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December 2020 Discussion


40/70 Benchmark
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26 minutes ago, Wentzadelphia said:

Exactly. The cmc had this idea last night which is what the euro shows now. Models are having an extremely extremely tough time on how much energy gets left behind on the southern stream and how far south the northern branch drops. I swear each run every model is changing drastically

Yup ... and, like we said last night ... probably have to go on and off with these peregrinations for a couple days, too - 

I mean don't be shocked if say ...12z tomorrow we're back to that separate weirdness again...  The 00z, 06z. and 12z operational GFS runs all have definitively different ideas on how to handle the flow coming off the NE Pac over the PNA evolving arced flow up over the NW Terr. of Canada and really...everything that happens on the 7/8th of Dec is going to come down to that being handled right and uh...heh, we aren't really there yet. 

Some of that mechanics is plausibly even based upon enhancements as the sourcing is deep oceanic basin regional...  That's another thing about this PNA ..the flow is rather flat for numbers as large as CPC ( GEFs -based)...  It may be adding to model discontinuity -

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2 minutes ago, Allsnow said:

Yeah. Usually means a shot of artic air is coming into states. We don’t need a split to sustained winter. 13/14 was filled with jabs to the Pv 

The safest route is little jabs TBH....the stakes are higher with a split/wholesale displacement. It needs to evolve correctly or one region can get screwed.

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I didn't like the look Euro run ' as is ' but ...  may still be molding the clay on that Dec 6 thru 10 period of time ... 

If I had to anthropomorphize the Euro model,... you got a panel member that's sort of holding back while sending in a placeholder ...biding time while it continues to analyze how/why to either go full in, or pull full out - it sees the possibility but isn't convinced ...

I don't like the D5 to D6 transition there ...that appears like the model's doing the over curved deepening it biases at that temporal boundary ... I mean a little - there are worse examples of it doing that than this run... but it does seem to get a total structure there from less input on the previous day(5)

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15 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

EPS looking like the GEFS. Nice ridge axis kissing the coast of western NAMR. 

Really nice dprog/dT again on the heights in the Yukon/AK region. Looks like the 12z GEFS was real...at leats real enough for other guidance to see it. We'll see if it actually continues on future runs. Good trend today though at 12z.

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11 minutes ago, Allsnow said:

Absolutely. 13/14 was filled with jabs on a weak Pv we never had a SSW. 

One could almost argue there was in the spring though ...mid to late March in 2014 ... which, yeah, for the purposes of present context doesn't help the winter of 2013-2014, huh ?  lol

just sayn'

ssw.jpg.dc33e9a06b53f89f833b5a361c20be03.jpg

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Just now, ORH_wxman said:

It's really a different shortwave that produces the 12/7-8 storm that produces 12/5 (or formerly produced it if we're talking Euro/GFS)

Yes, The 5th kind of is just a weak wave that moves offshore, I was more referring to a system of impact has changed from the 5th to the 7/8th.

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1 minute ago, Hoth said:

You know what's nice? Seeing fantasy storms showing up in the models. Last year was so bad I didn't even have those straws to grasp at.

ha, the flip side of that coin says, ' Last year was so good in model performance, they were never fooled by the bad pattern' 

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5 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

One could almost argue there was in the spring though ...mid to late March in 2014 ... which, yeah, for the purposes of present context doesn't help the winter of 2013-2014, huh ?  lol

just sayn'

ssw.jpg.dc33e9a06b53f89f833b5a361c20be03.jpg

I remember March 14 was real cold/dry. We had MJO phases 5/6 (cold in March) and a lobe of the Pv sat over Maine. Lol

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21 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

I didn't like the look Euro run ' as is ' but ...  may still be molding the clay on that Dec 6 thru 10 period of time ... 

If I had to anthropomorphize the Euro model,... you got a panel member that's sort of holding back while sending in a placeholder ...biding time while it continues to analyze how/why to either go full in, or pull full out - it sees the possibility but isn't convinced ...

I don't like the D5 to D6 transition there ...that appears like the model's doing the over curved deepening it biases at that temporal boundary ... I mean a little - there are worse examples of it doing that than this run... but it does seem to get a total structure there from less input on the previous day(5)

I like this description. In my years of looking at the wx models I’ve always been torn on whether each model run should be viewed as a separate entity or if trends actually exist, and like you just said I’ve always this feeling sometimes they’re almost trying balance things even though I couldn’t put my finger on it.

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31 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

I didn't like the look Euro run ' as is ' but ...  may still be molding the clay on that Dec 6 thru 10 period of time ... 

If I had to anthropomorphize the Euro model,... you got a panel member that's sort of holding back while sending in a placeholder ...biding time while it continues to analyze how/why to either go full in, or pull full out - it sees the possibility but isn't convinced ...

I don't like the D5 to D6 transition there ...that appears like the model's doing the over curved deepening it biases at that temporal boundary ... I mean a little - there are worse examples of it doing that than this run... but it does seem to get a total structure there from less input on the previous day(5)

That is the case quite often with the inverted troughs...usually in attempt to reconcile past robust solutions with the realization that the system would either miss, or not materialize.

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