of snow sheened the fading light.  I took the moment for a solo walk out there, and it really would have been a crime to Nature's handiwork in any other ambience than cryo ... Almost heartbreakingly beautiful ... and just then, 'goo-goo goo-goo'  , excuse me if I don't know how to spell the sound of ice report from over a lake or pond surface ...but the field actually spoke to me in that same exact way.  I had never experienced anything like that.. it's just outre - the notion of a field of Earth lane over by a 3" of snow pack, then 3/4" of ice, would exact the same phenomenon. 

I'm getting artsy and nostalgically ahead of my self here ..still, I also recall so many times, almost all ice events seem to be forecast by TWC and NWS and the local stations, as transitioning to 39 F rain ... Whenever I'd see that I grew to almost expect, ..even getting excited ZR going longer than anticipated ...  Until I grew up and started connecting ice with no life and no power and well..heh, lost its cache with me but that's another discussion - 

This smacks as all those almost classically/existential -

We have had other icing events over time, but 2008 while it did not reach my former area of S ORH county/NE CT clearly sticks out. I was working a Ambulance shift and remember hearing Oxford MA being toned out for numerous trees down and here I was 12 miles south and plain rain. I have seen pictures of damaging ice that far south in the early 1900’s but that is it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, dryslot said:

Ha, I just looked at the run, I think i would sell that.

I'm not sure I would frankly ... 'course, I have the biggest ballz of all event posters because I have no where else to go but up in life...heh...

No, it's not unusual for the models to "see" the BL resistance/inhibition to cyclonic/warm intrusion only nearing an event, with more coherency and as I just opined... even the Euro with -10C at BTV over to mid Maine at 850s a mere 24 to 30 hours prior to saturable isentropic lift ...

 ...is a lot of long words to suggest that a cold profile has precedence for materializing out of models when the cold is arriving, not rotting ...  The nascence of this may have been and probably was because of BL resolution ... moved out too quickly - thing is... some of these late runs ... seemed to hint 12z yesterday, bust has been trending more pronounced, have inched the +PP position up N ... backward relative to the modeled total translation of the event.  Subtle but crucially ... that adds more said BL resistance and plus with 850 mb turning ENE-E at your latitudes near Brian and up by you... that means it is moving parallel to an elevated topography and that will force that layers ascent and that's a positive feedback at keeping the lower levels critically colder... The Euro also shows now a better backside 850 mb temp collapse ( -2 to -3C ) on the backside of that escaping middling secondary, which means it may have snowed to ping to upsloping snow upon exit.

It's a fine art ... yup.  But, I could see this thing staying snow at least longer for somewhere between the PF-Brian-Dryslot-Phinny axis of evil  ;)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

I'm not sure I would frankly ... 'course, I have the biggest ballz of all event posters because I have no where else to go but up in life...heh...

No, it's not unusual for the models to "see" the BL resistance/inhibition to cyclonic/warm intrusion only nearing an event, with more coherency and as I just opined... even the Euro with -13Cat BTV over to mid Maine at 850s a mere 24 to 30 hours prior to saturable isentropic lift ...

 ...is a lot of long words to suggest that a cold profile has precedence for materializing out of models when the cold is arriving, not rotting ...  The nascence of this may have been and probably was because of BL resolution ... moved out too quickly - thing is... some of these late runs ... seemed to hint 12z yesterday, bust has been trending more pronounced, have inched the +PP position up N ... backward relative to the modeled total translation of the event.  Subtle but crucially ... that adds more said BL resistance and plus with 850 mb turning ENE-E at your latitudes near Brian and up by you... that means it is moving parallel to an elevated topography and that will force that layers ascent and that's a positive feedback at keeping the lower levels critically colder...

It's a fine art ... yup.  But, I could see this thing staying snow at least longer for somewhere between the PF-Brian-Dryslot-Phinny axis of evil  ;)

If indeed the secondary idea holds, Then i would say yes its game on for here, I just can't but the RGEM yet unless we get others to follow, Now that i said that watch the 12z Nam come in similar.........:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Modfan2 said:

We have had other icing events over time, but 2008 while it did not reach my former area of S ORH county/NE CT clearly sticks out. I was working a Ambulance shift and remember hearing Oxford MA being toned out for numerous trees down and here I was 12 miles south and plain rain. I have seen pictures of damaging ice that far south in the early 1900’s but that is it.

I was 5 miles south of my sister in law who got iced pretty bad, lost power for a week while I was plain rain.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

Probably also more of a symbolic thing ... but, I noticed growing up around this latitude of interior eastern SNE ...over the many, many ...many years ..that icing events between ct-vt/nh latitude seldom entry as ZR.. There is more typically 2 to 3 inches of matting then a switch ... while the shrubbery and wires and tree limbs slowly begin to 'glow' if by day, or prism urban lights by night, the surface of the snow may even accrete enough that you can walk on the lawn. 

I remember only one significant ice storm that didn't begin with frozen precip, usually SN but a couple times IP.  That one event, Dec. 11-12, 1970 in NNJ, produced the weirdest looking lawns ever, with grass blades encased in 3/4" ice and not a speck of snow on the ground before or during the event.  Probably my #3 ice storm, vying with Dec 1983 in Fort Kent, but orders of magnitude below 1953 and 1998.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, dryslot said:

If indeed the secondary idea holds, Then i would say yes its game on for here, I just can't but the RGEM yet unless we get others to follow, Now that i said that watch the 12z Nam come in similar.........:)

I think the secondary is real.. It's in the Euro... It's in less than popular/conventional model types ...they're jumping into the ante, not away...and, it is theoretically sound -

Just imho -

But, it's not a like a 1978 Miller B extravaganza here ... we're talking about modest mid level support for it, and BL resistance just barely being enough ( hence the fine art) ...so, provided no industrial farts act like chaotic butterflies downstream of the Petro complex up there near Hamilton Canada ... etc etc..

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, tamarack said:

I remember only one significant ice storm that didn't begin with frozen precip, usually SN but a couple times IP.  That one event, Dec. 11-12, 1970 in NNJ, produced the weirdest looking lawns ever, with grass blades encased in 3/4" ice and not a speck of snow on the ground before or during the event.  Probably my #3 ice storm, vying with Dec 1983 in Fort Kent, but orders of magnitude below 1953 and 1998.

The 2008 ice storm in ORH was like that....no snow or sleet before hand or during the event....even up in N ORH county like near FIT they had some sleet or sleet/snow mix for a time which whitened the ground a little. But down in ORH it was all "clear ice" on everything.

 

028_downsized.jpg

030_downsized.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

The 2008 ice storm in ORH was like that....no snow or sleet before hand or during the event....even up in N ORH county like near FIT they had some sleet or sleet/snow mix for a time which whitened the ground a little. But down in ORH it was all "clear ice" on everything.

 

028_downsized.jpg

030_downsized.jpg

If only we can get that again over more of a widespread region

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...