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December Medium/Long Range Discussion


yoda
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7 hours ago, Maestrobjwa said:

I find that lower expectations don't completely erase disappointment with an outcome. Last winter's futility still sucked even when it was clear that it was a no-go. However...more level-headed expectations do help fight off wild emotional swings. With this being a nina...I'm trying to just take it as it comes with that in mind (yeah I'm still hopin' for somethin' deep down, lol)

I have a possible solution for you. I recall that when I experienced my first major snowstorm in the mid to late 50's in South Jersey; that was when I first became very interested in weather. I made a half-arse weather vane: learned about clouds, wind direction, local conditions, etc. Of course back then there was no radar, satellite images, etc. and of course no computer models. But I think knowing what is probably coming ten days to two weeks down the road in our area can be especially depressing and tends to suppress hope. Seems like back when we didn't have all the advancements in weather forecasting that we enjoy now, there was a lot less angst. And no, this is not an indictment against progress. So if you must look at the models, don't go past 6 days. Even if on day six, there's a developing storm in the GOM and a cold front is approaching. And just hope. :)

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11 minutes ago, osfan24 said:

GFS is quite active as well, but it doesn't really help how active these models are if there is no cold air.

The continuous,  almost reliable knowledge, that high precip event are going to arrive shortly regardless of any five day period of dry weather has been going on for almost 24 months. 

You could make the case that in many of these high impact events, warmth was behind the reason why we achieved such a high precip in the first place.

Active use to be a good indicator that eventually as we move deeper into winter the wet becomes white, but in this new base state this is yet another association that has lost value. That goes along with soil moisture as well . You can have a trough in the East and it can still rain  in the heart of winter.   

Very frustrating too regarding recent storm tracks that favor areas North of us.  I believe the SST pattern in the North Atlantic may have something to do with this.  

 

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Extended GEFS and EPS both show the craptastic PAC we knew was right around the corner.  But...that look has a notable difference from last year or just a few weeks ago, imo.  Without the monster, stable NPAC ridge this could leave the door open for a PNA ridge to pop ever now and again.  With the smoothed LR anoms, this could be just what the models are showing.  Add in a cooperative ATL.....possible help from the strat and I am cautiously optimistic. 

 VfaaR8K.png

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6 minutes ago, poolz1 said:

Extended GEFS and EPS both show the craptastic PAC we knew was right around the corner.  But...that look has a notable difference from last year or just a few weeks ago, imo.  Without the monster, stable NPAC ridge this could leave the door open for a PNA ridge to pop ever now and again.  With the smoothed LR anoms, this could be just what the models are showing.  Add in a cooperative ATL.....possible help from the strat and I am cautiously optimistic. 

 VfaaR8K.png

With ensemble means you get that zonal look out in time. I know you know this. So with that in mind that slight bit of western NA ridging and the broad trough across the US is an encouraging look IMO.

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16 minutes ago, poolz1 said:

possible help from the strat and I am cautiously optimistic. 

 

There is hope. The look you posted puts pressure on the PV. May even improve the NAM state. And, we have all talked already about how the Atlantic may want to play this year in our favor, at least at times.  

There is growing evidence of a SSWE and even a possible reversal of zonal winds.

Yes we want a weaker PV, not a beast, and yes we want HL blocking, but the eventual outcomes as it relates to our area, ( colder, snowier ) is really difficult to forecast. 

Do we experience a split, where does the PV re-locate to?  We talked about this last year and the year before. Many times other areas of the NH benefit leaving us out of the severe cold and snowstorms. 

Granted, I will take my chances and see what develops in the weeks ahead.      

 

 

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19 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

Early January would be a nice time for this if it happens and we see the pay off. 

 

I think it should be noted 2 things. 1, ssw generally gives the blocking and cold to 2 of the 3 continents, so someone is left out. Also, a ssw doesn't guarantee blocking and cold anywhere. It has to co couple with the troposphere for the effects to materialize. Think back to jan 2019, big ssw early in the month but it did nothing because it never worked down to the troposphere. That was the year the weeklies kept showing this epic cold pattern week 3 onward, while it would of been correct if the ssw worked down to the troposphere, it never did that and well we know what happened. 

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22 minutes ago, tombo82685 said:

It has to co couple with the troposphere for the effects to materialize

Always an issue of timing as HM mentions, and yes coupling is indeed vital. One could speculate this year has a less hostile profile, possibly enabling an increased probability of coupling regarding the SSWE.   Talk remains about the effect of last year's tropical fires upon the stratosphere. Seems the 15 th of this month, and the period just after, is key as to what may, or may not transpire.  

 

 

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27 minutes ago, tombo82685 said:

I think it should be noted 2 things. 1, ssw generally gives the blocking and cold to 2 of the 3 continents, so someone is left out. Also, a ssw doesn't guarantee blocking and cold anywhere. It has to co couple with the troposphere for the effects to materialize. Think back to jan 2019, big ssw early in the month but it did nothing because it never worked down to the troposphere. That was the year the weeklies kept showing this epic cold pattern week 3 onward, while it would of been correct if the ssw worked down to the troposphere, it never did that and well we know what happened. 

Yup. Hence the “if” in my post B)

Its a roll of the dice, but it’s one I’d take every time. Doubly so in this year when otherwise background forcing sucks.

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45 minutes ago, losetoa6 said:

The weekend system has evolved from a huge cutter wayy west from days ago to now a cad setup for New England and possible N. Pa . Curious to see how this effects the next follow up system.  

Eps hr 120 

ecmwf-ensemble-avg-namer-mslp_anom-7839200.png

What does the op 6z euro run to? Curious what H5 looks. I’d imagine with a colder flatter look there the follow up wave might have more room to occur.

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1 hour ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

With ensemble means you get that zonal look out in time. I know you know this. So with that in mind that slight bit of western NA ridging and the broad trough across the US is an encouraging look IMO.

And the very end of the 6z GEFS run looks like this. Western ridge amplifies and sends a chunk of cold southward. I Have seen worse looks on Christmas eve.

1608789600-LliUH31hvaw.png

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8 minutes ago, CAPE said:

And the very end of the 6z GEFS run looks like this. Western ridge amplifies and sends a chunk of cold southward. I Have seen worse looks on Christmas eve.

1608789600-LliUH31hvaw.png

If we had that pattern the entire winter we probably would end up happy when it was all over.

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13 minutes ago, frd said:

Pretty sure last December 8 th this was going up, but I am old and can't totally recall. 

Yes. By this time last year, it was clear we were headed to a record low snowfall winter. This year people are jumpy after having nearly 3 consecutive shut outs years. With that said, the AO is definitely trending in a better direction and while it's been some shots of cool air, we aren't in a sustained 50s to 70s in December. There is absolutely nothing worse than 60s on Christmas in the mid latitudes (well except for 34 and a driving rain).

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