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MO/KS/AR/OK 2020-2021 "Winter" Discussion


JoMo
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23 minutes ago, The Waterboy said:

Gfs seems to be the outlier right now.  The 12z V16 looked great.  Not really any support from any others though.  Odd for only 60 hours out.  Not even the Canadian was similar.  
Let’s ride it for now and hope the Euro has it.  

Yeah, it did look great. But, like you said, outlier. I'd still look for more changes though.

EDIT: The 3KM NAM actually has a more impressive system than the NAM and puts out some snow. 

nam3km_asnow_scus_61.png

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12z Euro edged a bit closer to the GFS on the Sat system. It's having more interaction with the cold air, is a little sharper, and now has mid-30's temps with a rain/snow mix in OK where it had 50's on last nights run. 

Bonkers amount of cold air later on in the run. 

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9 minutes ago, lokee said:

How many confidence do you have in the CFS model. I use it to basically see what storm systems could be out there,

Somewhat useful for long range trends, but not useful for individual threats. 

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The level of staying power for the cold next week is incredible. I think the GFS may be under doing it’s precipitation output later next week too. That’s a decent trough parked to our west with overrunning southwest flow atop the arctic airmass. It doesn’t take much to snow when the air is that cold. If we do end up with that type of shortwave, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a more substantial snowstorm to go with it, especially for areas more toward the western edge of the arctic front. Still a ways out, will be interesting to see how the pattern evolves. 

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I hope this isn't too crazy to post here. The latest development on the models shows a likely 7-8" in 12 hours at Grand Island, Nebraska in a couple days. Messy times on I-80. It's barely a defined surface low, but seems to have a low at 850mb in western Nebraska connected to a jet stream disturbance.

LVyRaY8.png

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All I am saying is that if I have to deal with this much cold, there better be some snow with it. ;) Models continue to be all over the place with disturbances and precip. I haven't seen any consistency from run to run even really. The only consistency seems to be inconsistency. 

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Being right on the freezing line is probably going to be a pain in the butt for a few days with the line moving back and forth with each passing disturbance, until the front gets shoved farther south.

Also keep in mind that when it does get cold, the liquid to snow ratios go up, so less QPF is required for greater amounts of snow.

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I know this doesn't look like much, but when you see what the temps are, this has the potential to be a big headache.

I recall about 4 or 5 years ago here in Tulsa, we had a chance at some freezing drizzle, and forecasters weren't overly concerned as it would be light. But the roads locked up that evening and it was a total mess.

 

1612850400-unWrjuEIKVo.png

 

It's going to be mid 20's with this falling, that'll be a instant light glaze on the roads.

 

1612850400-zMaAtWEbaWY.png

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37 minutes ago, StormChazer said:

I know this doesn't look like much, but when you see what the temps are, this has the potential to be a big headache.

I recall about 4 or 5 years ago here in Tulsa, we had a chance at some freezing drizzle, and forecasters weren't overly concerned as it would be light. But the roads locked up that evening and it was a total mess.

 

1612850400-unWrjuEIKVo.png

 

It's going to be mid 20's with this falling, that'll be a instant light glaze on the roads.

 

1612850400-zMaAtWEbaWY.png


It was longer than 5 years ago but, I remember a similar situation. Going 20 on 75 N of downtown in my Durango locked in 4WD. I knew it was stupid slick but I tapped my pedal and all 4 tires spun. My 25 minute drive home took over 2 hours.

Cars were off the road everywhere.

A school bus got stuck outside my house at like 7:30 that night. I threw down sand and cat litter to help when the school folks could there and my wife was shuttling elementary kids in and out of our bathroom since they had been on the bus for almost 4 hours.

.1-.2 of freezing drizzle in the 20’s is a nightmare for drivers.

 

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9 minutes ago, StormChazer said:

I know this doesn't look like much, but when you see what the temps are, this has the potential to be a big headache.

I recall about 4 or 5 years ago here in Tulsa, we had a chance at some freezing drizzle, and forecasters weren't overly concerned as it would be light. But the roads locked up that evening and it was a total mess.

 

1612850400-unWrjuEIKVo.png

 

It's going to be mid 20's with this falling, that'll be a instant light glaze on the roads.

 

1612850400-zMaAtWEbaWY.png

Its been a while since we have had a good freezing drizzle event around here. I am totally fine with it, as long as I am home well before it strikes. 

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2 minutes ago, StormChazer said:

The Canadian is comical at the moment.

So far Tulsa has endured over 2 days straight of light sleet in the low to mid 20's....and still going.

The Kuchera snow amount #'s are going to be crazy because it has it so cold. 

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Going to be a tough forecast since so much of it has to do with how far the cold air advances and the big upper low over Canada and how it controls the flow as well as any additional little pieces of energy that are able to come underneath it. Also, big differences on when it moves out, or if it moves out, past 10 days.

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13 minutes ago, JoMo said:

Well, that's a big change on the 12z Euro for sure.... The orientation of the big low, and everything has changed drastically since the 00z run. This had a huge effect on cold air placement, precip placement, etc.

I was going to say the same thing. Pretty much pushes all the big time cold air out of Oklahoma

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8 minutes ago, JoMo said:

Much of that falls with temps around/above freezing in AR/OK and much of SW MO, but it's still snow.  Looks like the 12km NAM has a closed 850/700 MB low this run.

Yeah, but by the time it dies down in the evening the temps drop into the mid to low 20's, so there might be some staying power with it.

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