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December Medium/Long Range Discussion


yoda
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Just now, stormtracker said:

Yeah, that's a hell of a storm on both models.  Problem is, we're on the wrong side.   Plenty of time left...and...150 hours

Extreme + PNA on the way it appears. Euro supports it as well. 

Question is the eventual evolution in early to mid December. Inland snow then a more significant event somewhere in the East. 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, stormtracker said:

Yeah, that's a hell of a storm on both models.  Problem is, we're on the wrong side.   Plenty of time left...and...150 hours

Airmass ahead of that storm is garbage. For there to be any chance, we need that northern stream low to bring it in ahead of time. I’m skeptical. Hope for wraparound snow showers. 
 

Chances go up the farther we get into December. 

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5 minutes ago, stormtracker said:

Yeah, that's a hell of a storm on both models.  Problem is, we're on the wrong side.   Plenty of time left...and...150 hours

Ha, that seems to be our problem all too often!  But nice to see something interesting out there at least.

Good to see you Stormtracker, hope all is well!

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1 minute ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

A further east track would do wonders. That track to me still looks suspect. It’s not a common one in the winter.

GEFS has it further east. Marginal airmass outside of elevated areas though. Probably not likely next week will produce for the majority of the MA. Its going to take some time, assuming the AK trough does weaken/retro, to get some legit cold air on our doorstep.

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24 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

Airmass ahead of that storm is garbage. For there to be any chance, we need that northern stream low to bring it in ahead of time. I’m skeptical. Hope for wraparound snow showers. 
 

Chances go up the farther we get into December. 

Yeah, I doubt we score next week.  When we starting needing A+B and then C, we're already out.    But it's interesting nonetheless.   

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9 minutes ago, CAPE said:

GEFS has it further east. Marginal airmass outside of elevated areas though. Probably not likely next week will produce for the majority of the MA. Its going to take some time, assuming the AK trough does weaken/retro, to get some legit cold air on our doorstep.

The precise axis of the PNA ridge is key and its a very subtle feature as you can see if you toggle back through the last 3-5 days of GEFS runs. We want as much N-S orientation as possible. Either way today’s GEFS has us BN for the first 7-10 days of December. Hopefully it’s not a dry cold.
 

Regarding the AK trough, interestingly the extended GEFS has it west of AK near Kamchatka or NE Siberia all of December. That’s a pretty good location for us as it should encourage ridging over western Canada. Doubly so if a piece of the TPV breaks off and heads for eastern Canada as it shows right at the end around Xmas. 

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6 minutes ago, stormtracker said:

Yeah, I doubt we score next week.  When we starting needing A+B and then C, we're already out.    But it's interesting nonetheless.   

A perfect track bowling ball with cold air aloft and strong lift might get it done. The proverbial 'creator of its own cold air!' storm.

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12 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

Fun active pattern for sure. 

Compared to this time last year, we're looking better. What I'm looking for from this upcoming event are a couple of thins:

1.) What model(s) handle this best. It could give us an idea as to what guidance can be trusted more this winter.

2.) Is this going to be a model fantasy, where nothing really happens.

3.) Is this going to be a kick-the-can event where it winds up being delayed, etc.

4.) Will a fluke pattern at the start of the season be enough to actually get a workable storm for some folks.

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18 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

The precise axis of the PNA ridge is key and its a very subtle feature as you can see if you toggle back through the last 3-5 days of GEFS runs. We want as much N-S orientation as possible. Either way today’s GEFS has us BN for the first 7-10 days of December. Hopefully it’s not a dry cold.
 

Regarding the AK trough, interestingly the extended GEFS has it west of AK near Kamchatka or NE Siberia all of December. That’s a pretty good location for us as it should encourage ridging over western Canada. Doubly so if a piece of the TPV breaks off and heads for eastern Canada as it shows right at the end around Xmas. 

Looks good at the end of the GEFS run today. Nice amplitude too- poking up over AK.

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Stealing something from phillywx...

Since 2000 there have been 13 measurable snow events in the first 10 days of December at PHL. Let’s assume that’s about the same for us. So you’re looking at a 6.5% chance on any given day. But roughly even money or a bit better on measurable at in the first 10 days when adding that up. 
 

Given the advertised pattern, it’s hard for me to see that we’re in a worse than climo position. Hopefully that holds through the next 2 weeks.

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4 minutes ago, CAPE said:

Looks good at the end of the GEFS run today. Nice amplitude too- poking up over AK.

It does. GEFS seems to be can-kicking on that orientation a bit, but also making the situation before that less hostile overall. I’d eagerly sign up to take my chances with that pattern anytime DJF. 

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12 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

Stealing something from phillywx...

Since 2000 there have been 13 measurable snow events in the first 10 days of December at PHL. Let’s assume that’s about the same for us. So you’re looking at a 6.5% chance on any given day. But roughly even money or a bit better on measurable at in the first 10 days when adding that up. 
 

Given the advertised pattern, it’s hard for me to see that we’re in a worse than climo position. Hopefully that holds through the next 2 weeks.

Wonder what the resulting winters were in DCA/BWI/PHL when there was measurable snow in the first 10 calendar days of December.

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