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Oct 29-30 snow threat


Typhoon Tip
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Just now, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Yup. Carry this thought thru the season too. Zero expectations with zero investment. 

I’m not quite as down on the season as perhaps you are Luke(expecting a normal, or close to normal snow season for us), but I agree for the most part with your idea of very low expectations and Zero investment.  

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13 minutes ago, WinterWolf said:

I’m not quite as down on the season as perhaps you are Luke(expecting a normal, or close to normal snow season for us), but I agree for the most part with your idea of very low expectations and Zero investment.  

You can already see the raging +AO effect this faux snower. We can still get to normal snow though in an otherwise crappy winter. Did it in 18/19 when most of our totals came in Nov and Mar. I’ll be in nowcast mode all season...anything the models will show beyond D2 will be fake news. 

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11 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

You can already see the raging +AO effect this faux snower. We can still get to normal snow though in an otherwise crappy winter. Did it in 18/19 when most of our totals came in Nov and Mar. I’ll be in nowcast mode all season...anything the models will show beyond D2 will be fake news. 

Agree.   
 

But that AO can change over time as well...that’s not a feature that is static over the whole winter to come.  Although it sure seems like it’s been like that more than not.  

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15 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

You can already see the raging +AO effect this faux snower. We can still get to normal snow though in an otherwise crappy winter. Did it in 18/19 when most of our totals came in Nov and Mar. I’ll be in nowcast mode all season...anything the models will show beyond D2 will be fake news. 

 

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1 hour ago, OceanStWx said:

Wouldn't shock me to see a bump north today. Ensemble sensitivity showing ~60% of the variance explained by a more amplified system. So maybe models overcorrected flat and will tick back some today.

Not to parrot you're input here but just to add - sometimes we see this in the guidance, a tendency to 'over-correct' during the middling temporal leads.  I mean we all know this.. 

But it is not a fixed timing, either. If a siggy system that verified, originally emerged in guidance on say .. D 10, invariably it probably spent some time if not a single cycle, aborted from said guidance .. usually midway en route, D 5 or 6 out from cyclone birth.  I almost wonder if we went back and scoped out some 'positive busts' that were particularly noteworthy, if somewhere out among the din of ensemble members .. there might have been a version and cycle that did see it - but lost it. Perhaps it was merely too obscured by the mean and/or on-going op. versions stealing away deterministic attention ... 

It seems to be relative to the pattern in play, too.  Like, if some huge ginormous SD event requiring a lot of massive multi-faceted, hemispheric teleconnector domain spaces be involved in it's integrated emergence ..the 'opp correction' interval may be further out in time.  That may be 'geo-physical' in nature tho .. having that many moving parts in sync means there is a 'loud' signal, such that by virtue of that alone the modeling uncertainty as it relates to permutation and time constraining ... it would intuitively push all that farther out -

But this is a middling cyclone at best - tho... some solutions 3 days ago we might have had 980 mb -ranged, plumbing in the NAM at near bombogen thresholds passing ESE of ISP ..notwithstanding. It is possible that we bring it back - even partial is a conceptual win for this present line of thinking...

As an aside, reiterating: it seems we are tending to disrupt cyclones in this sort of 'mid-grade' construction/Norwegian Model, in recent behavior modes.  It may be subtle ..and is not true absolutely, but it seems there are more multi-nodal 'pearling' of low along baroclinic axis with isentropic lift flopping over on the polarward side as events. When/if S/W jet mechanics can overcome the fast absorbing factorization of the flow ... they are by virtue so powerful enough that the low they develop is Halifaxian 2019 crazies -

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3 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

Not to parrot you're input here but just to add - sometimes we see this in the guidance, a tendency to 'over-correct' during the middling temporal leads.  I mean we all know this.. 

But it is not a fixed timing, either. If a siggy system that verified, originally emerged in guidance on say .. D 10, invariably it probably spent some time if not a single cycle, aborted from said guidance .. usually midway en route, D 5 or 6 out from cyclone birth.  I almost wonder if we went back and scoped out some 'positive busts' that were particularly noteworthy, if somewhere out among the din of ensemble members .. there might have been a version and cycle that did see it - but lost it. Perhaps it was merely too obscured by the mean and/or on-going op. versions stealing away deterministic attention ... 

It seems to be relative to the pattern in play, too.  Like, if some huge ginormous SD event requiring a lot of massive multi-faceted, hemispheric teleconnector domain spaces be involved in it's integrated emergence ..the 'opp correction' interval may be further out in time.  That may be 'geo-physical' in nature tho .. having that many moving parts in sync means there is a 'loud' signal, such that by virtue of that alone the modeling uncertainty as it relates to permutation and time constraining ... it would intuitively push all that farther out -

But this is a middling cyclone at best - tho... some solutions 3 days ago we might have had 980 mb -ranged, plumbing in the NAM at near bombogen thresholds passing ESE of ISP ..notwithstanding. It is possible that we bring it back - even partial is a conceptual win for this present line of thinking...

As an aside, reiterating: it seems we are tending to disrupt cyclones in this sort of 'mid-grade' construction/Norwegian Model, in recent behavior modes.  It may be subtle ..and is not true absolutely, but it seems there are more multi-nodal 'pearling' of low along baroclinic axis with isentropic lift flopping over on the polarward side as events. When/if S/W jet mechanics can overcome the fast absorbing factorization of the flow ... they are by virtue so powerful enough that the low they develop is Halifaxian 2019 crazies -

Yeah this one was always a bit precarious with the potential to get shredded. I had replied to Ray two days ago that I was more concerned with that than a zonked system trying to run into the Hudson Valley.

That said, this could easily come back enough to produce some significant winter sensible wx conditions. We'll just have to see if the ULL can gain some latitude without getting shredded too quickly. Obviously yesterday's guidance was allowing this more than overnight.

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34 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Not to detract from this snow threat but that’s basically 10/11 but 1-2months earlier...so come mid/late Dec it vanishes. 

Nah..lag time Luke, nothing hits and vanishes in an instant.  Isn’t it when these indices are transitioning is when we usually(not always obviously) more or less  get our winter events.? 

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Regardless of what happens with snow this is going to be an incredible storm to watch unfold. This could still be quite significant in areas like the Berks...maybe NW CT? I would think though we're going to see some impressive dynamic cooling. Dual pol will be fun to watch with the melting layer crashing. The dynamics with this are through the roof. Also have to think there could be a flood threat (maybe coastal too...have to look at tides).

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